Child labor increased and child wages decreased after India's 1986 child labor ban

[Loren Pechtel]

The easy solution is for the Government to employ these children - by paying them to go to school. Children are not very effective labour to start with, and tend to be employed because they are so cheap that their low productivity is unimportant. So it wouldn't cost much to pay them more to go to school than they would earn at other jobs.

And so the teachers get kickbacks for reporting the kids were at school when they weren't.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The United States
Canada
The United Kingdom
Japan
New Zealand
Australia

Note that I said "under the table", not "child labor laws". You list the US as having effective enforcement--you think those 10 million+ illegals here aren't working under the table?!?!

 

[bilby]

The easy solution is for the Government to employ these children - by paying them to go to school. Children are not very effective labour to start with, and tend to be employed because they are so cheap that their low productivity is unimportant. So it wouldn't cost much to pay them more to go to school than they would earn at other jobs.

And so the teachers get kickbacks for reporting the kids were at school when they weren't.

Why would that happen in this case, but not in the case of any other workers?

Do many employee's supervisors simply claim to management that the workers turned up, and get kick-backs from the workers for doing so?

Does that happen in your office?

If not, then why would it happen in this case?

Are you simply assuming that the worst possible implementation of this would be the only one possible, with little or no auditing or confirmation that the kids actually attended the school?

Why would you make such an asinine assumption?

 

[whichphilosophy]

And so the teachers get kickbacks for reporting the kids were at school when they weren't.

Why would that happen in this case, but not in the case of any other workers?

Do many employee's supervisors simply claim to management that the workers turned up, and get kick-backs from the workers for doing so?

Does that happen in your office?

If not, then why would it happen in this case?

Are you simply assuming that the worst possible implementation of this would be the only one possible, with little or no auditing or confirmation that the kids actually attended the school?

Why would you make such an asinine assumption?

d

There is always the possibility. However your proposal would drastically reduce the amount of truancy. School inspectors doing spot checks would assist. Automatic dismissal and fines/jail against any corrupt teachers would serve further to ensure education takes place. I would not advocate any penalties against parents in most cases. If the parents to to jail or are fined, the children don't eat.

The exception to India is Kerala. It's communist state government first elected in 1957 from then on ensured the poor received an education. It has the highest education level in India. In fact when working in the Middle East the Engineers came chiefly from that state.

http://classroom.synonym.com/did-communism-marxism-flourish-kerala-state-india-19295.html


Education of the Poor
Kerala's unusually sophisticated education system also helped communism flourish in India's post-independence period. According to "Isis Magazine," Kerala's high literacy rate encouraged peasants and other working-class citizens to engage in politics. Once they gained power in 1957, the CPI(M) rapidly expanded the education system. The school system led Kerala to the highest literacy rate in all of India by 2007, but communist control of the schools also enabled the indoctrination of the state's young people. That, in turn, allowed the party to maintain control of the state for generations.

Absence of Sectarian Conflict
Another factor that helped communism take hold in Kerala was the relative absence of sectarian conflict. In the first several decades of Indian independence, many parts of the country were rocked by constant religious and ethnic violence. In Kerala, however, such sectarian violence was rare. In other parts of India, poor Hindus and poor Muslims were politically divided. The divide made it impossible for a single party to win the support of all the elements of lower classes. The peacefulness of various religious sects in Kerala facilitated cooperation among the lower classes of society, allowing the CPI(M) to lead a strong majority of voters.

Persecution of Communists
The final element contributing to the success of the communist movement in Kerala is surprising. Ironically, the persecution of communists in Kerala actually encouraged support for the Communist Party. According to the CPI(M), more than 3,000 communists were killed by Indian police in the few years following Indian independence. The violence encouraged sympathy with the communist cause, especially since many of the communists were killed while trying to secure minimum wage increases and other rights for workers. Many people felt shut out of the political process. Communism offered a chance to influence local politics and oppose powerful elites in the region.


For India I still think communism would be the most effective government to deal with education and removing stigma associated with class.

 

[lpetrich]

Government meddling once again leading to worse outcomes, this time at the expense of children and their extremely poor families: ...

But that makes possible Low Prices For The Consumer, an absolute good whose acquisition justifies even the most horrible of crimes. Right?

Are you really happy that you paid more for child-labor-produced products before the ban?

 

[laughing dog]

No, it showed I understand the written word. The article made a factual claim about child labor laws in general. Which means the entire world, not some sections of the world. Perhaps you should bother to read the article instead of assuming facts not in evidence.

Clearly you do not understand the big picture or the little picture. The big picture is that you are agreeing that poorly enforced law are ineffective.
The little picture is the discussion is about poorly enforced laws against child labor. On what factual basis are you claiming that child labor laws in the USA or Canada or Germany, or Denmark are ineffective?

You're missing the point once again.

Child labor laws in first world countries work because there's no substantial demand for child labor.

You are making two mistakes. First, you need to read with comprehension. The article claimed that child labor laws were not effective as a general statement. You are agreeing that is true. Second, child labor laws in the 1st world were effective when they were first introduced. When they were introduced, there was a substantial demand for child labor. But they were enforced.

And, as always, you think destroying bad jobs will magically make good ones appear. Infinite pool of profits in another guise.

That is pure nonsense. I made no claim about destroying any jobs. I pointed out that your question was based on poor reading comprehension. Of course, trotting out your idiotic "infinite profits" meme is an automatic indication that you are babbling.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

The United States
Canada
The United Kingdom
Japan
New Zealand
Australia

Note that I said "under the table", not "child labor laws".

I note that you said:
Name a country that has effective enforcement against working under the table.

The answer is: United States, Canada, UK, Japan, NZ, Australia.

You have a problem with this answer? Maybe you should ask better questions.

You list the US as having effective enforcement--you think those 10 million+ illegals here aren't working under the table?!?!

No, I do not. I think the overwhelming majority of them are paying state and federal income taxes through the usual payroll system and are then unable to file returns on those taxes on account of their not having any legal status to do so. This based on my personal experience with the 20 to 30 immigrants -- legal or otherwise -- I have worked with over the years. I personally helped 6 of these guys get documented, a process which took almost 4 years in one case; it took almost two years just to get him a green card and 5 years later he still hasn't attained citizenship. He's been paying taxes since he came to this country 12 years ago but hasn't been able to file a return ever.

And the main reason for this is that the IRS are some of the biggest fucking gangsters in this country. ICE might overlook you for a few years, the DEA might turn a blind eye if you're wealthy enough, the ATF will tiptoe around you if you've got pull with the NRA, hell Cliven Bundy can pretty much get away with domestic terrorism these days. But you do not fuck with the IRS. If they find out you've been earning money without paying taxes, it doesn't matter if you're an illegal, a citizen, a three-headed demigod or a space alien, they'll come after you with guns blazing, and then they might just come after your employer, your kids, your grandmother and your landlord just to be sure.

There are a lot of things the United States does not do well. Collecting taxes (from private citizens at least) isn't one of them.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And so the teachers get kickbacks for reporting the kids were at school when they weren't.

Why would that happen in this case, but not in the case of any other workers?

Do many employee's supervisors simply claim to management that the workers turned up, and get kick-backs from the workers for doing so?

Does that happen in your office?

If not, then why would it happen in this case?

Are you simply assuming that the worst possible implementation of this would be the only one possible, with little or no auditing or confirmation that the kids actually attended the school?

Why would you make such an asinine assumption?

It only happens in big organizations. I haven't worked for a big organization since college.

 

[Canard DuJour]

.

How Does Child Labor Affect the Demand for Adult Labor?

Using data from a Mexican schooling experiment, I find that decreasing child farm work is accompanied by increasing adult labor demand. This increase was not caused by treatment money reaching farm employers: there were no significant increases in harvest prices and quantities, non-labor inputs, or non-farm labor supply. Furthermore, coordinated movements in price and quantity can distinguish this increase in demand from changes in supply induced by the treatment's income effects. Thus, declining child supply caused increasing adult demand: employers substituted adults for children.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Government meddling once again leading to worse outcomes, this time at the expense of children and their extremely poor families:

While bans against child labor are a common policy tool, there is very little empirical evidence validating their effectiveness. In this paper, we examine the consequences of India’s landmark legislation against child labor, the Child Labor (Prohibition and Regulation) Act of 1986. Using data from employment surveys conducted before and after the ban, and using age restrictions that determined who the ban applied to, we show that child wages decrease and child labor increases after the ban. These results are consistent with a theoretical model building on the seminal work of Basu and Van (1998) and Basu (2005), where families use child labor to reach subsistence constraints and where child wages decrease in response to bans, leading poor families to utilize more child labor. The increase in child labor comes at the expense of reduced school enrollment. We also examine the effects of the ban at the household level. Using linked consumption and expenditure data, we find that along various margins of household expenditure, consumption, calorie intake and asset holdings, households are worse off after the ban.

https://t.co/VMQxtL0Icv?amp=1

Hmmm... Doesn't this just prove that the problem all along was just poverty.. and not the regulation. India had loads of socialist economic policies in the 60'ies and 70'ies that didn't work out. I think that's more likely a bigger culprit of boosting child labour than the regulation. Child labour is going to happen if people are poor enough.