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Children and Santa, tooth fairy, etc

excreationist

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How do you handle Santa / tooth fairy / easter bunny and children?
Do you
1) Actively teach children about those things
2) Agree with children if they are talking about those things
3) Tell them they are made up if the child specifically asks
4) Actively tell children that those things are made up

To me it seems a bit immoral to lie about these things to children but I guess there is pressure from society to allow young children to believe these things.

So far on a Christian message board all three replies would tell the kids the truth.
 

ruby sparks

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How do you handle Santa / tooth fairy / easter bunny and children?
Do you
1) Actively teach children about those things
2) Agree with children if they are talking about those things
3) Tell them they are made up if the child specifically asks
4) Actively tell children that those things are made up

To me it seems a bit immoral to lie about these things to children but I guess there is pressure from society to allow young children to believe these things.

So far on a Christian message board all three replies would tell the kids the truth.

Well, that last bit is arguably a bit inconsistent. No wait, it's not, because those adults still believe in an equivalent by another name.

I don't know what the best way is. Heck maybe it would be better if such things were never instigated. We instigated them. Social pressure I guess, and enjoyment.

When it comes to handling the inevitable come down, I'd only opt for 'being sensitive' and tuned-in to your particular child. Plus carrying on with the previous rituals, but gradually de-emphasising the supernatural aspects.

When your kid goes to Secondary school is often a key decision point, in my experience. The last thing you want is them finding out from other kids and feeling daft.
 
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Keith&Co.

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When my son was about three, he developed a fear of the monster in his closet. I remember my dad lecturing me about monsters not existing, but he was never in my bedroom with the lights off. The shadow from the street light made my closet look like something off The Exorcist soundstage. So, straight up honesty seemed, to me, to be less effective than telling my kid that teddy bears eat monsters. He slept pretty soundly after that.
Not sure where Look At Me found the plastic sword to stand watch with...

We actively taught our kids about the tooth fairy, Santa, Easter Bunny. Mostly as a quaint little story that they'll eventually grow out of. All of our kids eventually confronted us: These (insert benefit here) didn't really come from (fill in the blank) did they? And we came clean.

I honestly feel that their development benefitted from working out the reality from the observations they made, the clues adding up.

It did put a bit of a burden on us, the parents, because now my kids question everything we tell them.

Not that they distrust us, but I cannot just say "You can't put that in the dishwasher," I have to explain 'because the mechanism will rust' or 'it's too fragile' or 'it's water soluble.'
 

GenesisNemesis

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Not a parent, but if I were to handle it, I would let them figure out on their own that they're not real.
 

Tom Sawyer

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How do you handle Santa / tooth fairy / easter bunny and children?
Do you
1) Actively teach children about those things
2) Agree with children if they are talking about those things
3) Tell them they are made up if the child specifically asks
4) Actively tell children that those things are made up

To me it seems a bit immoral to lie about these things to children but I guess there is pressure from society to allow young children to believe these things.

So far on a Christian message board all three replies would tell the kids the truth.

They're fun stories for kids to help them believe in magic and wonder before they grow up and the weight of the world crushes their spirits.

Not everything needs to be so much of a thing. Sometimes you're allowed to just have fun with children for the sake of having fun (not in a creepy way, though).
 

southernhybrid

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Not a parent, but if I were to handle it, I would let them figure out on their own that they're not real.

That is exactly what my parents did. I still remember how proud I was, when at the age of 4, I asked my mother if Santa was real. She asked me what I thought and I told her that Santa was just for fun and it was the parents that gave the presents. She told me I was right, but not to tell my younger sister. I did the same thing with my son. He gave up Santa at a fairly young age too.

The weird thing is that my parents were very religious and when I told my mother at the age of 18, that Jesus was a myth, like Zeus, she ran from the room in tears. I never felt abused or that it was a big deal that my parents told me that Jesus saves. It just took me to early adulthood to realize that "God is Santa for adults", as one of our former IIDB posters used to say.

Kids like all kinds of pretend stuff. They make up all kinds of shit. I had two imaginary friends when I was around two. I still remember what they looked like, but I eventually didn't need them anymore so I stopped talking to them. They were two little old ladies who lived in my basement. Shakey was tall and thin, while Kookus was short and chubby. I invented them all by myself. :D

There isn't any harm in allowing kids to believe in Santa, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny or Shakey and Kookus. Unlike an angry god, these pretend entities are all for fun and we don't miss them when we stop believing they are real.
 

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Only one I have issues with is a fake fat facial-haired fuck getting all the credit for my work and effort in choosing good gifts. I think the tooth fairy is the only one that I openly introduced. The Easter Bunny just kind of happened. Makes it more fun in the morning when it is time to get the eggs.
 

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I don’t remember ever believing in Santa, but then I had two older brothers so I’m sure any nascent beliefs I may have had were quickly quashed.

Recently I asked my two grown children if they had ever believed in Santa. My daughter, who has always been a realist, said she never had, but my son, who is more of an artist and musician, told me “I still do!”

I do remember, when asked by my kids, I would say something like "It's the spirit of Christmas that's real," which I think they both realized was bullshit. I've always found it was hard to lie to my kids - they have excellent BS meters.
 

rousseau

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No kids yet, but I'd hesitate to lie to them even if it was for fun. I don't really see the sense in it, even if your kid is small Christmas or whatever is going to be just as magical no matter what you tell them. I probably wouldn't go out of my way to tell them these things aren't real either, but if they asked me I would.
 

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We did not ever do any of those. We felt it was wrong to actively lie to your children, but more importantly, utterly unnecessary. We can do "magic" and "wonder" without lying, IMHO.

So our kids were raised on:

Santa: Santa is a made-up game that some families play to create a make-believe that their kids can enjoy. The purpose for the make believe is to celebrate togetherness and the joy of sharing and giving to each other. We also celebrated at about the same time the joy of family and giving and sharing, using the physics of Solstice to pick a time when things seem very dark and cold and our family celebration can lighten it. Also, don't spoil the game of the other families by spilling the beans. Even though I resent other families expecting me to uphold their lie for them. If you haven't prepared your kid for running into someone who has different beliefs, then that's your gap, not my responsibility. I prepared my kids for it, but they're not perfect actors for your theater, so you get what you get, and do NOT blame my kids if they aren't on your payroll. Note: My daughter did tell me that she would have rathered I hid the gifts so she could be surprised on Solstice morning, even though she knew we had chosen them for each other, she thinks it would have been fun to not know their size, shape or number.

Tooth Fairy: There's a clever swap at night exchanging old teeth for gold coins. Can you figure out how it happens? My daughter caught me on her very last tooth and exclaimed, "VICTORY!" She was very proud of herself, but had spent years trying to figure out what tool or device or magic I used to accomplish my task.

Easter Bunny: A fun celebration of the return of nature's growth and newborns and what better way to celebrate that than chocolate.
 

rousseau

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We did not ever do any of those. We felt it was wrong to actively lie to your children, but more importantly, utterly unnecessary. We can do "magic" and "wonder" without lying, IMHO.

So our kids were raised on:

Santa: Santa is a made-up game that some families play to create a make-believe that their kids can enjoy. The purpose for the make believe is to celebrate togetherness and the joy of sharing and giving to each other. We also celebrated at about the same time the joy of family and giving and sharing, using the physics of Solstice to pick a time when things seem very dark and cold and our family celebration can lighten it. Also, don't spoil the game of the other families by spilling the beans. Even though I resent other families expecting me to uphold their lie for them. If you haven't prepared your kid for running into someone who has different beliefs, then that's your gap, not my responsibility. I prepared my kids for it, but they're not perfect actors for your theater, so you get what you get, and do NOT blame my kids if they aren't on your payroll. Note: My daughter did tell me that she would have rathered I hid the gifts so she could be surprised on Solstice morning, even though she knew we had chosen them for each other, she thinks it would have been fun to not know their size, shape or number.

Tooth Fairy: There's a clever swap at night exchanging old teeth for gold coins. Can you figure out how it happens? My daughter caught me on her very last tooth and exclaimed, "VICTORY!" She was very proud of herself, but had spent years trying to figure out what tool or device or magic I used to accomplish my task.

Easter Bunny: A fun celebration of the return of nature's growth and newborns and what better way to celebrate that than chocolate.

Honestly, I think people over-estimate the degree that small kids are actually conscious of this type of thing. They're not sitting there dwelling on how magical Santa is, essentially they're just temporarily fooled into believing something for no reason.

Basically, I don't think Santa or the Easter Bunny has any magic involved at all. Magic is when the parents of kids treat them well.
 

Tharmas

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I know a woman who, while her kids were still young enough to believe in Santa, but old enough to willfully misbehave, would pull out her phone and say “I’m calling Santa right now!” That would get the behavior to stop immediately – at least in November-December. I consider that borderline abusive. Don’t know how her kids reacted when they found out the whole thing was a sham.
 

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Daughter was 3 years old when she noticed that Santa had the same handwriting as Mom, and used the same wrapping paper as we did on our gifts to each other. :D

I answered her questions truthfully, and she decided she liked the 'Santa Game' as part of our holiday traditions. Cool.
 

rousseau

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I know a woman who, while her kids were still young enough to believe in Santa, but old enough to willfully misbehave, would pull out her phone and say “I’m calling Santa right now!” That would get the behavior to stop immediately – at least in November-December. I consider that borderline abusive. Don’t know how her kids reacted when they found out the whole thing was a sham.

I recall hearing things like that when partner and I went to Michigan around Christmas a few years ago. I was shocked as that kind of thing doesn't happen at all in Ontario.
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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You forgot to include the Harlem Globetrotters and Professional Wrestling.

The kids figure this thing out for themselves. If they get around to asking if Santa is real you tell them the truth. I can remember the question from my youngest. He still insisted Santa was real so went to the Encyclopedia.
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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So far all 6 Christians who replied don't tell their kids those stories or they actively tell them the truth.
https://www.christianforums.com/threads/children-and-santa-tooth-fairy-etc.8085383/

Even though it is cute to get kids to believe those things, I think it is still immoral since it is lying that doesn't prevent some greater evil.

Get real. Every person I knew as a child and as a young adult was christian. Every one of them told and lived the Santa tale. That is thousands of christian people.

It's as harmless as going to the movies. Your six christians sound like liars to me.
 

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I hope you all realize that if when kids stopped believing in Santa...the presents and gifts stopped too......adults would still believe in Santa.

If Christians and other believers got nothing from God, what would be the point? It is easy to give up Santa, the gifts were from your parents anyway.
 

excreationist

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So far all 6 Christians who replied don't tell their kids those stories or they actively tell them the truth.
https://www.christianforums.com/threads/children-and-santa-tooth-fairy-etc.8085383/

Even though it is cute to get kids to believe those things, I think it is still immoral since it is lying that doesn't prevent some greater evil.

Get real. Every person I knew as a child and as a young adult was christian. Every one of them told and lived the Santa tale. That is thousands of christian people.

It's as harmless as going to the movies. Your six christians sound like liars to me.
Maybe the Christians in that forum that lied about Santa don't want to speak up. Anyway if being lied to is "harmless" it could still be immoral. In fact many of those Christians in that thread think lying to those kids would be harmful.
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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So far all 6 Christians who replied don't tell their kids those stories or they actively tell them the truth.
https://www.christianforums.com/threads/children-and-santa-tooth-fairy-etc.8085383/

Even though it is cute to get kids to believe those things, I think it is still immoral since it is lying that doesn't prevent some greater evil.

Get real. Every person I knew as a child and as a young adult was christian. Every one of them told and lived the Santa tale. That is thousands of christian people.

It's as harmless as going to the movies. Your six christians sound like liars to me.
Maybe the Christians in that forum that lied about Santa don't want to speak up. Anyway if being lied to is "harmless" it could still be immoral. In fact many of those Christians in that thread think lying to those kids would be harmful.

It's entertainment, much of which, if not most, of course, is a lie. Entertainment which is not factual is therefore immoral and harmful. You could be correct. What is the game and what are the rules?
 

excreationist

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It's entertainment, much of which, if not most, of course, is a lie. Entertainment which is not factual is therefore immoral and harmful. You could be correct. What is the game and what are the rules?
In entertainment people are aware that it isn't real. If they aren't, it can involve a hoax.
 

DrZoidberg

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How do you handle Santa / tooth fairy / easter bunny and children?
Do you
1) Actively teach children about those things
2) Agree with children if they are talking about those things
3) Tell them they are made up if the child specifically asks
4) Actively tell children that those things are made up

To me it seems a bit immoral to lie about these things to children but I guess there is pressure from society to allow young children to believe these things.

So far on a Christian message board all three replies would tell the kids the truth.

A good parent explains how metaphor and myth works. It's fine to tell children that Santa, Tooth Fairy exists when they're very young but fold as soon as they question it. That's good parenting. It might shield them from later becoming theists.

People who seriously believe in God are people who never learned how we use myth in societies and in our stories. It's an impoverished life.
 

excreationist

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A good parent explains how metaphor and myth works. It's fine to tell children that Santa, Tooth Fairy exists when they're very young but fold as soon as they question it. That's good parenting. It might shield them from later becoming theists.

People who seriously believe in God are people who never learned how we use myth in societies and in our stories. It's an impoverished life.
Bedtime stories can involve myth. Myth doesn't require people to believe it is true. Also kids can "play make believe" rather than them being taught that it is a fact.
 

DrZoidberg

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A good parent explains how metaphor and myth works. It's fine to tell children that Santa, Tooth Fairy exists when they're very young but fold as soon as they question it. That's good parenting. It might shield them from later becoming theists.

People who seriously believe in God are people who never learned how we use myth in societies and in our stories. It's an impoverished life.
Bedtime stories can involve myth. Myth doesn't require people to believe it is true. Also kids can "play make believe" rather than them being taught that it is a fact.

Yup. Just like God in Christianity.
 

Keith&Co.

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I know a woman who, while her kids were still young enough to believe in Santa, but old enough to willfully misbehave, would pull out her phone and say “I’m calling Santa right now!”
No, never did that. That would reduce our authority. Our kids behaved because _WE_ would punish them if they didn't. Xmas was not an event to validate or punish behavior.
All holidays were for celebrating, not judging.
 

Keith&Co.

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Even though it is cute to get kids to believe those things, I think it is still immoral since it is lying that doesn't prevent some greater evil.
So, you are, or are going to be, COMPLETELY honest with your child?

Good luck with that.

There is nothing like a small child to find out what 'truthful' really means. And just how often we lie.

We may call it various things, like 'shading the truth' or 'a polite fiction' or something, but none of us grown-ups are as truthful as children can be. Unless we're off our meds.

Like telling someone, "He's okay, once you get to know him." He's not. The fact is, he's a cunt, but you get used to it.
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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It's entertainment, much of which, if not most, of course, is a lie. Entertainment which is not factual is therefore immoral and harmful. You could be correct. What is the game and what are the rules?
In entertainment people are aware that it isn't real. If they aren't, it can involve a hoax.

Christians are living a hoax and they like it. People don't fly around in the sky or come back to life after being dead. This is the great religious double standard, here it's applied to kids and santa, but not to demigods and miracles. Who's preaching out of two sides of their mouth?

Maybe there is a great santa spirit that causes this celebration to occur. Do these christians know for a fact that this is not the case? How do they know? Should they take a neutral position and explain to their three-year-old child both sides of the debate? Should they say we will celebrate santa but don't really know?

If a kid believes santa is real it is no different than an adult believing humans can levitate into the sky, come back to life, walk through walls, multiply food, make wine from water and all other magic tricks. Who's the puritanical moralist and obvious hypocrite wearing blinders?
 

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This thread reminds me of the time I had my wife arrested for fraud because she made our six month old believe that she'd pulled his nose off.
 

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... snip ...

We may call it various things, like 'shading the truth' or 'a polite fiction' or something, but none of us grown-ups are as truthful as children can be. Unless we're off our meds.

... snip ...

But it isn't that children don't lie. It is just that they haven't they haven't yet figured out when they may get away with it and when it is obviously a lie. A three year old covered in cookie crumbs sitting next to a broken cookie jar when asked, "who broke the cookie jar?" may well answer, "not me."

Also young kids haven't yet figured out when they really shouldn't say some of the truths that they do. They may well point to a special and distinguished guest in your home that you are trying to impress and ask, "Why are you so fat?"
 

bilby

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....Like telling someone, "He's okay, once you get to know him." He's not. The fact is, he's a cunt, but you get used to it.
You could just say "we don't get along very well".

You could. But then it's still not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, is it?
 

excreationist

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....Like telling someone, "He's okay, once you get to know him." He's not. The fact is, he's a cunt, but you get used to it.
You could just say "we don't get along very well".
You could. But then it's still not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, is it?
Well they could explain the reasons why they are a c*nt without having to swear. And refusing to give a full answer could still be classified as being honest.

I don't think there are strong reasons to make up stories like the Santa story to tell to kids... it is even possible to be honest about sex with kids. See this video: (NSFW)
https://vimeo.com/27847934
 

excreationist

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Also parents could say to the kid that they don't want to tell them - that is being honest. (I asked a senior worker recently about what everyone earned and they refused to answer. That is still being honest - not open and honest, but honest)
 

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You could. But then it's still not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, is it?
Well they could explain the reasons why they are a c*nt without having to swear.

I don't think there are strong reasons to make up stories like the Santa story to tell to kids... it is even possible to be honest about sex with kids. See this video: (NSFW)
https://vimeo.com/27847934

You are kidding? This is how you think a six year old should be answered when they ask, "where did I come from"?

It reminds me of a story: Little Bobby came home from school one day and asked his parents where he came from. They sat him down and explained in detail all about sex. He sat wide-eyed and blank-faced until they finished then asked if he understood. To which he just shook his head and said, "Not really... Jimmy told me he was from Cleveland."
 

bilby

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bilby

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You could. But then it's still not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, is it?
Well they could explain the reasons why they are a c*nt without having to swear.

I don't think there are strong reasons to make up stories like the Santa story to tell to kids... it is even possible to be honest about sex with kids. See this video: (NSFW)
https://vimeo.com/27847934

You are kidding? This is how you think a six year old should be answered when they ask, "where did I come from"?

It reminds me of a story: Little Bobby came home from school one day and asked his parents where he came from. They sat him down and explained in detail all about sex. He sat wide-eyed and blank-faced until they finished then asked if he understood. To which he just shook his head and said, "Not really... Jimmy told me he was from Cleveland."

Ah. For some reason I can't see the link in the original post.

That video is adapted from a book I remember from my early childhood. It taught me that a man should wear the same jumper for nine months while his wife is pregnant.

Things have moved on a bit since 1975.
 

excreationist

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I don't think there are strong reasons to make up stories like the Santa story to tell to kids... it is even possible to be honest about sex with kids. See this video: (NSFW)
https://vimeo.com/27847934

You are kidding? This is how you think a six year old should be answered when they ask, "where did I come from"?
I said it is "possible to be honest about sex with kids" not that this "should" be used at any opportunity.
 

excreationist

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bilby

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I don't think there are strong reasons to make up stories like the Santa story to tell to kids... it is even possible to be honest about sex with kids. See this video: (NSFW)
https://vimeo.com/27847934

You are kidding? This is how you think a six year old should be answered when they ask, "where did I come from"?
I said it is "possible to be honest about sex with kids" not that this "should" be used at any opportunity.

Is there anything wrong with that presentation? I don't think I was traumatized by it when I was six years old. My only objection (which I still have today) is that the artwork is rather ugly (and VERY 1970s).
 

excreationist

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I said it is "possible to be honest about sex with kids" not that this "should" be used at any opportunity.

Is there anything wrong with that presentation? I don't think I was traumatized by it when I was six years old. My only objection (which I still have today) is that the artwork is rather ugly (and VERY 1970s).
It seemed skepticalbip might have a problem with it. BTW I think the ugliness is good - if it was realistic it would be kind of pornographic.
 

skepticalbip

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I said it is "possible to be honest about sex with kids" not that this "should" be used at any opportunity.

Is there anything wrong with that presentation? I don't think I was traumatized by it when I was six years old. My only objection (which I still have today) is that the artwork is rather ugly (and VERY 1970s).

There is nothing wrong with it. It is just that, in my experience, it is well beyond an explanation that would more than satisfy a six year old's curiosity. It would be more suited to satisfying the curiosity of a pubescent adolescent.
 

excreationist

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....There is nothing wrong with it. It is just that, in my experience, it is well beyond an explanation that would more than satisfy a six year old's curiosity...
I think 6 year old would be curious about what causes a women to become pregnant and how the baby comes out. I think some kids at that age think you can get pregnant from kissing and babies can come out the belly button.

BTW from facebook:
(Bella is 11, Josh is 9)

“ Mum can you have another baby please, I really want a sister”

Me- it’s not as easy as just wanting a baby and it happening honey even when you really really want it to happen.

Bella - can you keep trying and why doesn’t it happen easy.

Josh- Bella it’s because to make a baby you need DNA from Mum and DNA from dad that’s why.

Bella- but how does the DNA from Mum and dad cone together to grow a baby.

Josh- oh Bella how come you don’t know this!!!- you know when Mum and dad kiss ,well that’s how the DNA mixes and if it finds an egg in Mum it will grow a baby. That’s how you get a baby Bella - it’s a bit of a complicated process you know.

Bella- ewww that’s disgusting - you mean their spit mixes together?

Josh- yes silly of course it does

( and my heart was just melting at how innocent they both are❤️)

It would be more suited to satisfying the curiosity of a pubescent adolescent.
They'd be wondering about oral sex, masturbation, etc, and probably know how a baby is born.
 
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bilby

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I said it is "possible to be honest about sex with kids" not that this "should" be used at any opportunity.

Is there anything wrong with that presentation? I don't think I was traumatized by it when I was six years old. My only objection (which I still have today) is that the artwork is rather ugly (and VERY 1970s).
It seemed skepticalbip might have a problem with it. BTW I think the ugliness is good - if it was realistic it would be kind of pornographic.

Well given that the only problem with pornography that I am aware of lies in its unrealistic nature, that seems like a very strange objection.

Kids can't effectively learn about sex from porn, because it depicts highly unrealistic relationships, and gives them a totally unrealistic set of expectations - for example about how quickly a plumber will arrive at your house after being called.
 

excreationist

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It seemed skepticalbip might have a problem with it. BTW I think the ugliness is good - if it was realistic it would be kind of pornographic.

Well given that the only problem with pornography that I am aware of lies in its unrealistic nature, that seems like a very strange objection.
So if a school allowed those pictures to be shown, you think they'd see no problem with showing photos of average-looking amateurs as well? Also why does my wife tell me not even look at pictures of topless women? She seems to view it as a form of cheating. I think she'd even have a problem if the photos were of ugly women. Also I'd say that porn exaggerates the elements of sex.
A Christian would say that that isn't the "only" problem - it also leads to lust and lust is adultery. It is hard to have lust for those cartoons.

Kids can't effectively learn about sex from porn, because it depicts highly unrealistic relationships, and gives them a totally unrealistic set of expectations - for example about how quickly a plumber will arrive at your house after being called.
Well they still learn some things about sex from porn anyway.
 

excreationist

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....Well given that the only problem with pornography that I am aware of lies in its unrealistic nature....
If kids are allowed to see realistic or unrealistic cartoons for sexual education, why is it that normally kids can't freely watch porn? If it is because porn is "unrealistic" then what about porn involving average amateurs that are in a genuine relationship?
 

DrZoidberg

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....Well given that the only problem with pornography that I am aware of lies in its unrealistic nature....
If kids are allowed to see realistic or unrealistic cartoons for sexual education, why is it that normally kids can't freely watch porn? If it is because porn is "unrealistic" then what about porn involving average amateurs that are in a genuine relationship?

I wouldn't watch porn depicting realistic scenarios. What would the point of that be? I want my porn to be strange, in some way. Art should be heightened reality. Even so called "realistic" art is heightened reality, because they've only chosen a specific subset to show.
 

excreationist

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....I wouldn't watch porn depicting realistic scenarios. What would the point of that be?
Something to fap to that is somehow less harmful than porn involving unrealistic expectations.

I want my porn to be strange, in some way. Art should be heightened reality. Even so called "realistic" art is heightened reality, because they've only chosen a specific subset to show.
I'm talking about whether videos of sex in realistic scenarios is ok for kids. (I don't think so though)
 

DrZoidberg

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....I wouldn't watch porn depicting realistic scenarios. What would the point of that be?
Something to fap to that is somehow less harmful than porn involving unrealistic expectations.

Why would that be harmful? I saw Star Wars, I have no expectations about using the force. Why would unrealistic depictions of fictional sex lead to unrealistic expectations? In my own life I think porn has only been a positive. It's made me a better lover, because it's widened my horizon, making me more attentive to the women I have sex with regarding where the sex can go and what can turn her on.

I want my porn to be strange, in some way. Art should be heightened reality. Even so called "realistic" art is heightened reality, because they've only chosen a specific subset to show.
I'm talking about whether videos of sex in realistic scenarios is ok for kids. (I don't think so though)

No, kids should be watching people having sex. Porn nor live. They don't have the necessary psychological machinery by which to process it. I don't think it'll be overly traumatic for them though. But it's good if it's kept away from them as much as possible IMHO.

I'm a product of the 70'ies. My generations parents believed that children should be told about sex in excruciating detail. With pictures. The result is that I can't have sex with women who aren't shaved (and certainly not with a full bush), because otherwise it just brings back these flashbacks of adolescent bouts of panic, which I had no idea wtf I was seeing and I could not make any sense of it. Not any serious damage though. But unnecessary. No child should be exposed to the stuff I was. That just can't be healthy.
 

bigfield

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....Well given that the only problem with pornography that I am aware of lies in its unrealistic nature....
If kids are allowed to see realistic or unrealistic cartoons for sexual education, why is it that normally kids can't freely watch porn? If it is because porn is "unrealistic" then what about porn involving average amateurs that are in a genuine relationship?

Even amateur porn typically depicts a couple of exhibitionists putting on a show for the camera, which is different than fucking for the sake of it. It's a weird way to be introduced to sex.
 

excreationist

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Why would that be harmful? I saw Star Wars, I have no expectations about using the force. Why would unrealistic depictions of fictional sex lead to unrealistic expectations?...
bilby said "the only problem with pornography that I am aware of lies in its unrealistic nature" - i.e. it is a "problem". He also said "Kids can't effectively learn about sex from porn, because it depicts highly unrealistic relationships, and gives them a totally unrealistic set of expectations" (I thought he implied that was harmful)

No, kids should be watching people having sex. Porn nor live. They don't have the necessary psychological machinery by which to process it. I don't think it'll be overly traumatic for them though. But it's good if it's kept away from them as much as possible IMHO.
Well bilby said the only problem was it being unrealistic. If it was realistic then surely that would eliminate it's sole "problem". (in his view)

....I'm a product of the 70'ies. My generations parents believed that children should be told about sex in excruciating detail. With pictures. The result is that I can't have sex with women who aren't shaved (and certainly not with a full bush), because otherwise it just brings back these flashbacks of adolescent bouts of panic, which I had no idea wtf I was seeing and I could not make any sense of it. Not any serious damage though. But unnecessary. No child should be exposed to the stuff I was. That just can't be healthy.
So you can only have sex with someone that would look prepubescent (shaved) than someone that reminds you of sexual scenes you saw in your childhood in the 70's (not shaved)? I wonder why you weren't traumatised by breasts as well. That's odd. BTW I am turned off of bushes too but I don't look at them. I'm far more turned off by "outies" (rather than "innies").
That goes against what bilby was saying. bushes (70's) are realistic and the "only" problem is the unrealistic nature.
 
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