Columbia University is colluding with the far-right in its attack on students

[Jimmy Higgins]

Since the beginning of this war I have said that Egypt should allow a camp in the Sinai for children under 14 at least.

Why not a camp for them in the West Bank?

Seriously, why not?

Or Gaza would have been convenient. Because terrorists can be used as excuse anywhere you put the camp. So why not keep the Gazans in Gaza?

 

[Derec]

Why not a camp for them in the West Bank?
Seriously, why not?

Sinai is right there.

 

[Derec]

You can wave your hands till the cows come home, spraying that stuff in close proximity to other people is still assault.

Show me case law where a person was charged with assault in NY for spraying something like this "in close proximity" to people.
But then again, Alvin Bragg is a highly political DA. Would not surprise me if he found some "novel legal theory" to charge it while ignoring all the crimes by the anti-Israel crowd.

 

[Playball40]

Christ! He and the western countries gave Israel a limited blank check after the October 7th massacre.

Unlimited? Hardly! US is even pressuring Israel not to go into Rafah, even though there are several Hamas batallions there. Even though that's where Yahya Sinwar is hiding out.
US is also pressuring Israel into a rotten ceasefire deal where >1000 Palestinian terrorists are released for <40 Israeli hostages.
Unlimited, my ass!

Oh so you have secret insight into where Hamas leaders are hiding out? Got it. <roll eyes>

 

[Derec]

I believe what you meant to say was that some were reflecting that the worst of the things being reported as happening, appeared to be occurring outside of Columbia grounds, and that those specific events shouldn't be held against the protestors on Columbia grounds. This is a reasonable standing.

People should be held responsible for their own actions, sure. But I do not think the on-campus and just-outside-campus crowds are as separate as you seem to believe.
Also, they have now occupied a university building. That is very much on-campus.

Obviously? I'm not certain much can be obvious from the distance we are from these events, and the lack of information.

Even in his "apology" he is blaming it all on "far right agitators". A real apology doesn't look like that.

Maybe these things wouldn't be obvious if you didn't get all your information from I Hate Muslims.com.

I don't.

 

[Derec]

Oh so you have secret insight into where Hamas leaders are hiding out? Got it. <roll eyes>

Rafah is last bit of Gaza where IDF has not conducted ground operations. So yes, he is most likely hiding out in Rafah.

 

[Derec]

Or Gaza would have been convenient. Because terrorists can be used as excuse anywhere you put the camp. So why not keep the Gazans in Gaza?

Because it's hard to get food etc. to the civilian population in a warzone.

 

[ZiprHead]

And news footage of his people roughing up minorities to defend his policies is the only thing that makes him nervous in that way.

"his people"??? Where? When?

 

[Derec]

I wouldn't have immediately scaled an all out perpetual war (thinking Afghanistan).

It's only been 7 months. Far cry from Afghanistan's 20 years.

I would have used intelligence and struck strategically AFTER attempting to negotiate the release of the hostages diplomatically.

What makes you think that there wasn't strategic targeting based on intelligence?
As far as getting hostages out diplomatically without a war, that was a nonstarter, as Hamas made it clear they demanded all terror prisoners freed. The only reason the limited exchange in November happened at the 3:1 ratio was that Hamas was pounded militarily first. If Israel acted all meek and mild, Hamas would only be emboldened to insist on maximal demands.

Yes, Israel has a right to 'defend' itself (as does Gaza),

Gaza started this war of aggression. They do not have the right to "defend themselves" any more than Russia against Ukraine or Nazi Germany against the Allies.

but let's not pretend that the attack on 10/7 was in isolation.

Of course it wasn't! It is part of Hamas' genocidal project to destroy Israel. They were not hiding it. 2018/19 border riots were a dress rehearsal for 10/7. That's where Sinwar vowed to "erase the border with Israel and rip Israelis' hearts from their chests". As you said, 10/7 is not isolated. It's who Hamas are at their rotten, islamofascist core.

Blowing up and bombing all of Gaza in the HOPES of killing a few Hamas members

More than 15k Hamas fighters were killed including high ranking leaders like Marwan Issa. Many more were wounded and/or captured. That is more than "a few" and it's more than just "hopes".

does NOTHING but create more hatred and anger among the Palestinian people.

There already is plenty of hatred among the Palestinians against the very existence of Israel. Israel not defending itself after 10/7 and maybe turning the other cheek would not have made Palestinians any less hateful or angry.

There is no reason to continue on with this tactic unless....perhaps....your end goad is not a release of the hostages.

Hostages should be released, but not at any price. I do not think any terrorists serving life sentences should be on the table.
Netanyahu made a mistake in 2011 with the Shalit deal. He would be well advised not to repeat that mistake.

 

[laughing dog]

You keep repeating the same misinformation. The citizens of Gaza did not deliberately choose death and destruction - Hamas did.

I believe that Hamas is Gazans.
Your unwillingness to grasp that fact doesn't change the reality.
Tom

I am not confused.Theree are plenty of Gazans who are not members of Hamas. Your persistence conflation of the two is the issue.

 

[laughing dog]

Why would you take the self-serving unsubstantiated statement of an arrested protester as gospel?

I don't. But the claims of the anti-Israel protesters are just as unsubstantiated, and they have the burden of proof.

Interesting - that is a standard you do not usually apply whenever the police arrest someone.

 

[TomC]

You keep repeating the same misinformation. The citizens of Gaza did not deliberately choose death and destruction - Hamas did.

I believe that Hamas is Gazans.
Your unwillingness to grasp that fact doesn't change the reality.
Tom

I am not confused.Theree are plenty of Gazans who are not members of Hamas. Your persistence conflation of the two is the issue.

How do you distinguish clearly enough for the purpose of protecting Israel?
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Breaking into a building and trying to overturn an election through violence is in no way comparable to tents in a quad. Please get a grip in reality.

Try to keep up. They broke into and are occupying a university building.

There are lots of protests around the US with arrests everywhere.

 

[laughing dog]

You keep repeating the same misinformation. The citizens of Gaza did not deliberately choose death and destruction - Hamas did.

I believe that Hamas is Gazans.
Your unwillingness to grasp that fact doesn't change the reality.
Tom

I am not confused.Theree are plenty of Gazans who are not members of Hamas. Your persistence conflation of the two is the issue.

How do you distinguish clearly enough for the purpose of protecting Israel?
Tom

How is the difficulty of distinguishing between terrorists and civilians in Gaza at all relevant to the issue of whether or not what is going on in Gaza is a form of ethnic cleansing?

 

[Politesse]

Why not a camp for them in the West Bank?

Seriously, why not?

Israel would find a terrorist or terrorist cell that is using the camp for cover, and use that as pretext to slaughter them all.

 

[TomC]

You keep repeating the same misinformation. The citizens of Gaza did not deliberately choose death and destruction - Hamas did.

I believe that Hamas is Gazans.
Your unwillingness to grasp that fact doesn't change the reality.
Tom

I am not confused.Theree are plenty of Gazans who are not members of Hamas. Your persistence conflation of the two is the issue.

How do you distinguish clearly enough for the purpose of protecting Israel?
Tom

How is the difficulty of distinguishing between terrorists and civilians in Gaza at all relevant to the issue of whether or not what is going on in Gaza is a form of ethnic cleansing?

You really don't get that?
Israel is targeting the threat to Israel.

That's Hamas lead Gazans. Nothing to do with ethnicity, it's all about the ongoing threat that Gazans pose to Israel.
The reason Innocents and children (who could be militants) are dying is because they remain human shields for Gazan leaders. This could all end very quickly with sufficient cooperation from Gazans, including the Hamas.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Why not a camp for them in the West Bank?

Seriously, why not?

Israel would find a terrorist or terrorist cell that is using the camp for cover, and use that as pretext to slaughter them all.

Yeah, we haven't seen that at all in this offensive. Can you please stick to the crimes the IDF is actually being committed to by Netanyahu?

 

[Derec]

Some people can't admit error. "Limited blank check"

Which is an oxymoron.

Biden hasn't reneged on anything.

Of course he has.
Biden says Hamas must be eliminated, US officials warn of escalation

There is no plan to destroy Hamas, it can't be done. That is video game fantasy. As if Rafah were the Final Boss level.

Of course it can be done. NSDAP was destroyed. Hamas can be too.
Rafah is a necessary condition for eliminating Hamas' militant presence in Gaza. Of course, that will not eliminate all members, and there is also Hamas presence in the West Bank, but it is a necessary step nonetheless. Which is why the Biden administration stance on the Rafah offensive is so disappointing. It will leave Hamas in power and it will allow them to claim victory. Especially if Israel, as seems likely, is pressured into releasing >1000 terrorists from prison.

It has to do with the death and destruction in Gaza.

Which is what happens in wars.

And as Biden's analysts have likely told Biden, you ain't destroying Hamas. The biggest players are elsewhere, and pretty much any one is expendable.

The fight against Hamas is one that needs to be waged on several fronts. Not least of which is Iran. But the Rafah front is significant as well.

Hamas also has the hostages, which is holding Israel back from more extreme measures against the leaders of Hamas.

Indeed. But that is no reason not to go after them at all.

You do bring up an interesting parallel here, which you seemed to have missed. The security and police in DC didn't shoot in almost all cases. They seceded ground temporarily to keep the blood stains to a minimum, and fired only where there was no ground cede between themselves and Congress.

They shot an unarmed woman. It's funny how to the left shooting an unarmed woman is justified but shooting an armed one is not, as long as she is black. I brought 1/6 because that's the only case where the left thinks an angry mob is wrong. Left-wing mobs are always excused, even if they burn this bitch down or shoot an 8 year old girl in Atlanta.

To get back to Columbia, does this look "peaceful" to you"? Is that covered by the First Amendment?

Or do you think that, a la Capitol Police, NYPD would be justified in taking this Abu Obaida looking mofo out?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Hamas also has the hostages, which is holding Israel back from more extreme measures against the leaders of Hamas.

Indeed. But that is no reason not to go after them at all.

Yes, it is... which is why Mossad hasn't.

You do bring up an interesting parallel here, which you seemed to have missed. The security and police in DC didn't shoot in almost all cases. They seceded ground temporarily to keep the blood stains to a minimum, and fired only where there was no ground cede between themselves and Congress.

They shot an unarmed woman. It's funny how to the left shooting an unarmed woman is justified but shooting an armed one is not, as long as she is black. I brought 1/6 because that's the only case where the left thinks an angry mob is wrong.

You seriously lack any sense of contextual understanding. It makes discussions like this akin to slamming my hand in the door... repeatedly.

But yes, you did wiggle around the issue regarding the response of those in authority and when force and violence isn't necessarily the best option. The FBI didn't storm the BLM in Oregon. DC Police and Security didn't blast away at the invaders. Escalating things at Columbia is a bad idea.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Columbia students suspended again:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/columbia-university-urges-pro-palestinian-protesters-disperse-after-failed-talks-2024-04-29/

Columbia suspends pro-Palestinian protesters after encampment talks stall

NEW YORK, April 29 (Reuters) - Columbia University on Monday began suspending pro-Palestinian student activists who refused to dismantle a protest camp on the New York City campus after the Ivy League school declared a stalemate in talks seeking to end the polarizing demonstration.

University President Nemat Minouche Shafik said in a statement that days of negotiations between student organizers and academic leaders had failed to persuade demonstrators to remove the dozens of tents set up to express opposition to Israel's war in Gaza.

Columbia students barricading themselves (link is via Wash-Po). This is going in the wrong direction. Instead of treating these people like adults and expecting them to act reasoned, the campus seems to have fucked up. The students are acting like the children they were treated like.

I think the danger to Jewish students is overspoken, I'd be more worried about the demonstrators doing more harm to themselves. I think the only option at this point is to walk away from it. If the Hall is expendable, expend it for a bit, let them have their moment with no one looking.

I took a look at Jonathan's feed and from that I've inferred some things. So previously, when the suspensions were given out, the group reasoned that suspensions were given in order to afterward justify arrests. That is, it's a more straightforward way of saying a student is trespassing on the area designated for protests (the lawn) when the student is disallowed in school. They were also aware this time of some extra police presence outside and so I reckon that when the suspensions were announced they deduced they were about to be arrested again, the encampment torn down, and since they'd need id's to work to get back into college once out of police custody, they concluded all things would be over. A lot of this is my inferring things here....but Columbia has a history of these kinds of occupations including during anti-war protests and the civil rights movement. We're hearing how peaceful the anti-war movement was, but in April 1968, actually it seems to the day of the first suspension, students barricaded themselves in because of a perceived civil rights issue but also a side issue was the school's relation to military research that they demanded the school not participate in. Now, in current times, the school looks back on the protests as a good thing with pride and so when the students considered what to do next to prevent arrest, a barricade consistent with past Columbia activism was a natural thought.

Looking from the outside, I do not see how this is productive. I am not imagining a win here. Am I too cynical?