Chronicles in Post Racial America: Bus Fare Violations

[AthenaAwakened]

So what do you think is the solution Athena? Impose racial quotas on citations and arrests no matter how many actual violations there are by race?

courtesy. That is the solution. It's an old fashioned notion I know. But it was the first rule of good policing according to my father. 25 years on the job, never pulled his gun.

Courtesy is a two way street.

It's an old fashioned notion I know. But it was the first rule of good policing according to my father. 25 years on the job, never pulled his gun.

He would have if the perp was shooting at him, like this fare violator.
Police: Man initially believed slain by officers killed himself
He ended up shooting himself. Didn't stop the protesters of course.

Derec, one fool does not exemplify an entire group

Just think if everyone were to think all white people were like you?

Oh the Horror!

 

[Derec]

So what do you think is the solution Athena? Impose racial quotas on citations and arrests no matter how many actual violations there are by race?

I think Athena would more likely suggest equal protection of the law or some shit like that. Jesus fucking christ! What the hell man?!

But her article only shows that there is unequal outcome, not not unequal protection. In fact, it explicitly states that the data do not mean there is any racial discrimination here.
That's the overall problem with left-wing approach to these things - they only look at inequality of outcomes and want to equalize them. That's also the core of affirmative action or the "women make 77 cents" myth. Or complaining that women's hairstyles cost more than quick, 10 minute, haircuts most men get.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Courtesy is a two way street.

He would have if the perp was shooting at him, like this fare violator.
Police: Man initially believed slain by officers killed himself
He ended up shooting himself. Didn't stop the protesters of course.

Derec, one fool does not exemplify an entire group

Just think if everyone were to think all white people were like you?

Oh the Horror!

#NotallWhiteMales

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think Athena would more likely suggest equal protection of the law or some shit like that. Jesus fucking christ! What the hell man?!

But her article only shows that there is unequal outcome, not not unequal protection.

That is a hair inaccurately split. Tom Sawyer's citation indicates unequal punishment, which is a violation of equal protection under the law.

That's the overall problem with left-wing approach to these things - they only look at inequality of outcomes and want to equalize them. That's also the core of affirmative action or the "women make 77 cents" myth.

If we are going to broadbrush, instead of having a good understanding of the subject by reading the entire thread, the problem with right-wingers is that they are usually sociopaths who care only about themselves and how laws affect them directly.

 

[Derec]

Derec, one fool does not exemplify an entire group

I did not say they did. But you can't deny that in America today blacks are more likely to commit crimes, which reflects itself in fare evasion numbers as well.
Also, I cited this example because it combines a fare evader with the uncomfortable fact that police sometimes have to pull their guns no matter how courteous they are.

Just think if everyone were to think all white people were like you? Oh the Horror!

I know. All the white non-pro women would have to go interracial or lesbian.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I did not say they did. But you can't deny that in America today blacks are more likely to commit crimes, which reflects itself in fare evasion numbers as well.

No it doesn't. How does a greater propensity to commit crimes factor into the treatment of first time offenders?

 

[Derec]

That is a hair inaccurately split. Tom Sawyer's citation indicates unequal punishment, which is a violation of equal protection under the law.

It would be unequal protection iff the unequal punishment was for equal violation. Repeat violators or aggressive behavior after getting caught warrants a harsher punishment and that is not corrected for in this data.

If we are going to broadbrush, instead of having a good understanding of the subject by reading the entire thread, the problem with right-wingers is that they are usually sociopaths who care only about themselves and how laws affect them directly.

Well fare violators cost law abiding riders and taxpayers money, regardless of their race.

Btw, I wonder how hysterically Athena would react in Germany - the German word for fare evader is "Schwarzfahrer", literally "black rider", just like workers employed "under the table" are called "Schwarzarbeiter" (black worker).

 

[Derec]

No it doesn't. How does a greater propensity to commit crimes factor into the treatment of first time offenders?

But the report doesn't say that. From the article in the OP:

The report states, "this analysis cannot distinguish whether uneven enforcement rates are due to bias in enforcement of reflect differences in actual incident levels across racial groups."

 

[Tom Sawyer]

But the report doesn't say that. From the article in the OP:

The report states, "this analysis cannot distinguish whether uneven enforcement rates are due to bias in enforcement of reflect differences in actual incident levels across racial groups."

Sorry, that quote is from the second article linked to a few posts later.

http://www.startribune.com/study-native-americans-and-blacks-more-likely-to-be-cited-by-metro-transit-police-for-fare-evasion/362846081/

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It would be unequal protection iff the unequal punishment was for equal violation. Repeat violators or aggressive behavior after getting caught warrants a harsher punishment and that is not corrected for in this data.

You've already been told that Tom Sawyer cited something that indicated that first time offenders who were NA were more likely to be arrested for a first time offense. And you are still talking about the OP article. Please let me know when you bother to address the additional information, so I stop wasting my time responding to you.

Btw, I wonder how hysterically Athena would react in Germany - the German word for fare evader is "Schwarzfahrer", literally "black rider", just like workers employed "under the table" are called "Schwarzarbeiter" (black worker).

Derec, I could only wish to have your level of class.

 

[dismal]

I think Athena would more likely suggest equal protection of the law or some shit like that. Jesus fucking christ! What the hell man?!

Why would you think that? Based on recent threads this is not a principle that "progressives" (nor Athena in particular) accept.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I did not say they did. But you can't deny that in America today blacks are more likely to commit crimes, which reflects itself in fare evasion numbers as well.

No it doesn't. How does a greater propensity to commit crimes factor into the treatment of first time offenders?

I'm leaning hard in your direction on this one, but to play devil's advocate, propensity to commit crime, or at least violent crime, may be an indicator of propensity to be a first time offender in a particularly violent or disorderly way. Not all fare evasions are done the same way. It is one thing to jump the turnstyle when you think nobody is watching. It is another to do it in front of an officer and flip them off. It is yet another to swear at or spit at or assault the officer who comes to talk to you. It would be interesting to see the percentage of these first time offenses that come with an additional charge.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

No it doesn't. How does a greater propensity to commit crimes factor into the treatment of first time offenders?

I'm leaning hard in your direction on this one, but to play devil's advocate, propensity to commit crime, or at least violent crime, may be an indicator of propensity to be a first time offender in a particularly violent or disorderly way. Not all fare evasions are done the same way. It is one thing to jump the turnstyle when you think nobody is watching. It is another to do it in front of an officer and flip them off. It is yet another to swear at or spit at or assault the officer who comes to talk to you. It would be interesting to see the percentage of these first time offenses that come with an additional charge.

While certainly within the realm of possibility, I can't see something like that accounting for a 150% difference between races. That indicates deliberately having a different set of standards based on the person's race.

 

[Derec]

No it doesn't. How does a greater propensity to commit crimes factor into the treatment of first time offenders?

I'm leaning hard in your direction on this one, but to play devil's advocate, propensity to commit crime, or at least violent crime, may be an indicator of propensity to be a first time offender in a particularly violent or disorderly way. Not all fare evasions are done the same way. It is one thing to jump the turnstyle when you think nobody is watching. It is another to do it in front of an officer and flip them off. It is yet another to swear at or spit at or assault the officer who comes to talk to you. It would be interesting to see the percentage of these first time offenses that come with an additional charge.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I'm glad I don't live in the fascist utopia you envision as a paradise.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Man, that was a good show. Just went to Amazon and got Season 2 on demand (available for $4.99 for all of season 2).

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

You've already been told that Tom Sawyer cited something that indicated that first time offenders who were NA were more likely to be arrested for a first time offense. And you are still talking about the OP article. Please let me know when you bother to address the additional information, so I stop wasting my time responding to you.

Btw, I wonder how hysterically Athena would react in Germany - the German word for fare evader is "Schwarzfahrer", literally "black rider", just like workers employed "under the table" are called "Schwarzarbeiter" (black worker).

Derec, I could only wish to have your level of class.

Well if the Germans do it, it cannot possibly be racist.

 

[Derec]

Well if the Germans do it, it cannot possibly be racist.

The point is that it is not racist - the meaning is related to doing something "in the dark". But that doesn't prevent people from assuming anything with "black" in it is racist.
Dallas County officials spar over ‘black hole’ comment

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well if the Germans do it, it cannot possibly be racist.

The point is that it is not racist - the meaning is related to doing something "in the dark". But that doesn't prevent people from assuming anything with "black" in it is racist.
Dallas County officials spar over ‘black hole’ comment

And seeing this is about Native Americans, you are derailing yet another thread.

 

[Derec]

The point is that it is not racist - the meaning is related to doing something "in the dark". But that doesn't prevent people from assuming anything with "black" in it is racist.
Dallas County officials spar over ‘black hole’ comment

And seeing this is about Native Americans, you are derailing yet another thread.

The OP wasn't solely about so-called "native" Americans.