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Cop Indicted For Murder

Seems the car was moving before the gunshot.
CLiTXGxWUAArMRG.jpg

Tenning and his body cam were not stationary.

We have three reference points in the first three shots--the steering wheel (note that it's off screen in the first one but we can figure out where it has to be), the passenger window frame and the car in the background. There is no possible movement of the camera that would cause the shift we see, that can only happen with either the car moving to the left or the parked car sliding to the right. Since we have no major event that could have slid the parked car to the right we are left with him driving to the left--he was rabbiting before the shot was fired.

Tenning was probably not dragged at all but instead fell/pushed himself back/was thrown back by the recoil of the WEAPON HE FIRED INTO THE HEAD OF A MAN WITH HIS HANDS IN THE AIR. We hear him RUNNING to catch up with the car. Not being dragged. You can clearly hear his breathing and his running steps.

It would help if you knew something about firearms. He fired a handgun, not an anti-tank rifle. There is nothing like the recoil you are envisioning.

When he points out how his pant leg shows he was 'dragged,' I cannot see ANY damage. If he had been dragged by a car that was speeding away, his pants would have been in shreds.

If he hadn't freed himself.

- - - Updated - - -

And it totally supports the fact that IF the car was moving (rather than the cop), it was moving barely inches and was therefore no danger to the cop at all. But it looks to me like the cop was the one moving - forward towards the front of Dubose's car. Look where Dubose's is in each frame.

It wasn't moving all that fast because he had just started to drive off.
 
Tenning was dragged by the car after Dubose is dead.
Seems the car was moving before the gunshot.
It wasn't. The car's forward motion begins immediately after the gunshot.

It's also pretty obvious that Tensing could not have been "dragged" by the car since at that point the only thing keeping him IN the car was the grip of his hand on Dubose' seatbelt.
 
… he was rabbiting before the shot was fired.
He possibly rolled a few (as in 2 or 3) feet while playing push-hands with the policeman.

Whether he rolled a bit, had only just started to drive away (so weirdly slowly), or was stationary, it all comes back to the same thing: So what?

If he hadn't freed himself.
Freed himself of his grip on the seatbelt.

Try again to name what Tensing was stuck to, very specifically. Base it on what we all see, and no more repeating the officer's blatant lie about his hand being stuck in the steering wheel or any visibly false conjectures about DuBose holding onto any part of Tensing's clothing or body. Tensing fell only after the car actually accelerated. Which was after he'd shot DuBose. Isn't it interesting it only finally accelerated in the way most people would expect a person intent on escape would do, only after he was shot in the head?

To whatever extent Tensing may have been in danger, he created ALL of that danger himself.
 
If he hadn't freed himself.
Freed himself from WHAT? The only thing keeping him in the car was his hand on the seatbelt. Dubose's hands were in the air when the shot was fired.

And Tensing was not being dragged; during his "Stop.... STOP!" engagement his body actually moves FORWARD with respect to the window.

Observe:

tensing1.png

Tensing lunges into the car: his foot is still on the ground

tensing2.png

Tensing yells "stop" the first time. See the reflection on the car's side panel. Not only is he still on his own two feet, but he is far enough away that his body is not touching the side panel yet.

tensing3.png

^ Tensing draws his gun. Dubose puts his hands up and Tensing is reaching for his seatbelt. He is not holding on to anything that would physically keep him attached to the car.

tensing4.png

^ Tensing grabs the seatbelt and leans FURTHER into the car, thrusting the gun towards Dubose's head. Note the angle of Tensing's arm; he is slightly IN FRONT of Dubose, pulling his seatbelt forward.

tensing5.png

^ Half a second after the gunshot kills the driver, the car begins moving forward. Tensing starts to fall back and a moment later the rear frame of the window makes contact with his hand (it doesn't STRIKE his hand; the car is still moving too slowly for that).


There's one really obvious flaw with the "he shot in self defense" theory: Tensing reached into the car with his LEFT hand while drawing the gun with his right. If the car had been dragging him, his left arm would have been pulled to the back of that window and Tensing would no longer be able to place his right arm into the window to shoot Dubose in the head.

So it's really very simple. Tensing was NOT dragged by the car. Not thirty feet. Not thirty inches. He shot Dubose in the head and then threw himself backwards as the car began to move.
 
As for the "getting dragged 30 feet" here's something to chew on.


tensing6a.png

^ Here is the car that was in front of Dubose' car when he was pulled over:

tensing6.png

^ And here it is after Tensing has fallen and rolled back to his feet, beginning pursuit.


When tensing falls over, there is also a car in the background immediately behind him. This car is not visible at any position FORWARD of Dubose's car and is somewhere behind and to the left of it. That Tensing lands NEAR this car in the video suggests that he hit the ground within a few feet 5 to 10 at most -- from where he originally stopped Dubose.
 
I'm sorry, when was the anti tank rifle mentioned?
 
Tenning and his body cam were not stationary.

We have three reference points in the first three shots--the steering wheel (note that it's off screen in the first one but we can figure out where it has to be), the passenger window frame and the car in the background. There is no possible movement of the camera that would cause the shift we see, that can only happen with either the car moving to the left or the parked car sliding to the right. Since we have no major event that could have slid the parked car to the right we are left with him driving to the left--he was rabbiting before the shot was fired.

No. Please look again. The vehicle framed by the passenger window isn't the only thing that moved with respect to the window frame. So did Dubose's head--it moved backwards with reference to the upright vehicle window frame. The angle at which the images were shot changed because they were taken by the video camera on the officer's body and the officer moved. Dubose's position possibly changed because he was shot in the head.

It would help if you knew something about firearms. He fired a handgun, not an anti-tank rifle. There is nothing like the recoil you are envisioning.

With one hand, he fired. Not with a second hand acting to stabilize. At near point blank range. I still cannot figure out how that happened if he was being dragged along by the car.

It's not like in the cowboy movies, Loren.

When he points out how his pant leg shows he was 'dragged,' I cannot see ANY damage. If he had been dragged by a car that was speeding away, his pants would have been in shreds.

If he hadn't freed himself.

You mean if he hadn't let go of the seatbelt. If he had been dragged even a little bit, his pants would have been really messed up, visibly showing skin. Heck, I got more messed up falling from my bicycle when I was learning to ride a bike.



And it totally supports the fact that IF the car was moving (rather than the cop), it was moving barely inches and was therefore no danger to the cop at all. But it looks to me like the cop was the one moving - forward towards the front of Dubose's car. Look where Dubose's is in each frame.

It wasn't moving all that fast because he had just started to drive off.

But but but but you said he was being dragged along for 30 feet and only barely escaped with his life and HAD to fire his gun into Dubose's head at point blank range. From where he lay on the street from being dragged. It's just a bit of noise we hear and not the officer's running steps and breathing as he runs alongside the vehicle with a dead driver that then comes to a halt on the sidewalk, having taken out numerous low lying branches visible behind the car.
 
If he hadn't freed himself.
Freed himself from WHAT? The only thing keeping him in the car was his hand on the seatbelt. Dubose's hands were in the air when the shot was fired.

And Tensing was not being dragged; during his "Stop.... STOP!" engagement his body actually moves FORWARD with respect to the window.

Observe:

tensing1.png

Tensing lunges into the car: his foot is still on the ground

tensing2.png

Tensing yells "stop" the first time. See the reflection on the car's side panel. Not only is he still on his own two feet, but he is far enough away that his body is not touching the side panel yet.

tensing3.png

^ Tensing draws his gun. Dubose puts his hands up and Tensing is reaching for his seatbelt. He is not holding on to anything that would physically keep him attached to the car.

tensing4.png

^ Tensing grabs the seatbelt and leans FURTHER into the car, thrusting the gun towards Dubose's head. Note the angle of Tensing's arm; he is slightly IN FRONT of Dubose, pulling his seatbelt forward.

tensing5.png

^ Half a second after the gunshot kills the driver, the car begins moving forward. Tensing starts to fall back and a moment later the rear frame of the window makes contact with his hand (it doesn't STRIKE his hand; the car is still moving too slowly for that).


There's one really obvious flaw with the "he shot in self defense" theory: Tensing reached into the car with his LEFT hand while drawing the gun with his right. If the car had been dragging him, his left arm would have been pulled to the back of that window and Tensing would no longer be able to place his right arm into the window to shoot Dubose in the head.

So it's really very simple. Tensing was NOT dragged by the car. Not thirty feet. Not thirty inches. He shot Dubose in the head and then threw himself backwards as the car began to move.

Go stick your arm and head into your friends car window and have them step on the gas. Then you'll see how armchair simplistic your notion is that him running along side the car and also being pulled along against his will are mutually exclusive. He had to run along side it at first or his arm and possible head would have gotten caught in there. It is clear cut that he shot only after the car had moved 5-10 feet forward. Whether he was technically "dragged" with limp legs for that distance or ran along as he tried to react to a danger created by the driver hitting the gas is a meaningless irrelevance.

Derec's frames, are far better at showing where the car was relative to other objects right before and during the shot. Note in the 3rd frame that Eddie presents, it is clear that the drivers seat isn't even parallel yet to the right-hand (from the officers view) sidewalk on that cross street and you can only see the right 20% of the SUV. By the Derec's second frame, the officer is not yet pointing his gun and yet that right hand sidewalk is already out of view and the driver's seat is already parallel with the SUV, which is now in full view. By the time the gun is fired, the drivers seat is now almost parallel with the row of bushes that were on the other side of the cross street from where the officer first reached into the car. IOW, the shot was only fired after the car had moved forward 5-10 feet (the width of that sidestreet).
Also, it is total nonsense that the driver ever "put his hands in the air" as though to surrender. His pulls his left arm up and away from the officer to avoid his grasp, but from the time the officer tries to open the door to the shooting 5 seconds later, the drivers right hand never leaves the wheel except to start the car at minute 2:44 which is when the cop yells "stop" and lunges in the window, and he puts that hand back on the wheel as he drives away, prior to the cop pointing his gun. By the time the cop shoots about 2 seconds after the driver and started the car and hit the gas, and after about 5-10 feet of movement. The cop shoots and immediately tumbles to the ground, showing the car was already going too fast for him to keep his balance (No, it is not possible for that gun to have recoil that would cause that). Yes, he was probably trying to run along side of it because his head and arm were in the car when it started to move and that would be the instinctual reflex as would holding onto the seatbelt.

At the point he asked the driver to stop (prior to pulling his gun) he had every reason to arrest him. He was trying to hide a bottle of booze at his feet, had no license, refused to cooperate, and was trying to flee the scene. The cops mistake was trying to stop him by lunging into the window, but once he did that, the driver put the cop at serious risk by hitting the gas. The cop was in danger when he fired. He had to let go and push himself free of the car hoping the now moving window jam didn't catch his neck or that he didn't fall under the back tires. That takes more calm and repression of the instinct to grab the driver than anyone criticizing this cop likely has.

That said, he probably should not have pulled the gun to try and stop him or reached in to put himself at risk when the driver drove off. These, combined with this criminals criminal actions to try and flee, set up the situation within which the officer fired possibly out of self-preserving panic or possibly to stop a fleeing criminal who at that point was under reasonable suspicion for much more than what he was pulled over for. At worst, its reckless manslaughter. I think its likely that he initially held on as a reflex, but knew he couldn't hold on anymore, so he fired then pushed himself away from the moving car. IOW, he fired to stop a fleeing suspect. Unless the suspicion was for a violent crime, then lethal force is illegal and criminal but still well short of murder. But its nonsense to claim he was only a suspect for a missing plate. He was a DUI suspect, and his refusal to show ID combined with his clear act of fleeing means he was likely on the run from or currently committing a more serious crime.

BTW, if we are going to allow DUI that results in deaths to be prosecuted as homicide (which is currently the case), then isn't a DUI suspect that attempts to drive off engaging in attempted homicide? What level of force should we allow cops to use to stop a suspect that is fleeing with a deadly weapon where there is clear intent to use it, and how should that apply to a DUI suspect driving off, who if drunk, essentially is in the act of using a deadly weapon like a guy firing a gun into the air (which can kill people randomly)? This is a more general issue about principles of law, so I'll start a new thread about it, but its worth noting there was a basis to suspect that at minimum this guy was trying to speed off while under suspicion of DUI.
 
Go stick your arm and head into your friends car window and have them step on the gas....blah blah blah..
The police officer shot and killed Dubose. The goosestepping bootlickers of police authority justify his actions with the counterfactual assertion that he was in danger. The video does not clearly show it. But more importantly, if this officer had enough time to pull out his gun, aim it and kill Dubose, he had enough time to get himself out of any danger he had foolishly placed himself in.

One hopes that more actual and clearer evidence arises at trial so that the verdict (whatever it is) can be accepted as a fair and just.
 
As for the "getting dragged 30 feet" here's something to chew on.


tensing6a.png

^ Here is the car that was in front of Dubose' car when he was pulled over:

tensing6.png

^ And here it is after Tensing has fallen and rolled back to his feet, beginning pursuit.


When tensing falls over, there is also a car in the background immediately behind him. This car is not visible at any position FORWARD of Dubose's car and is somewhere behind and to the left of it. That Tensing lands NEAR this car in the video suggests that he hit the ground within a few feet 5 to 10 at most -- from where he originally stopped Dubose.

Way to shoot yourself in the foot. The back of that white car is about 35 feet from the officer in the first image. That guy next to that car is shorter than each of the segments in the sidewalk he is walking on, making each segment about 7 feet, with 3 segments between that sidestreet (where the SUV is) and the back of the car). That is 28 feet, plus the cop parallel with the near side of that sidestreet, so that is another 10 feet for 38 total. In the second frame, right after the cop stands back up, he is only 10 feet from the rear of that car. That means he was reaching into the car and 2 seconds later was on the ground 20-25 feet down the road. Not to mention he was also now on the other side of the road from the car because the moving criminals car not only pulled him forward but pushed him backward due to the driver steering to his left to try and get around that white car as he tried to flee, all of which he did before being shot in the head.
 
If it was that cut and dried then why did Tensing and his fellow officers feel the need to lie about what happened?
 
I'm sorry, when was the anti tank rifle mentioned?

In an ideological effort to deny that the officer was movements and tumble were in any way affected by the momentum of the moving vehicle driven by the fleeing criminal, Toni made the truly absurd claim that the officer (whom she asserts had two feet firmly on the ground at the time) was thrown backward and to the ground by the incredible recoil on his handgun. Loren, pointed out that this is utterly impossible unless the gun had the notorious collar bone breaking recoil of an ant-tank rife capable of piercing tanks. Then ksen displayed his own ignorance of firearms by implying that such guns don't even exist, despite a simple google search required to establish their reality and validity of Loren's point.
 
I'm sorry, when was the anti tank rifle mentioned?

In an ideological effort to deny that the officer was movements and tumble were in any way affected by the momentum of the moving vehicle driven by the fleeing criminal, Toni made the truly absurd claim that the officer (whom she asserts had two feet firmly on the ground at the time) was thrown backward and to the ground by the incredible recoil on his handgun. Loren, pointed out that this is utterly impossible unless the gun had the notorious collar bone breaking recoil of an ant-tank rife capable of piercing tanks. Then ksen displayed his own ignorance of firearms by implying that such guns don't even exist, despite a simple google search required to establish their reality and validity of Loren's point.

No, I didn't. What a bunch of garbage.

Loren mentioned the anti tank rifle in post 201.
 
Go stick your arm and head into your friends car window and have them step on the gas....blah blah blah..
The police officer shot and killed Dubose. The goosestepping bootlickers of police authority justify his actions with the counterfactual assertion that he was in danger. The video does not clearly show it. But more importantly, if this officer had enough time to pull out his gun, aim it and kill Dubose, he had enough time to get himself out of any danger he had foolishly placed himself in.

One hopes that more actual and clearer evidence arises at trial so that the verdict (whatever it is) can be accepted as a fair and just.

Try actually reading my full post. I acknowledge that the cop seems to have pulled his gun inappropriately to initially stop DuBose from fleeing which is was definitely in the act of doing when he started the car prompting the cop to yell "stop" and reach in. But once DuBose began to accelerate, which he definitely did prior to the shot, he put the cop in danger and the cop reacted under that duress. I already said, he might have shot DuBose more as an attempt to stop a fleeing criminal (suspected of being a danger to others on the road), but that isn't murder and it doesn't change the fact that he was in danger due to DuBose attempted to flee.
 
The police officer shot and killed Dubose. The goosestepping bootlickers of police authority justify his actions with the counterfactual assertion that he was in danger. The video does not clearly show it. But more importantly, if this officer had enough time to pull out his gun, aim it and kill Dubose, he had enough time to get himself out of any danger he had foolishly placed himself in.

One hopes that more actual and clearer evidence arises at trial so that the verdict (whatever it is) can be accepted as a fair and just.

Try actually reading my full post. I acknowledge that the cop seems to have pulled his gun inappropriately to initially stop DuBose from fleeing which is was definitely in the act of doing when he started the car prompting the cop to yell "stop" and reach in. But once DuBose began to accelerate, which he definitely did prior to the shot, he put the cop in danger and the cop reacted under that duress. I already said, he might have shot DuBose more as an attempt to stop a fleeing criminal (suspected of being a danger to others on the road), but that isn't murder and it doesn't change the fact that he was in danger due to DuBose attempted to flee.
I've heard that bootpolish tastes like chicken. Can you confirm that?
 
Try actually reading my full post. I acknowledge that the cop seems to have pulled his gun inappropriately to initially stop DuBose from fleeing which is was definitely in the act of doing when he started the car prompting the cop to yell "stop" and reach in. But once DuBose began to accelerate, which he definitely did prior to the shot, he put the cop in danger and the cop reacted under that duress. I already said, he might have shot DuBose more as an attempt to stop a fleeing criminal (suspected of being a danger to others on the road), but that isn't murder and it doesn't change the fact that he was in danger due to DuBose attempted to flee.
I've heard that bootpolish tastes like chicken. Can you confirm that?

Good argument. Such intellectual prowess. Did you keep the cracker jack box that you got your college degree from?
 
In an ideological effort to deny that the officer was movements and tumble were in any way affected by the momentum of the moving vehicle driven by the fleeing criminal, Toni made the truly absurd claim that the officer (whom she asserts had two feet firmly on the ground at the time) was thrown backward and to the ground by the incredible recoil on his handgun. Loren, pointed out that this is utterly impossible unless the gun had the notorious collar bone breaking recoil of an ant-tank rife capable of piercing tanks. Then ksen displayed his own ignorance of firearms by implying that such guns don't even exist, despite a simple google search required to establish their reality and validity of Loren's point.

No, I didn't. What a bunch of garbage.

Loren mentioned the anti tank rifle in post 201.

Yes, Loren mentioned the anti tank rifle as the type of gun required to have the kind of recoil force you claimed when you said
Toni said:
"was thrown back by the recoil of the WEAPON HE FIRED INTO THE HEAD OF A MAN WITH HIS HANDS IN THE AIR."

What a bunch of garbage indeed. I just can't decide what is more putrid garbage, your original claim, you current proven false denial that you said it, or the second half of your quote where your claim DuBoses had his "hands in the air" when shot, when the stills definitely show that he right hand was on and steering the already moving car before and when he was shot.
 
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