Chronicles in Socialism - Venezuela Meltdown, an Underappreciated Opportunity for Gawking

[dismal]

But dismal, you are just like a pot calling a kettle black.

I'll put this as politely as possible. If anyone thinks the US and Venezuela have similar similar levels of economic problems that person is a moron. It's not a pot/kettle situation. One is much, much different from the other.

This being obvious even before we note that I, dismal, am not "the US economy". So even if one were the sort of moron who is all pot-kettle-blacky between the US and Venezuelan economy, I, dismal not being the US economy can still make comments about the Venezuelan economy without pot-kettle-black applying in any way whatsoever.

 

[untermensche]

But dismal, you are just like a pot calling a kettle black.

I'll put this as politely as possible. If anyone thinks the US and Venezuela have similar similar levels of economic problems that person is a moron. It's not a pot/kettle situation. One is much, much different from the other.

This being obvious even before we note that I, dismal, am not "the US economy". So even if one were the sort of moron who is all pot-kettle-blacky between the US and Venezuelan economy, I, dismal not being the US economy can still make comments about the Venezuelan economy without pot-kettle-black applying in any way whatsoever.

You're right, there is no comparison.

In the US there are more people going hungry than the entire population of Venezuela.

The US is clearly in a worse state.

Not to mention it's endless wars and violent interference of others.

 

[dismal]

I'll put this as politely as possible. If anyone thinks the US and Venezuela have similar similar levels of economic problems that person is a moron. It's not a pot/kettle situation. One is much, much different from the other.

This being obvious even before we note that I, dismal, am not "the US economy". So even if one were the sort of moron who is all pot-kettle-blacky between the US and Venezuelan economy, I, dismal not being the US economy can still make comments about the Venezuelan economy without pot-kettle-black applying in any way whatsoever.

You're right

Indeed.

 

[untermensche]

You're right

Indeed.

Twisting the words of other counts as argument to some.

Again, more people going hungry in the US than the ENTIRE population of Venezuela.

Yet the well behaved sycophants to US immorality don't care about that.

 

[Jayjay]

I'll put this as politely as possible. If anyone thinks the US and Venezuela have similar similar levels of economic problems that person is a moron. It's not a pot/kettle situation. One is much, much different from the other.

This being obvious even before we note that I, dismal, am not "the US economy". So even if one were the sort of moron who is all pot-kettle-blacky between the US and Venezuelan economy, I, dismal not being the US economy can still make comments about the Venezuelan economy without pot-kettle-black applying in any way whatsoever.

You're right, there is no comparison.

In the US there are more people going hungry than the entire population of Venezuela.

No, there aren't. Not even according to your own source. Repeating the same false claim in your every post doesn't make it true.

 

[untermensche]

You're right, there is no comparison.

In the US there are more people going hungry than the entire population of Venezuela.

No, there aren't. Not even according to your own source. Repeating the same false claim in your every post doesn't make it true.

You are the one making a false claim.

Once again from my source.

1 in 7 Americans struggles to get enough to eat. In fact, Hunger exists in virtual every community in the United States. Learn more about how hunger impacts the country as a whole.

http://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/impact-of-hunger/

And this is just hunger.

We could also talk about the dismal health system in the US with results on third world levels.

 

[Jayjay]

No, there aren't. Not even according to your own source. Repeating the same false claim in your every post doesn't make it true.

You are the one making a false claim.

Once again from my source.

1 in 7 Americans struggles to get enough to eat. In fact, Hunger exists in virtual every community in the United States. Learn more about how hunger impacts the country as a whole.

http://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/impact-of-hunger/

It says, "1 in 7 Americans struggles to get enough to eat". It doesn't mean that they wouldn't eventually get enough to eat. This 1/7th in all likelihood refers to the 14% figure for food insecurity that you quoted earlier. I bet they chose that wording precisely because they knew that it wasn't "hunger", any more than my struggling to get through the morning until I get my lunch is "hunger".

 

[untermensche]

You are the one making a false claim.

Once again from my source.

1 in 7 Americans struggles to get enough to eat. In fact, Hunger exists in virtual every community in the United States. Learn more about how hunger impacts the country as a whole.

http://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/impact-of-hunger/

It says, "1 in 7 Americans struggles to get enough to eat". It doesn't mean that they wouldn't eventually get enough to eat. This 1/7th in all likelihood refers to the 14% figure for food insecurity that you quoted earlier. I bet they chose that wording precisely because they knew that it wasn't "hunger", any more than my struggling to get through the morning until I get my lunch is "hunger".

1 in 7 Americans struggle just to get enough to eat. Most are children. Twist it how you must.

And people defend this system?

And have the nerve to condemn other systems?

Disgraceful.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It is a charity trying to make up for a fucked up system that can't manage to get sufficient food to tens of millions of people, mostly children.

It is a joke for some American to be, like a good puppy, obsessed with Venezuela when there are more American's going without sufficient food than the ENTIRE population of Venezuela.

1) It's already been demonstrated that that "tens of millions" isn't people without enough food. Many of them are people who simply don't have the food they want.

2) The primary cause of children not having enough food is parents more interested in their own wants than caring for their children. This isn't something you can solve by throwing money (or food) at it.

 

[arkirk]

But dismal, you are just like a pot calling a kettle black.

I'll put this as politely as possible. If anyone thinks the US and Venezuela have similar similar levels of economic problems that person is a moron. It's not a pot/kettle situation. One is much, much different from the other.

This being obvious even before we note that I, dismal, am not "the US economy". So even if one were the sort of moron who is all pot-kettle-blacky between the US and Venezuelan economy, I, dismal not being the US economy can still make comments about the Venezuelan economy without pot-kettle-black applying in any way whatsoever.

In terms of social morality it IS A MATTER OF POTS AND KETTLES, Mr. Kettle! You just feel as you do because you cannot conceive of doing anything any way but yours. Yes, the American economy is bigger, but it truly is not something the people in this country control. The bulk of the U.S. economy is owned lock stock and barrel (or is that pot) by the 1%. For the vast majority of Americans, there is nothing to brag about. You really do not believe in allowing people to think and organize and act for themselves. You have a doctrine that just says big is good and smaLL IS BAD...ALWAYS BAD. You feel it is your place to criticize things and ways you do not understand. You act superior to all and tend to rubber stamp things. Once you have rubber stamped something as good, you cry like hell and cry foul if somebody else doesn't see the merit in your way.

 

[arkirk]

It is a charity trying to make up for a fucked up system that can't manage to get sufficient food to tens of millions of people, mostly children.

It is a joke for some American to be, like a good puppy, obsessed with Venezuela when there are more American's going without sufficient food than the ENTIRE population of Venezuela.

1) It's already been demonstrated that that "tens of millions" isn't people without enough food. Many of them are people who simply don't have the food they want.

2) The primary cause of children not having enough food is parents more interested in their own wants than caring for their children. This isn't something you can solve by throwing money (or food) at it.

This is classic Loren. He neglects to say that this food they don't want is not good for them and they are doing the right thing to not want that inferior unnutritious and unpalatable food. That a person has no choice if he is of the wrong caste and open to Loren criticism. This is not INDIA. This is America and it has a lot wrong with it, especially when folks like Loren try to DEFINE some people as less than human and deny their human rights. The main problem with Venezuela is that those folks had a little too much socialism for Loren's taste. I wonder how Loren would think if he lived in Venezuela and got his first medical attention by one of Castro's doctors.

 

[untermensche]

It is a charity trying to make up for a fucked up system that can't manage to get sufficient food to tens of millions of people, mostly children.

It is a joke for some American to be, like a good puppy, obsessed with Venezuela when there are more American's going without sufficient food than the ENTIRE population of Venezuela.

1) It's already been demonstrated that that "tens of millions" isn't people without enough food. Many of them are people who simply don't have the food they want.

2) The primary cause of children not having enough food is parents more interested in their own wants than caring for their children. This isn't something you can solve by throwing money (or food) at it.

You have never demonstrated anything in your life.

What has been demonstrated is that 1 in 7 Americans struggle just to get enough food to eat. Millions go hungry, mostly children.

A system as fucked up as this has no business telling anyone how to run their nation.

But of course those with a brain understand why the unthinking and hypocritical focus on Venezuela.

Their masters have instructed them to.

And their masters only care about one thing in terms of Venezuela, oil. They didn't give two shits when Venezuela was an apartheid hell hole for millions of it's indigenous people.

And neither do these mindless slaves to US imperial masters, just as they don't care about widespread hunger in the US.

 

[Derec]

1 in 7 Americans struggle just to get enough to eat.

As opposed to 7 in 7 of Venezuelans.

Most are children.

How much of that is caused by people having more children than they can afford?

And have the nerve to condemn other systems?

This is a thread about Venezuela and the fruits of their "21st century socialism". You are derailing.

Disgraceful.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[arkirk]

As opposed to 7 in 7 of Venezuelans.

Most are children.

How much of that is caused by people having more children than they can afford?

And have the nerve to condemn other systems?

This is a thread about Venezuela and the fruits of their "21st century socialism". You are derailing.

Disgraceful.

My thoughts exactly.

Why must you always adopt such a condemnatory attitude toward your fellow man? They are hungry...they had too many children they couldn't afford. This thread is a hate thread, started with the intention of condemning those who are attempting to govern in Venezuela. It does not address the real source of the misery either in Venezuela or in America. Venezuela is experiencing a market consequence visited upon them from the outside by the Saudis mainly. Their problem is mostly a problem of oil...far too much cheap oil on the world market. I have already pointed out that the Chavez government relied entirely too heavily on this resource and it is that reliance and not the form of governance that is the source of their problems. Venezuela is not a "failure of Socialism." That assertion is pure bullshit.

 

[dismal]

As opposed to 7 in 7 of Venezuelans.

How much of that is caused by people having more children than they can afford?

And have the nerve to condemn other systems?

This is a thread about Venezuela and the fruits of their "21st century socialism". You are derailing.

Disgraceful.

My thoughts exactly.

Why must you always adopt such a condemnatory attitude toward your fellow man? They are hungry...they had too many children they couldn't afford. This thread is a hate thread, started with the intention of condemning those who are attempting to govern in Venezuela. It does not address the real source of the misery either in Venezuela or in America. Venezuela is experiencing a market consequence visited upon them from the outside by the Saudis mainly. Their problem is mostly a problem of oil...far too much cheap oil on the world market. I have already pointed out that the Chavez government relied entirely too heavily on this resource and it is that reliance and not the form of governance that is the source of their problems. Venezuela is not a "failure of Socialism." That assertion is pure bullshit.

It's the people who support policies like they have in Venezuela that are fucking over their fellow man.

 

[Derec]

Why must you always adopt such a condemnatory attitude toward your fellow man? They are hungry...they had too many children they couldn't afford.

What's wrong with personal responsibility? If you are poor, stop having more children. It's not a difficult concept. It's a special case of "if you are in a hole stop digging", which brings us back on topic to Venezuela.

This thread is a hate thread, started with the intention of condemning those who are attempting to govern in Venezuela.

And boy, do they need condemnation! They have "attempted to govern" for 17 years, perhaps it's time to give the reigns to those who actually can govern.
The Bolivarian Revolution has proven to be an utter failure that was only held afloat for a white by skyrocketing oil prices for most of the last decade and first half of this.

It does not address the real source of the misery either in Venezuela or in America.

In Venezuela the real reason is mismanagement and ideological blindness of the rulers.

Venezuela is experiencing a market consequence visited upon them from the outside by the Saudis mainly. Their problem is mostly a problem of oil...far too much cheap oil on the world market.

Wrong. Nobody owes Venezuelans high prices for their sludge (they have to import light crude to make their own sellable).
The high prices of the 2000s and early 2010s were a major windfall. The government should have used the windfall to diversify the economy, improve infrastructure and bolster the private sector. Instead they created horrible conditions for the private sector with their idiotic price and currency controls.

I have already pointed out that the Chavez government relied entirely too heavily on this resource and it is that reliance and not the form of governance that is the source of their problems. Venezuela is not a "failure of Socialism." That assertion is pure bullshit.

No, trying to blame oil for all their problems does not pass muster. That they could not make a go of it sitting on a proverbial sea of oil (as heavy as it is, it's still valuable) just shows how misguided their revolution was.

 

[arkirk]

What's wrong with personal responsibility? If you are poor, stop having more children. It's not a difficult concept. It's a special case of "if you are in a hole stop digging", which brings us back on topic to Venezuela.

This thread is a hate thread, started with the intention of condemning those who are attempting to govern in Venezuela.

And boy, do they need condemnation! They have "attempted to govern" for 17 years, perhaps it's time to give the reigns to those who actually can govern.
The Bolivarian Revolution has proven to be an utter failure that was only held afloat for a white by skyrocketing oil prices for most of the last decade and first half of this.

It does not address the real source of the misery either in Venezuela or in America.

In Venezuela the real reason is mismanagement and ideological blindness of the rulers.

Venezuela is experiencing a market consequence visited upon them from the outside by the Saudis mainly. Their problem is mostly a problem of oil...far too much cheap oil on the world market.

Wrong. Nobody owes Venezuelans high prices for their sludge (they have to import light crude to make their own sellable).
The high prices of the 2000s and early 2010s were a major windfall. The government should have used the windfall to diversify the economy, improve infrastructure and bolster the private sector. Instead they created horrible conditions for the private sector with their idiotic price and currency controls.

I have already pointed out that the Chavez government relied entirely too heavily on this resource and it is that reliance and not the form of governance that is the source of their problems. Venezuela is not a "failure of Socialism." That assertion is pure bullshit.

No, trying to blame oil for all their problems does not pass muster. That they could not make a go of it sitting on a proverbial sea of oil (as heavy as it is, it's still valuable) just shows how misguided their revolution was.

You really never seem to get it. You don't have a clue about muster. The latest oil squeeze squeezed ALL THE OIL PRODUCERS IN THE WORLD including the U.S., Russia, Canada, Iran, etc. It didn't help them that their oil is among the dirtiest of crudes. These are all market forces, not internal forces within the countries involved. In case you didn't notice, there was not a revolution in Venezuela. There were elections. Venezuela's biggest mistake was in not realizing what an unreliable source of wealth crude oil was in a world awash in crude oil.

Whenever a government sets out to help its poorer citizens, and has only one trump card...the oil, and when that country has been severely disadvantaged by foreign oil parasites, it has a deep hole to climb out of to begin with...something that cannot be cured in 17 years under the best of conditions and American interests have done everything possible to see to it that Venezuela does not develop a healthy state of independence. Your ill will toward these people is unbecoming and extremely unwarranted. The Venezuelans have not been robbing you. You seem to lose track of these simple facts. Actually, Chavez had a charitable highly discounted heating oil program in the northeast of the U.S. Imagine that...Venezuela giving the U.S. foreign aid. You probably can't imagine that as you seem to revel in human pathos and fail to recognize anything Venezuelan that isn't pathos.

 

[fromderinside]

Always nice to see people willing to argue social systems regardless of environments usually without taking the environments into account. Does anyone else see a parallel between Russia's problems, Venezuela's, Iran's problems, Iraq's problems, and those of India (non oil state)? I do and it starts with a 'p'.

 

[dismal]

Always nice to see people willing to argue social systems regardless of environments usually without taking the environments into account. Does anyone else see a parallel between Russia's problems, Venezuela's, Iran's problems, Iraq's problems, and those of India (non oil state)? I do and it starts with a 'p'.

price controls?

printing money?

porking businesses?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

1) It's already been demonstrated that that "tens of millions" isn't people without enough food. Many of them are people who simply don't have the food they want.

2) The primary cause of children not having enough food is parents more interested in their own wants than caring for their children. This isn't something you can solve by throwing money (or food) at it.

This is classic Loren. He neglects to say that this food they don't want is not good for them and they are doing the right thing to not want that inferior unnutritious and unpalatable food. That a person has no choice if he is of the wrong caste and open to Loren criticism. This is not INDIA. This is America and it has a lot wrong with it, especially when folks like Loren try to DEFINE some people as less than human and deny their human rights. The main problem with Venezuela is that those folks had a little too much socialism for Loren's taste. I wonder how Loren would think if he lived in Venezuela and got his first medical attention by one of Castro's doctors.

Big problem here: You're assuming "facts" not in evidence. The definition referred simply to food they didn't desire, it said nothing about it's nutritional value.

As for Castro's doctors--no thanks. They understand the basic stuff.