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Comment from a Judge (Police and Populace)

Crazy Eddie

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Written by a very good friend of mine. He puts it way better than I ever could:


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I don’t believe the majority of law enforcement officers are bad people who are prone to violence, brutality, and racism, prone to disregard our constitutional rights. I’ve known too many officers and too many good officers to believe that the majority are like that. We all know there ARE indeed some rotten ones but reasonable people may disagree about how many or what percentage.

I’ve worked in the criminal justice system for 30 years. I’ve worked with, investigated and prosecuted law enforcement officers. I’ve been a defense attorney and have successfully challenged, in court, how particular law enforcement officers conducted themselves in particular cases and the accuracy and credibility of their testimony. And, now I am in my 15th year as a District Court Judge and I’ve had cases, in my courtroom, in which law enforcement officers have made mistakes, have admitted attempting to mislead the court, and have taken actions that were clearly in violation of the law, in violation of a citizen’s constitutional rights and in violation of department protocol.

I’ve also seen law enforcement officers save lives, protect children, and put themselves in harm way in the call of duty. I have been the keynote speaker at a police officers’ memorial service honoring slain officers while their parents, spouses, children, and friends sit in the audience mourning the loss of their loved ones.

I’ve seen officers go to great lengths to avoid making life harder for folks who are already in dire straits; seen them deal with some of the most horrible people and situations; seen them deal with folks when folks are at their worst whether because of mental illness; seen them deal with folks when they are outrageously stressed or pissed beyond reason or feeling they have been treated unfairly by a system they feel is biased against them; folks, whacked out on drugs, or just hated-filled, mean-spirited and ill-intentioned motherfuckers. I’ve seen officers manage, without excessive violence, some of the most difficult and/or most dangerous people while still remembering the humanity of those involved as well as the officers’ own humanity.

Reasonable people can disagree about the number of instances of excessive force, about the number/percentage of law enforcement officers who should not be in that profession. For sure, in a country that has as many law enforcement agencies and law enforcement officers as we have in the U.S., it is impossible for any thinking person to believe that there aren’t ANY officers that are not suited to that difficult and important work. Some of those are decent folks that made a mistake (just like the rest of us) for which they should be held accountable. And some are just rotten folks that should be shunned and outed by their fellow officers and prosecuted for things they have done. But they are not the majority.

All of that being said, it has been concerning and distressing to see the barrage of the stories and videos that appear to show brutality and excessive force and the violations of folks’ constitutional rights. Some of the videos we’ve seen in the last year are horrible and hard to defend: the police officer in North Carolina shooting the man in the back; the 12 year old boy in Cleveland shot less than two seconds after the officer arrived on the scene; the unnecessary force used by a Texas officer on a 14-year old girl at a pool party; the beating of a female bartender by a Chicago police officer; the stomping and beating of a horse thief out west; an officer pummeling a woman on the side of the road; a man shot by a policeman while he reached into his truck to get his driver's license; an officer repeatedly punching a hand-cuffed woman and then macing her; the woman in Texas who was stopped for a minor traffic violation and was later found dead in a jail cell; and, just this week, the Cincinnati man shot in the head and killed after being stopped for a minor traffic violation.

Many of the left-leaning folks I know and hear from are quick to conclude that, every time there is physical interaction between law enforcement and a citizen, the police use excessive force. Many folks come to this conclusion before we have seen and heard of all the evidence or the entire video.

But I am also troubled by the initial reaction of so many right-leaning folks i know and hear from when they see these images/videos: “Just do what the officer tells you. Just cooperate. Don’t break the law and these things won’t happen to you.” Let’s assume that statement is true, that if you cooperate, these things won’t happen to you. Now assume that somehow your friend, father, brother, sister, significant other, teenage daughter, neighbor or son was shot or punched or stomped or otherwise man-handled in circumstances like those I’ve referenced here. If I said to your bloodied, bruised, broken loved one, “Just do what the officer tells you. Just cooperate. Don’t break the law and these things won’t happen to you,” would that satisfy you? Hell motherfucking no!! Be honest! You might disapprove of your loved one’s behavior, might even be pissed about that behavior but you’d also feel that, just as your loved one, the officer should be held accountable for his/her actions.

It is time that we hear loudly and clearly the voices of respectable, professional law enforcement officers who are concerned, if not appalled, by the videos and the anti-law enforcement sentiment being bred in this country now. At least a couple of those good guys are my friends. We need the good officers and good people who support good officers to step up and call out the bad behavior of those other officers. Their silence, your silence, our silence makes us hardly better than those few police officers whose actions lead to distrust of law enforcement, whose actions lead to tragedy, whose actions make law enforcement work more dangerous for good officers and for all citizens.


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Is this a sentiment we can get behind? I'd like to think so.
 
Is this a sentiment we can get behind? I'd like to think so.

I think so.

The big problem, imo, is the utter silence from the "good" officers. I know they're out there. But as a military vet I also understand that the brotherhood you are apart of can take precedence over otherwise right-thinking.
 
How was that quote? "A Good Cop is a cop who blows the whistle on a Bad Cop. When's the last time you saw a Good Cop?"
 
I agree mostly with the second half of the essay, but I have some serious reservations regarding the first half.

I'm disinclined to believe that a judge has impartial judgement regarding the prevalence of good vs. bad cops working in the country. If police officers ever have a motive to lie, that motive is strongest when in the presence of judges, and to a lesser extent defense attorneys and prosecutors and the media. It doesn't have to be in the court room either. That line is firm because if an officer ever gives a bad impression of himself or his other friends in blue to a judge, the consequences may be dire the next time they meet in court ( which is all the time).

The fact that this judge also counts himself as "friends" with several police officers only offers a reason for him to be (unintentionally) biased in his analysis of police overreach, corruption and abuse.

In addition, most fair judges in criminal courts would be put in a difficult situation if they were ever to have to face the fact that a preponderance of police officers regularly abuse their powers. Most criminal cases depend on the the veracity of police work and if that were to fall into question ALL of the convictions AND acquittals AND plea bargains that judge had presided over would also be called into question. Most criminal courts are jury trials, so the consequences of the verdict don't fall entirely on the judge's shoulders, but learning that one's entire judicial professional career has been tainted may cause a cognitive dissonance strong enough to prevent a judge from consciously recognizing the problems in the system.

This judge may be right and it's only a few bad apples and good officers who made some tragic mistakes, but I can't trust his analysis of the situation to be accurate.
 
Written by a very good friend of mine. He puts it way better than I ever could:


- -
I don’t believe the majority of law enforcement officers are bad people who are prone to violence, brutality, and racism, prone to disregard our constitutional rights. I’ve known too many officers and too many good officers to believe that the majority are like that. We all know there ARE indeed some rotten ones but reasonable people may disagree about how many or what percentage.

I’ve worked in the criminal justice system for 30 years. I’ve worked with, investigated and prosecuted law enforcement officers. I’ve been a defense attorney and have successfully challenged, in court, how particular law enforcement officers conducted themselves in particular cases and the accuracy and credibility of their testimony. And, now I am in my 15th year as a District Court Judge and I’ve had cases, in my courtroom, in which law enforcement officers have made mistakes, have admitted attempting to mislead the court, and have taken actions that were clearly in violation of the law, in violation of a citizen’s constitutional rights and in violation of department protocol.

I’ve also seen law enforcement officers save lives, protect children, and put themselves in harm way in the call of duty. I have been the keynote speaker at a police officers’ memorial service honoring slain officers while their parents, spouses, children, and friends sit in the audience mourning the loss of their loved ones.

I’ve seen officers go to great lengths to avoid making life harder for folks who are already in dire straits; seen them deal with some of the most horrible people and situations; seen them deal with folks when folks are at their worst whether because of mental illness; seen them deal with folks when they are outrageously stressed or pissed beyond reason or feeling they have been treated unfairly by a system they feel is biased against them; folks, whacked out on drugs, or just hated-filled, mean-spirited and ill-intentioned motherfuckers. I’ve seen officers manage, without excessive violence, some of the most difficult and/or most dangerous people while still remembering the humanity of those involved as well as the officers’ own humanity.

Reasonable people can disagree about the number of instances of excessive force, about the number/percentage of law enforcement officers who should not be in that profession. For sure, in a country that has as many law enforcement agencies and law enforcement officers as we have in the U.S., it is impossible for any thinking person to believe that there aren’t ANY officers that are not suited to that difficult and important work. Some of those are decent folks that made a mistake (just like the rest of us) for which they should be held accountable. And some are just rotten folks that should be shunned and outed by their fellow officers and prosecuted for things they have done. But they are not the majority.

All of that being said, it has been concerning and distressing to see the barrage of the stories and videos that appear to show brutality and excessive force and the violations of folks’ constitutional rights. Some of the videos we’ve seen in the last year are horrible and hard to defend: the police officer in North Carolina shooting the man in the back; the 12 year old boy in Cleveland shot less than two seconds after the officer arrived on the scene; the unnecessary force used by a Texas officer on a 14-year old girl at a pool party; the beating of a female bartender by a Chicago police officer; the stomping and beating of a horse thief out west; an officer pummeling a woman on the side of the road; a man shot by a policeman while he reached into his truck to get his driver's license; an officer repeatedly punching a hand-cuffed woman and then macing her; the woman in Texas who was stopped for a minor traffic violation and was later found dead in a jail cell; and, just this week, the Cincinnati man shot in the head and killed after being stopped for a minor traffic violation.

Many of the left-leaning folks I know and hear from are quick to conclude that, every time there is physical interaction between law enforcement and a citizen, the police use excessive force. Many folks come to this conclusion before we have seen and heard of all the evidence or the entire video.

But I am also troubled by the initial reaction of so many right-leaning folks i know and hear from when they see these images/videos: “Just do what the officer tells you. Just cooperate. Don’t break the law and these things won’t happen to you.” Let’s assume that statement is true, that if you cooperate, these things won’t happen to you. Now assume that somehow your friend, father, brother, sister, significant other, teenage daughter, neighbor or son was shot or punched or stomped or otherwise man-handled in circumstances like those I’ve referenced here. If I said to your bloodied, bruised, broken loved one, “Just do what the officer tells you. Just cooperate. Don’t break the law and these things won’t happen to you,” would that satisfy you? Hell motherfucking no!! Be honest! You might disapprove of your loved one’s behavior, might even be pissed about that behavior but you’d also feel that, just as your loved one, the officer should be held accountable for his/her actions.

It is time that we hear loudly and clearly the voices of respectable, professional law enforcement officers who are concerned, if not appalled, by the videos and the anti-law enforcement sentiment being bred in this country now. At least a couple of those good guys are my friends. We need the good officers and good people who support good officers to step up and call out the bad behavior of those other officers. Their silence, your silence, our silence makes us hardly better than those few police officers whose actions lead to distrust of law enforcement, whose actions lead to tragedy, whose actions make law enforcement work more dangerous for good officers and for all citizens.


- -

Is this a sentiment we can get behind? I'd like to think so.

No, it's not.

African-Americans are twenty one times more likely to be killed by a police officer.

Long before the media started reporting on these stories, the numbers showed that we have a systemic problem that results in a shocking amount of injustice, and inevitably it is the poor and minorities who suffer the most when such things happen. We have a serious problem and we've had a serious problem for decades.

Rather than admit that we have a problem and offer solutions to fix the problem, your friend is trying a "both sides are exactly as bad" argument in an attempt to sound more reasonable, but leaving things as they are is anything but reasonable.

Frankly, I don't think your friend belongs on the bench. If he's not willing to do anything to fix the problem, then he is part of the problem.
 
I agree mostly with the second half of the essay, but I have some serious reservations regarding the first half.

I'm disinclined to believe that a judge has impartial judgement regarding the prevalence of good vs. bad cops working in the country. If police officers ever have a motive to lie, that motive is strongest when in the presence of judges, and to a lesser extent defense attorneys and prosecutors and the media. It doesn't have to be in the court room either. That line is firm because if an officer ever gives a bad impression of himself or his other friends in blue to a judge, the consequences may be dire the next time they meet in court ( which is all the time).

The fact that this judge also counts himself as "friends" with several police officers only offers a reason for him to be (unintentionally) biased in his analysis of police overreach, corruption and abuse.
You would think so, but knowing him as I do I don't believe this to be the case. I know, for example, that he's not exaggerating when he says he has caught police officers in the midst of obvious misconduct and called them out on it. Actually, I think he's in a better position to gauge the scope and prevalence of that misconduct than most of US are, since he gets to see the cases where an officer screws up WITHOUT killing someone or creating a large newsworthy scandal. It's more common than we hear, but not as common as you'd think.

Most criminal courts are jury trials
But a lot of what judges actually do goes way beyond presiding over trials. In fact, a fair amount of work by circuit judges is done OUTSIDE of courtrooms. In his particular duties, he also has to deal with probation/parole processing and dispositional work for convicted felons who have already served their sentences. He's a person that I know has seen both sides of the divide -- and has BEEN on both sides of the divide -- so I think his perspective is about as informed as it gets.

Frankly, I don't think your friend belongs on the bench. If he's not willing to do anything to fix the problem, then he is part of the problem.

Fair enough, but it seems his suggestion is that POLICE OFFICERS need to be part of the solution since it's the "Turn a blind eye to the bad apples" attitude that is the main cause of the problem. There are enough law enforcement officers who feel as badly about the Sam Dubose incident as the rest of us do, but the "brotherhood effect" seems to be squashing the discussion.

Would you agree that the problem of "too many bad cops" could best be solved by the actions of "Way more good cops?" Because it seems to me that that very inaction is actually the crux of the problem as it is.
 
I think the big problem that people have with these cases of improper police violence is not the acts themselves (though that is certainly a major cause of the stress involved for victims and their families), but the inaction (sometimes maybe just perceived, but often real) by the police departments and prosecutors in response. Quite often it seems that the whole police department and/or prosecutors of that town, district or whatever are corrupt or uncaring.
Also, I think this has a lot to do with the peculiar structure of police services and justice in USA. Elected judges and sheriffs is one of the bizarre things to everyone else.
In Australia and many other nations there are state police but that's it (apart from the AFP at federal level that has a narrow remit). Any cop in a town or city is part of the state police service, all operating under the same rules.
 
I think the big problem that people have with these cases of improper police violence is not the acts themselves (though that is certainly a major cause of the stress involved for victims and their families), but the inaction (sometimes maybe just perceived, but often real) by the police departments and prosecutors in response. Quite often it seems that the whole police department and/or prosecutors of that town, district or whatever are corrupt or uncaring.
Also, I think this has a lot to do with the peculiar structure of police services and justice in USA. Elected judges and sheriffs is one of the bizarre things to everyone else.
In Australia and many other nations there are state police but that's it (apart from the AFP at federal level that has a narrow remit). Any cop in a town or city is part of the state police service, all operating under the same rules.

I'm sick of hearing 'The police were informed but took no action.', often when wide-scale child abuse is revealed.
 
I think that the judge has highlighted the important factor - that there is a strong disincentive to stop a fellow officer from doing wrong, and that the key is to get the police to pick up on their own crimes, rather than waiting for someone to catch them on camera.

I don't agree that the judge is in a good position to judge the extent of corruption in the police force. By definition a judge is going to be dealing with 100% of cases where a police officer reports another officer, and only a small % of cases where they don't.

I was involved with an outfit that did a big policing study many years back, in an attempt to find ways to 'improve public confidence in the police force'. They looked at policing opinions and outcomes, in the LA PD and in London's Metropolitan Police, in order to find out how to close the gap between public perception and what actually went on. The findings were unexpected. It turned out that the biggest gap between opinions and outcomes was within the police themselves, followed by various people in the legal process, including lawyers and judges. The most accurate picture came from the general public.

The outcome of the study, that the best way to improve public confidence in the police force was to improve the police force, because the public had a much better view of the police's actions than the police themselves, was not well received. Nor was the discovery that public reluctance to report a crime was understandable, since statistically those who reported crimes tended to suffer more negative outcomes from the police than those who committed them.

In general we need to understand that the police are particularly unlikely to report on the actions of fellow officers, and set policy on that basis.
 
Has this been published somewhere? I assume yes, but just curious because not sure.
 
African-Americans are twenty one times more likely to be killed by a police officer.

Long before the media started reporting on these stories, the numbers showed that we have a systemic problem that results in a shocking amount of injustice, and inevitably it is the poor and minorities who suffer the most when such things happen. We have a serious problem and we've had a serious problem for decades.

Rather than admit that we have a problem and offer solutions to fix the problem, your friend is trying a "both sides are exactly as bad" argument in an attempt to sound more reasonable, but leaving things as they are is anything but reasonable.

Frankly, I don't think your friend belongs on the bench. If he's not willing to do anything to fix the problem, then he is part of the problem.

Once again we see the disparate impact = discrimination crap. This came up on here a while ago and that 21x figure has big problem: Most people are at basically zero risk of getting shot by the police. It's mostly criminals that get shot--so you shouldn't be comparing the white population to the black population, but the white criminal population to the black criminal population. That 21x gets much smaller.

To get an even better picture compare the violent criminal populations. It gets still smaller.
 
African-Americans are twenty one times more likely to be killed by a police officer.

Long before the media started reporting on these stories, the numbers showed that we have a systemic problem that results in a shocking amount of injustice, and inevitably it is the poor and minorities who suffer the most when such things happen. We have a serious problem and we've had a serious problem for decades.

Rather than admit that we have a problem and offer solutions to fix the problem, your friend is trying a "both sides are exactly as bad" argument in an attempt to sound more reasonable, but leaving things as they are is anything but reasonable.

Frankly, I don't think your friend belongs on the bench. If he's not willing to do anything to fix the problem, then he is part of the problem.

Once again we see the disparate impact = discrimination crap. This came up on here a while ago and that 21x figure has big problem: Most people are at basically zero risk of getting shot by the police. It's mostly criminals that get shot--so you shouldn't be comparing the white population to the black population, but the white criminal population to the black criminal population. That 21x gets much smaller.

To get an even better picture compare the violent criminal populations. It gets still smaller.
Most of those shot and killed recently were not violent criminal. Missing license plate, selling individual cigarettes, failure on child care support, a teen holding a fake gun. Sure, some of these guys won't be winning Samaritan of the Year awards, but to suggest the recent deaths were of violent criminals is ridiculous.

About the only guy with a record record would be the man who died in custody in Baltimore.
 
Once again we see the disparate impact = discrimination crap. This came up on here a while ago and that 21x figure has big problem: Most people are at basically zero risk of getting shot by the police. It's mostly criminals that get shot--so you shouldn't be comparing the white population to the black population, but the white criminal population to the black criminal population. That 21x gets much smaller.

To get an even better picture compare the violent criminal populations. It gets still smaller.
Most of those shot and killed recently were not violent criminal. Missing license plate, selling individual cigarettes, failure on child care support, a teen holding a fake gun. Sure, some of these guys won't be winning Samaritan of the Year awards, but to suggest the recent deaths were of violent criminals is ridiculous.

About the only guy with a record record would be the man who died in custody in Baltimore.
And that obscures the basic issue that people with criminal records and/or alleged criminals are not supposed to be killed by the police just because they have a criminal record or may have committed a crime.
 
African-Americans are twenty one times more likely to be killed by a police officer.

Long before the media started reporting on these stories, the numbers showed that we have a systemic problem that results in a shocking amount of injustice, and inevitably it is the poor and minorities who suffer the most when such things happen. We have a serious problem and we've had a serious problem for decades.

Rather than admit that we have a problem and offer solutions to fix the problem, your friend is trying a "both sides are exactly as bad" argument in an attempt to sound more reasonable, but leaving things as they are is anything but reasonable.

Frankly, I don't think your friend belongs on the bench. If he's not willing to do anything to fix the problem, then he is part of the problem.

Once again we see the disparate impact = discrimination crap. This came up on here a while ago and that 21x figure has big problem: Most people are at basically zero risk of getting shot by the police. It's mostly criminals that get shot--so you shouldn't be comparing the white population to the black population, but the white criminal population to the black criminal population. That 21x gets much smaller.

To get an even better picture compare the violent criminal populations. It gets still smaller.

WTF! You're tell us to ignore the discrepancy between black innocents who get shot by police and white innocents who get shot by police?! That's probably the biggest gap there is.
 
WTF! You're tell us to ignore the discrepancy between black innocents who get shot by police and white innocents who get shot by police?! That's probably the biggest gap there is.

Ya, but if you exclude it from the data you're looking at then you don't see it and it's not a problem.
 
Once again we see the disparate impact = discrimination crap. This came up on here a while ago and that 21x figure has big problem: Most people are at basically zero risk of getting shot by the police. It's mostly criminals that get shot--so you shouldn't be comparing the white population to the black population, but the white criminal population to the black criminal population. That 21x gets much smaller.

To get an even better picture compare the violent criminal populations. It gets still smaller.

WTF! You're tell us to ignore the discrepancy between black innocents who get shot by police and white innocents who get shot by police?! That's probably the biggest gap there is.
Donchya know? Once you account for all of the relevant SES factors, there is never any racial gap.
 
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