Charlie Kirk shot at (shot?) in Utah

[SLD]

This is the trope going around Facebook. Fuck me. We are doomed.

I mean seriously, he called MLK awful, opposed the Civil Rights Act championed by the Kennedy’s, and called Islam, of Malcolm X, incompatible with our freedoms.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

Whatever the motivation of the shooter this will energize the Christian right.

Christians are under attack.

That opens the door for Trump to enhance his position with Evangelicals as a Christian savior form god.

Chaos opens the door for dictators.

Okay, so here's the deal with that. If they're going to do something they haven't already been doing, e.g. declaring martial law in certain cities, they were going to do it anyway. There are federal troops stationed in blue cities now. They're taking people off the streets indiscriminately. It's provocative. At some point, someone was going to give them their reason.

Yes and no. One thing I heard said on one program this morning, the preacher (I assume he was a preacher of some sort) noted that Kirk was for open discourse and liberal society. "The people that killed him didn't". It is a very subtle detail that they would say "the people", but the intent is far from subtle. The response from the right-wing on this guy's death is out of the ordinary. Kirk was a talker, an influencer, and he is being heralded as a combination of JFK and MLK Jr, not hyperbole, that is what some on the right are saying, what I heard on AM talking head say, not some person who called in. He is being spoken about in religious terms. This appears to have sparked a crisis of faith among those on the alt-right or they are using faith to rise up their faithful for some hostility to be named later.

And we still don't know why he was targeted. But they are feeding it like this is a siege against their lives... despite the targeting and murder of Democrats as well recently.

Assuming it was a rational anti-Republican***, the reasons for it are pretty obvious.

Of course he's being talked about as a religious figure. It's been the same with Trump for a decade now.

With respect to the American conservative siege mentality, that's been around Iran-Contra----at least that was my first experience with it. Reagan didn't do anything wrong and Ollie North was an American hero. It was the now all too familiar elevation of two criminals to saint status.

I admire you for being tough enough to listen to conservative a.m. radio. I sincerely thank you for your service.

*** We don't know if the person who killed Chuck was indeed a rationale political actor. It could be some nutjob looking to get famous. It could have been a false flag operation. I'm not putting forth the latter as something worth discussing at this point, but it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility. Authoritarian regimes have a rich history of engaging in such operations.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

...
It sounds complicated but it really isn't. 200 yards with a scope, whether or not its zeroed to that distance, still leaves lots of room for error. In short, a very basic knowledge of marksmanship would allow someone to make that shot.

Emphases added. I agree with the last part. In basic training with an M16 (no scope, just sites), our targets had a large range with the shortest being 50 yards or meters away and we compensated by slightly downward aim, at the furthest distance, like say 300 yards or meters (don't remember which one), we compensated by shooting slightly above the target. And of course, the rifles were slightly adjusted for ourselves or at a minimum we got used to them which would also be the case here. The 50 (yard or meter) targets were extremely easy. The 300 were harder but not impossible and actually I was good at hitting the far ones. 200 yards out was in-between somewhere, probably easy-to-medium target. Now this was with an old M16 that was reused each session of basic training across generations of recruits and with no scope. Compared to a modern rifle with a scope and a person who had some practice with the rifle, this would be an easy target on a shooting range with such a weapon and practice--the complications being mostly real-life situations, like trying to stay hidden, taking the shot quickly so no one might notice, weird possible angle (not sure), and perhaps wind (unknown).

 

[Elixir]

It could have been a false flag operation. I'm not putting forth the latter as something worth discussing at this point, but it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

Yeah. Cheato didit.
He never should have told Chucky about The Island.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

*** We don't know if the person who killed Chuck was indeed a rationale political actor. It could be some nutjob looking to get famous. It could have been a false flag operation. I'm not putting forth the latter as something worth discussing at this point, but it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility. Authoritarian regimes have a rich history of engaging in such operations.

It also could have been some love triangle thing and I agree that discussing these possibilities at this point is not worth discussing.

 

[Elixir]

Trump to award Presidential Medal of Freedom to Kirk.

More evidence that he had Chucky neutralized.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Whatever the motivation of the shooter this will energize the Christian right.

Christians are under attack.

That opens the door for Trump to enhance his position with Evangelicals as a Christian savior form god.

Chaos opens the door for dictators.

Okay, so here's the deal with that. If they're going to do something they haven't already been doing, e.g. declaring martial law in certain cities, they were going to do it anyway. There are federal troops stationed in blue cities now. They're taking people off the streets indiscriminately. It's provocative. At some point, someone was going to give them their reason.

Yes and no. One thing I heard said on one program this morning, the preacher (I assume he was a preacher of some sort) noted that Kirk was for open discourse and liberal society. "The people that killed him didn't". It is a very subtle detail that they would say "the people", but the intent is far from subtle. The response from the right-wing on this guy's death is out of the ordinary. Kirk was a talker, an influencer, and he is being heralded as a combination of JFK and MLK Jr, not hyperbole, that is what some on the right are saying, what I heard on AM talking head say, not some person who called in. He is being spoken about in religious terms. This appears to have sparked a crisis of faith among those on the alt-right or they are using faith to rise up their faithful for some hostility to be named later.

And we still don't know why he was targeted. But they are feeding it like this is a siege against their lives... despite the targeting and murder of Democrats as well recently.

Assuming it was a rational anti-Republican***, the reasons for it are pretty obvious.

Of course he's being talked about as a religious figure. It's been the same with Trump for a decade now.

With respect to the American conservative siege mentality, that's been around Iran-Contra----at least that was my first experience with it. Reagan didn't do anything wrong and Ollie North was an American hero. It was the now all too familiar elevation of two criminals to saint status.

I think you are discounting the escalation of the imagery and rhetoric. Yes, Trump is heralded by the alt-right as some sort of saintly being, which one day maybe people will be able to explain to me. Kirk was just an influencer. A highly charismatic one, but still the reaction to his death, Jesus, MLK, JFK all being mixed in with him, as well as the attempt to frame the liberals for his death by the President among others, this is at a much more dangerous stage than it has been.

Yes, this movement has existed for a while, but now days, they say all the quiet stuff aloud. That is what Kirk did, he normalized far right extremism with a new generation.

I admire you for being tough enough to listen to conservative a.m. radio. I sincerely thank you for your service.

It is good intel.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

Zuckerberg help me. For the first time in a decade I vented a paragraph on Facebook. It was a description of what Leopards Eating Faces means and I didn't mentioned poor, poor (oh so motherfucking poor!) Charlie, but that's it. Trumptards will be too stupid to get it.

A very appropriate reaction.

Lest we forget:

"I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights." - Charlie Kirk

The "God-given" part of that quote is crap, of course. And the rest of it is, admittedly a crass thing to say out loud. But isn't it implicit in the establishment of the 2nd amendment that the founding fathers knew the basic context to be true? Certainly, they had to have understood that assassinations and gun crimes were an inevitable consequence of 2A, and thus a price to pay for the "right to bear arms". Granted its a rather morbid thought, but as a society, we seem to be OK with that concept when it comes to many things. We seem to think its worth it to have a few deadly plane crashes every year in exchange for the convenience of flying. I've never heard anyone say its not. Or medicines, vaccines and surgeries that can have deadly, but rare, side effects. The list goes on.

You missed the bolded part somehow?

A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Don't get caught up in that shit. It's a bad faith argument they've been making for decades now. The idea that the founders contemplated semi-auto rifles for daily use by anyone that could pony up the money for one is something that's not worth entertaining.

When I was in law school our constitutional law professor punished us for being not being up to speed on the fucking Commerce Clause by forcing us to read Scalia's tortured interpretation of the Second Amendment. He dared us to try and make sense of it.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Matthew Dowd Fired for Stooping.

“who is constantly sort of pushing this sort of hate speech aimed at certain groups. And I always go back to, hateful thoughts lead to hateful words which lead to hateful actions. And I think that’s the environment we’re in.”

 

[patchy]

Trump to award Presidential Medal of Freedom to Kirk.

More evidence that he had Chucky neutralized.

That is to strain the definition of the word “evidence” well past its breaking point.

 

[Politesse]

They aren't sobbing over him being with Jesus, they lost a major tool for the youth vote.

It's more that they've had to trade one tool for another. A dead martyr and a live demagogue are both useful. It's a big country, there's always going to be another Milo Yannapolos / Jordan Peterson / Charlie Kirk to pick up whetever the last one left off. Your youth ambassador ages out of the role eventually anyway, and Kirk was getting up there. But now they have gory footage that everyone saw snd the next spin doctor can use for the next fifty years. This is one reason why assassination is an unwise political tool for a minority faction to use, the other side only loses a moment of traction before moving on.

 

[Elixir]

Trump to award Presidential Medal of Freedom to Kirk.

More evidence that he had Chucky neutralized.

That is to strain the definition of the word “evidence” well past its breaking point.

It fits perfectly though.
How can you be sure Trump didn’t have Chucky killed?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

View attachment 52056

This is the trope going around Facebook. Fuck me. We are doomed.

I mean seriously, he called MLK awful, opposed the Civil Rights Act championed by the Kennedy’s, and called Islam, of Malcolm X, incompatible with our freedoms.

I guess Bin Laden or Solemni were "telling the truth"?

 

[Elixir]

Just saw an image of the supposed “suspect”. Looks like Charlie Kirk.

 

[Shadowy Man]

We seem to think its worth it to have a few deadly plane crashes every year in exchange for the convenience of flying. I've never heard anyone say its not. Or medicines, vaccines and surgeries that can have deadly, but rare, side effects. The list goes on.

Yeah the list of INADVERTANT causes of deaths is very long but assassination by gunshot is not one of them.

Flying a plane requires a license. The flights are monitored by ATC. Medicines vaccines and surgeries are prescribed and performed by professionals who require training and certification.

Never quite understood these types of comparisons to guns. If guns had the same level of regulations and controls that these other examples require then this argument might hold some water.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Saw this on facebook. Must be true.


Crisis actors.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

Matthew Dowd Fired for Stooping.

“who is constantly sort of pushing this sort of hate speech aimed at certain groups. And I always go back to, hateful thoughts lead to hateful words which lead to hateful actions. And I think that’s the environment we’re in.”

Ah, the esteemed, courageous, self-aggrandizing "Fourth Estate."

Meanwhile, the vitriolic fascism of Fox News runs unimpeded 24/7.

Yes Fourth Estate, let's not discuss what's happening in this country for fear of making authoritarians angry. A high profile conservative was murdered, but let's not examine what may have led to this. NOTHING TO SEE HERE!

F'ing cunts. The whole lot.

 

[patchy]

Trump to award Presidential Medal of Freedom to Kirk.

More evidence that he had Chucky neutralized.

That is to strain the definition of the word “evidence” well past its breaking point.

It fits perfectly though.
How can you be sure Trump didn’t have Chucky killed?

I can’t believe I have to walk a functional adult through this, but, let’s get a few basics out of the way first.

1) I can’t be sure Trump didn’t have Kirk killed.

Nor can you be sure he did—although you seem well down the path of talking yourself into that conclusion, based on next to nothing.

2) You’re misplacing the “burden of proof” here, by asking me to accept a premise I can’t falsify, on grounds that I can’t falsify it. Rather the burden is on the claimant (especially of an extraordinary claim (such as one positing that a sitting U.S. President ordered the assassination of one of his own most fervent supporters) to provide an extraordinary level of evidence.

You can’t prove that Charlie Kirk’s wife didn’t shoot him, which doesn’t mean I’m on firm ground to claim that she did, especially with no evidence to suggest that she did, and then challenge you to DISprove it.

3) “It” (the posthumous award of Medal of Freedom) does NOT “fit perfectly,” as you claim. The degree to which it fits at ALL is highly subjective, and wholly dependent on how hard the viewer must squint in order to see it. It certainly helps if you WANT to “see” it.

Trump’s awarding of this bauble fits much better with the speculation that he (Trump) simply wants to throw red meat to his base (and thus, benefit personally, as is always his motive) by signaling that Charlie Kirk is some kind of martyr; thus helpful to Trump’s cause in the same way that Ashlii Babbett has been. Trump is messaging here—the medal is performative theater to show “I’m with Charlie/Charlie was with me” and probably meant to in some way capitalize on Kirk’s death long enough to see a tangible effect from it in the midterm elections.

Seeing the medal as “fitting perfectly” with “Trump ordering the hit” doesn’t even make any sense… it’s a non sequitur. I’d ask you to show your work, but I’m not sure I even want to see what pretzel logic leads you to say that. I suspect it’s more of a predilection for entertaining conspiracy theories—the wilder the batter—than any kind of rational analysis on your part.

 

[blastula]

Coincidentally,

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Matthew Dowd Fired for Stooping.

“who is constantly sort of pushing this sort of hate speech aimed at certain groups. And I always go back to, hateful thoughts lead to hateful words which lead to hateful actions. And I think that’s the environment we’re in.”

Ah, the esteemed, courageous, self-aggrandizing "Fourth Estate."

That is fear of Trump's response. The corporate media groups have been rolling over for this guy, so he can kick them in the groin.

Yes Fourth Estate, let's not discuss what's happening in this country for fear of making authoritarians angry. A high profile conservative was murdered, but let's not examine what may have led to this. NOTHING TO SEE HERE!

F'ing cunts. The whole lot.

Not NPR.