Chronicles in Socialism - Venezuela Meltdown, an Underappreciated Opportunity for Gawking

[untermensche]

As opposed to 7 in 7 of Venezuelans.

There are many millionaires in Venezuela, even billionaires.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

1) It's already been demonstrated that that "tens of millions" isn't people without enough food. Many of them are people who simply don't have the food they want.

2) The primary cause of children not having enough food is parents more interested in their own wants than caring for their children. This isn't something you can solve by throwing money (or food) at it.

You have never demonstrated anything in your life.

What has been demonstrated is that 1 in 7 Americans struggle just to get enough food to eat. Millions go hungry, mostly children.

A system as fucked up as this has no business telling anyone how to run their nation.

But of course those with a brain understand why the unthinking and hypocritical focus on Venezuela.

Their masters have instructed them to.

And their masters only care about one thing in terms of Venezuela, oil. They didn't give two shits when Venezuela was an apartheid hell hole for millions of it's indigenous people.

And neither do these mindless slaves to US imperial masters, just as they don't care about widespread hunger in the US.

Then Chavez and successors have no business running a nation--far more are hungry down there than here. Furthermore, here the big problem is bad parenting. That can't be fixed without some pretty draconian intervention.

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As opposed to 7 in 7 of Venezuelans.

Most are children.

How much of that is caused by people having more children than they can afford?

And have the nerve to condemn other systems?

This is a thread about Venezuela and the fruits of their "21st century socialism". You are derailing.

Disgraceful.

My thoughts exactly.

7 out of 7?? The elite get what they want. It's just everyone else who suffers.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

As opposed to 7 in 7 of Venezuelans.

How much of that is caused by people having more children than they can afford?

And have the nerve to condemn other systems?

This is a thread about Venezuela and the fruits of their "21st century socialism". You are derailing.

Disgraceful.

My thoughts exactly.

Why must you always adopt such a condemnatory attitude toward your fellow man? They are hungry...they had too many children they couldn't afford. This thread is a hate thread, started with the intention of condemning those who are attempting to govern in Venezuela. It does not address the real source of the misery either in Venezuela or in America. Venezuela is experiencing a market consequence visited upon them from the outside by the Saudis mainly. Their problem is mostly a problem of oil...far too much cheap oil on the world market. I have already pointed out that the Chavez government relied entirely too heavily on this resource and it is that reliance and not the form of governance that is the source of their problems. Venezuela is not a "failure of Socialism." That assertion is pure bullshit.

And you aren't using a condemnatory attitude??

As for relying too much on oil--that has nothing to do with the shortages that plague the nation now. That's the result of his market manipulation.

 

[Derec]

7 out of 7?? The elite get what they want. It's just everyone else who suffers.

That's rounded up to the closest 7th.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You really never seem to get it. You don't have a clue about muster. The latest oil squeeze squeezed ALL THE OIL PRODUCERS IN THE WORLD including the U.S., Russia, Canada, Iran, etc. It didn't help them that their oil is among the dirtiest of crudes. These are all market forces, not internal forces within the countries involved. In case you didn't notice, there was not a revolution in Venezuela. There were elections. Venezuela's biggest mistake was in not realizing what an unreliable source of wealth crude oil was in a world awash in crude oil.

We do get it, you don't. You are simply grasping at straws to explain why Venezuela is a disaster area. Go back several years on here--you'll find several of us on the economic right who predicted what was to come. Things are playing out just like we predicted. Note that our predictions had nothing to do with an oil price crash. Furthermore, things were already going in the shitter down there before the crash.

 

[Derec]

As opposed to 7 in 7 of Venezuelans.

There are many millionaires in Venezuela, even billionaires.

See my response to Loren.

 

[untermensche]

There are many millionaires in Venezuela, even billionaires.

See my response to Loren.

Total bullshit.

Have you even once asked yourself why you care about Venezuela?

Why is it somehow more important than all the capitalist disasters in the Western hemisphere? Places like capitalist Haiti and capitalist Mexico.

I'll give you a hint.

Before Chavez the US was able to exert control over the flow of oil from Venezuela.

That was his big crime. He actually had the nerve to believe that Venezuelan oil belonged to the people of Venezuela and not American imperialists.

Now the American imperialists are up in arms, and their loyal puppy dogs are barking on command.

 

[Derec]

You really never seem to get it. You don't have a clue about muster.

I get it better than you do evidently.

The latest oil squeeze squeezed ALL THE OIL PRODUCERS IN THE WORLD including the U.S., Russia, Canada, Iran, etc.

Yes, they are all suffering. But they all don't have massive shortages/lines nor inflation rate in the stratosphere.

It didn't help them that their oil is among the dirtiest of crudes.

These are all market forces, not internal forces within the countries involved.

Favorable market forces are what kept his regime afloat much longer than would have been otherwise possible.

In case you didn't notice, there was not a revolution in Venezuela. There were elections.

They themselves call it "Bolivarian Revolution", so are you quibbling.

Venezuela's biggest mistake was in not realizing what an unreliable source of wealth crude oil was in a world awash in crude oil.

There are several big mistakes they made. Regarding oil, deputizing PDVSA as yet another state organ funding social programs rather than focusing on and investing in oil production is a big one.

Whenever a government sets out to help its poorer citizens, and has only one trump card...the oil, and when that country has been severely disadvantaged by foreign oil parasites, it has a deep hole to climb out of to begin with...something that cannot be cured in 17 years under the best of conditions and American interests have done everything possible to see to it that Venezuela does not develop a healthy state of independence.

So much claptrap. It's not that 17 years was not long enough for necessary reforms, it's that 17 years was long enough to completely fuck up the place.

Your ill will toward these people is unbecoming and extremely unwarranted. The Venezuelans have not been robbing you.

I have much goodwill toward the Venezuelan people.

You seem to lose track of these simple facts. Actually, Chavez had a charitable highly discounted heating oil program in the northeast of the U.S. Imagine that...Venezuela giving the U.S. foreign aid.

I can imagine that. It's that kind of wanton wastefulness that has been a hallmark of the Chavismo.

You probably can't imagine that as you seem to revel in human pathos and fail to recognize anything Venezuelan that isn't pathos.

Again, nonsense. I recognize arepas.

 

[Derec]

Have you even once asked yourself why you care about Venezuela?

A big part is how US left tended to be rather enthusiastic about him and bought his propaganda that he was bringing "21st century socialism". That kind of enthusiasm has largely vaned in more recent years, present company excepting of course.

Why is it somehow more important than all the capitalist disasters in the Western hemisphere? Places like capitalist Haiti and capitalist Mexico.

First off, calling Haiti capitalist is rather questionable. Second, nobody in US has been trotting out Haiti or Mexico as a model for how to successfully run the country. Chavez was in the 2000s.

Before Chavez the US was able to exert control over the flow of oil from Venezuela.

What do you mean "exert control"?

That was his big crime. He actually had the nerve to believe that Venezuelan oil belonged to the people of Venezuela and not American imperialists.

He also refused to pay foreign oil companies and confiscated their equipment when they demanded payment. In other words, he is nothing but a kleptocrat.

Now the American imperialists are up in arms, and their loyal puppy dogs are barking on command.

ROTFLMAO!

 

[untermensche]

A big part is how US left tended to be rather enthusiastic about him and bought his propaganda that he was bringing "21st century socialism". That kind of enthusiasm has largely vaned in more recent years, present company excepting of course.

Why is it somehow more important than all the capitalist disasters in the Western hemisphere? Places like capitalist Haiti and capitalist Mexico.

First off, calling Haiti capitalist is rather questionable. Second, nobody in US has been trotting out Haiti or Mexico as a model for how to successfully run the country. Chavez was in the 2000s.

Before Chavez the US was able to exert control over the flow of oil from Venezuela.

What do you mean "exert control"?

That was his big crime. He actually had the nerve to believe that Venezuelan oil belonged to the people of Venezuela and not American imperialists.

He also refused to pay foreign oil companies and confiscated their equipment when they demanded payment. In other words, he is nothing but a kleptocrat.

Now the American imperialists are up in arms, and their loyal puppy dogs are barking on command.

ROTFLMAO!

I hear a puppy dog barking.

His masters must have shown him what to bark at.

 

[Derec]

I hear a puppy dog barking.
His masters must have shown him what to bark at.

I accept your concession of the argument. Better luck next time comrade.

 

[untermensche]

I hear a puppy dog barking.
His masters must have shown him what to bark at.

I accept your concession of the argument. Better luck next time comrade.

You make no arguments.

You merely focus on the things your betters tell you to.

You focus on Venezuela and completely ignore places like Haiti, and Guatemala, and Mexico.

And all the hunger and lack of health care in the US.

Because your masters have you well trained.

 

[Derec]

You focus on Venezuela and completely ignore places like Haiti, and Guatemala, and Mexico.

This is a thread about Venezuela.

And all the hunger and lack of health care in the US.

Again.

Because your masters have you well trained.

I think you are losing it.

 

[untermensche]

This is a thread about Venezuela.

This is the thousandth worthless thread about Venezuela.

Again, the focus on Venezuela and the lack of interest in capitalist hell holes and the glaring problems with American capitalism is not only hypocritical but a sign that some have been well indoctrinated.

But bark on little puppy. Your masters are smiling.

 

[coloradoatheist]

I think it's interesting that you are asking us why we are focusing on Venezuela when the US has tried to help a lot of other countries that didn't have oil. I think you can name some of them

 

[untermensche]

I think it's interesting that you are asking us why we are focusing on Venezuela when the US has tried to help a lot of other countries that didn't have oil. I think you can name some of them

Help?

The US helps itself.

And destroys everything and everyone it touches.

How many times did the US invade and overthrow the elected leaders of Guatemala and Haiti?

I doubt very much those that somehow (again it is only because of oil) have laser like vision when it comes to Venezuela can answer that.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Do we have any numbers of the number of poor Americans moving to Venezuela compared to the number of Venezuelans trying to come to the US?

 

[untermensche]

Do we have any numbers of the number of poor Americans moving to Venezuela compared to the number of Venezuelans trying to come to the US?

Do you have any inkling of the history of Venezuela?

I mean before Chavez.

It was a nightmare for millions of indigenous people. Centuries of incredible racism and exploitation.

Unfortunately the US was not holding out a hand for them.

And no puppy dogs of American imperialists barked for them.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Do we have any numbers of the number of poor Americans moving to Venezuela compared to the number of Venezuelans trying to come to the US?

Do you have any inkling of the history of Venezuela?

I mean before Chavez.

It was a nightmare for millions of indigenous people. Centuries of incredible racism and exploitation.

Unfortunately the US was not holding out a hand for them.

And no puppy dogs of American imperialists barked for them.

You are the one saying that things are so bad in the US. But are the poor leaving in droves out of the US to go somewhere else?

 

[untermensche]

Do you have any inkling of the history of Venezuela?

I mean before Chavez.

It was a nightmare for millions of indigenous people. Centuries of incredible racism and exploitation.

Unfortunately the US was not holding out a hand for them.

And no puppy dogs of American imperialists barked for them.

You are the one saying that things are so bad in the US. But are the poor leaving in droves out of the US to go somewhere else?

Why wouldn't the US help all those indigenous Venezuelans suffering under brutal racist treatment by the Venezuelan government?

What was wrong with them?

Why did the US only support the people exploiting and abusing them? (once again....oil)