Covid-19 miscellany

[blastula]

Fake news.

 

[TSwizzle]

Wait, how is this possible?

As of Tuesday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had recorded 386,233 deaths involving Covid-19 in 2021, compared with 385,343 in 2020. The final number for this year will be higher, not only because there is more than a month left but because it takes time for local agencies to report deaths to the C.D.C. Covid-19 has also accounted for a higher percentage of U.S. deaths this year than it did last year: about 13 percent compared with 11 percent.

NYT

Biden needs to be held to account if this is true.

Glad to see that you've finally come around to agreeing that vaccine mandates are appropriate and necessary.

Bore off.

 

[crazyfingers]

Bore off.

How shall I Bore off my lord?

 

[crazyfingers]

And yet Florida has the one of the lowest case and death rates in the nation.

Why do you say thing that are simply false?

Florida is 8th highest all time death rate per capita among the 50 states with 285/100,000

Florida is 15 out of 50 for the most cases per capita with 17,469/100,000

 

[TomC]

Maybe it will get me out of some of the thanksgiving cooking

Heh!

My first shot was a complete nothingburger.

My second was much more trouble. I felt fluish and sickly for a couple of days.

I totally milked it. Usually, I'm the one bringing mother-in-law stuff. Racing in everytime she wanted a snack, or more ice in her drink, or whatever. For a couple of days, I laid in a recliner. I needed some juice. I wanted some soup!
No, not that kind of soup! The kind with more broccoli in it. And chicken. Well, go to the store then!

Oh yeah. I totally milked it while I could.
Tom

 

[TSwizzle]

Sure thing, a guy making it easy for you to protect yourself from a deadly disease is to blame instead of the plague rats.

“Plague rats”, how quaint. But in any event, for the vast majority of people, vaccinated or not, covid 19 is not a deadly disease.

 

[crazyfingers]

Sure thing, a guy making it easy for you to protect yourself from a deadly disease is to blame instead of the plague rats.

“Plague rats”, how quaint. But in any event, for the vast majority of people, vaccinated or not, covid 19 is not a deadly disease.

So lets see, if it's not a problem, why do you have your panties in a twist in your comment above on Biden.

And you know damn well that it's the anti-mask, anti-vax plague rats who caused the rates in 2021 to be worse than 2020 and you know damn well that it's the people who hold your very position on masks and vaccination who are the vast majority of 2021 case.

I think you just enjoy throwing shit on the floor.

And how often do drunk drivers end up injuring or killing someone and when will you be calling for the legalization of drunk driving? Your repeated unwillingness to address that reveals how bankrupt your shifting positions are.

 

[TSwizzle]

“Plague rats”, how quaint. But in any event, for the vast majority of people, vaccinated or not, covid 19 is not a deadly disease.

So lets see, if it's not a problem, why do you have your panties in a twist in your comment above on Biden.

Regret to inform you, panties are just fine. I thought it was interesting that the NYT frame it in such a way.

And you know damn well that it's the anti-mask, anti-vax plague rats who caused the rates in 2021 to be worse than 2020

I know no such thing. It’s you that claims to know these things but provide no proof.

and you know damn well that it's the people who hold your very position on masks and vaccination who are the vast majority of 2021 case.

You really don’t pay attention.

 

[crazyfingers]

“Plague rats”, how quaint. But in any event, for the vast majority of people, vaccinated or not, covid 19 is not a deadly disease.

So lets see, if it's not a problem, why do you have your panties in a twist in your comment above on Biden.

Regret to inform you, panties are just fine. I thought it was interesting that the NYT frame it in such a way.

And you know damn well that it's the anti-mask, anti-vax plague rats who caused the rates in 2021 to be worse than 2020

I know no such thing. It’s you that claims to know these things but provide no proof.

and you know damn well that it's the people who hold your very position on masks and vaccination who are the vast majority of 2021 case.

You really don’t pay attention.

Interesting that you said in your own words "Biden needs to be held to account if this is true. " You made no comment on how NYT framed it. You are trying to deflect from your obvious contradiction. First you want to blame Biden for the 2021 cases being high and then you say that it's no bring problem.

If you don't know that it's the anti-mask and anti-vax who account for the huge numbers of cases then you clearly are making no effort to educate yourself.

I do not believe that you've addressed why drunk driving should or should not be legal. I believe that you've avoided addressing it like the plague. Please direct me to a post where you've explained why it's OK for plague rats to spread the virus and have also addressed one way or another why drunk driving should or should not be legal.

 

[TSwizzle]

Interesting that you said in your own words "Biden needs to be held to account if this is true. " You made no comment on how NYT framed it. You are trying to deflect from your obvious contradiction. First you want to blame Biden for the 2021 cases being high and then you say that it's no bring problem.

I’m not blaming Biden for 2021 cases, he has no control over such things.

If you don't know that it's the anti-mask and anti-vax who account for the huge numbers of cases then you clearly are making no effort to educate yourself.

I’m plenty educated on it.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Flu usually only kills those already severely weakened. If the flu didn't get them chances are something else soon would.

1. Suppose I say "COVID usually only kills those fully vaccinated people who are already severely weakened.". Do you have evidence that the 'usually' is more so for the flu, and by a significant margin?
To put it in other words, do you have good evidence that the flu is less dangerous than COVID is to fully vaccinated people, and also by a margin that would justify radically different treatments.

Further, suppose you add face masks - good and properly used. Do you think COVID poses overall a significantly greater risk to fully vaccinated people when unvaccinated people are wearing good masks, than the flu?

2. Even if they are severely weakened, it does not mean something else will get them - especially not if respiratory illnesses are not around.

No. Prior infection provides stronger immunity than the vaccine. The vaccine provides broader immunity. They are different things. If you get the virus your resistance to that strain is very high--but you don't have very good protection against other strains and thus reinfection is likely. This is why we have never had a coronavirus vaccine before--they're too good at evading. Only the vaccines based on targeting a reasonably stable part of the virus have worked.

1. Again, evidence?

2. Delta makes up nearly all cases. If someone has stronger immunity against delta than they'd get with the best vaccines, it does not seem to make sense not to count them as immunized.

3. Sinopharm's vaccine targets the whole virus. And it's not as good as viral vector vaccines or mRNA vaccines - though it's unclear which immunity's might last longer -, but it does work. It was made with the original strain. And it still works against Delta - else, we would not be opening up pretty much everything over here, while fatalities continue to fall.

Be very wary of anything on medrxiv. That's a pre-print server, there is no verification of what's posted. The death cultists have been publishing all sorts of crap on there recently, elementary math errors, outright fabrication and the like, then they point to the articles as if they have scientific merit.

Well, I posted some evidence. I found no replies debunking it, and good reviews from other scientists. It's not conclusive, and I said it was not and the jury was still out. So, yes, I am careful enough.

Do you have something better?

The jury came back long ago, it's just the death cultists are trying to pull a 1/6.

Evidence?

IIRC it's about 50%. Useful at a population level, not much protection at the individual level.

Actually, I posted much earlier the results of a local study, which was far larger than the original trials.

Link (in Spanish, but you can use Google translate if you want): https://www.lanacion.com.ar/socieda...acunas-que-se-aplican-en-el-pais-nid01072021/

At least over here, it's 61.6% first dose, 84% after two (that was before Delta, but still vs. variants, mostly Gamma and Lambda at the time, even though it's based on the original strain; Delta now dominates, but things are getting better rather than worse). But that is the protection against symptomatic infection. It is far higher against serious cases including death.

I think you may have been thinking about Sinovac's vaccine, which is also a dead-virus vaccine, but for some reason it's proven considerably less effective than Sinopharm's from what I read. Perhaps the people making the former messed up at some point.

Politics.

How so?
Are you saying they're trying to be friendly with China?

 

[lpetrich]

Republicans Fight Covid Mandates, Then Blame Biden as Cases Rise - The New York Times
"Republicans have fought mask requirements and vaccine mandates for months, but as coronavirus infections again rise, they are blaming the president for failing to end the health crisis."

Sort of like killing one's parents and then begging for mercy because one is an orphan.

It is much like Mitch McConnell's policy of obstructing the Democrats and then bleat about how ineffective they are.

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy made that attack during his filibuster of the vote on BBB:

But among his most audacious assertions was that Mr. Biden was to blame for the country’s failure to quell the pandemic.

Mr. McCarthy used this line of attack even as members of his own Republican Party have spent months flouting mask ordinances and blocking the president’s vaccine mandates, and the party’s base has undermined vaccination drives while rallying around those who refuse the vaccine. Intensive care units and morgues have been strained to capacity by the unvaccinated, a demographic dominated by those who voted last year for President Donald J. Trump.

Some Trumpies claim that Trump deserves the credit for COVID-19 vaccines. What do they have to say about all their fellow Trumpie anti-vaxxers?

As of mid-September, 90 percent of adult Democrats had been vaccinated, compared with 58 percent of adult Republicans.

Yet Mr. McCarthy, the House Republican leader, pressed his point: “I took President Biden at his word; I took him at his word when he said he was going to get Covid under control,” he declared in the dead of night. “Unfortunately, more Americans have died this year than last year under Covid.”

As cases surge once again in some parts of the country, Republicans have hit on a new line of attack: The president has failed on a central campaign promise, to tame the pandemic that his predecessor systematically downplayed. Democrats are incredulous, dismissing the strategy as another strand of spaghetti thrown at the wall.

White House spokesman Andrew Bates hit back hard: “If Covid-19 and inflation had lobbyists to help them kill more American jobs, Kevin McCarthy would be their favorite member of Congress,” he said. “He is actively undermining the fight against Covid, which is driving inflation.”

And Chris Taylor, a spokesman for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, called House Republicans “Covid’s biggest promoter” for “recklessly hand-waving lifesaving vaccines” and for promoting ivermectin, an antiparasitic drug falsely said to cure Covid-19.

“When Republicans abandoned the American people in the middle of a global crisis, House Democrats amped up vaccine distribution to crush the pandemic, reopened schools, small businesses and delivered a massive monthly middle-class tax cut,” Mr. Taylor said.

At least the Democrats are fighting back, and not apologizing to the Republicans.

Republicans respond that they are considering economic impacts, as if one has to choose.

 

[lpetrich]

Republican lawmakers are continuing to try to block vaccine mandates at the local, state and federal levels. ...

Later that month, Republican senators introduced legislation to prohibit federal agencies from requiring proof of vaccination. ...

As Mr. McCarthy faulted Mr. Biden for failing to stop the virus, he also criticized him for demanding people get vaccinated, even health care workers. Mr. Biden, he said, “fired workers who were working because they wouldn’t comply with his Covid mandates. These were the same people who were heroes a year before.”

Very misleading. And I wouldn't be surprised if it was *deliberately* misleading.

 

[ZiprHead]

Interesting that you said in your own words "Biden needs to be held to account if this is true. " You made no comment on how NYT framed it. You are trying to deflect from your obvious contradiction. First you want to blame Biden for the 2021 cases being high and then you say that it's no bring problem.

I’m not blaming Biden for 2021 cases, he has no control over such things.

If you don't know that it's the anti-mask and anti-vax who account for the huge numbers of cases then you clearly are making no effort to educate yourself.

I’m plenty educated on it.

In light of your previous posts, you are making absolutely no sense at all.

 

[Ruth Harris]

Interesting that you said in your own words "Biden needs to be held to account if this is true. " You made no comment on how NYT framed it. You are trying to deflect from your obvious contradiction. First you want to blame Biden for the 2021 cases being high and then you say that it's no bring problem.

I’m not blaming Biden for 2021 cases, he has no control over such things.

If you don't know that it's the anti-mask and anti-vax who account for the huge numbers of cases then you clearly are making no effort to educate yourself.

I’m plenty educated on it.

You can't blame Biden for the deaths without also blaming him for the cases; one is a direct result of the other. They would not have died from COVID if they had not been infected with it.

Ruth

 

[TSwizzle]

You can't blame Biden for the deaths without also blaming him for the cases;

Why not? Some in here blamed Trump for the deaths in 2020.

But I’m not actually blaming Biden, just having a dig at those on here that were quick to blame Trump but unsurprisingly silent on sleepy Joe.

 

[TomC]

Some in here blamed Trump for the deaths in 2020.

I'm one and I have no trouble explaining why. I'm also blaming Trump for most of the 2021 deaths.
Feel free to ask why.

Tom

 

[crazyfingers]

I'm one and I have no trouble explaining why. I'm also blaming Trump for most of the 2021 deaths.
Feel free to ask why.

Tom

Do you suppose TS would be able to explain why Trump is deserving of blame while Biden is not? I think that he could but will not because it would destroy his shtick.

 

[crazyfingers]

Why Retailers Are Fighting a Vaccine Mandate Before the Holidays (Published 2021)

The Biden administration has called on major companies to help fight the pandemic. Big chains want to get past the holiday staffing crunch first.

www.nytimes.com

Just another story about how some businesses, especially retailers, are worried about the labor shortage and that if they required vaccination if it would be even harder to find employees. But I've frequently wondered the reverse. To what extent is it the case that people don't want to take job openings because the employer is NOT requiring vaccination?

If I was looking for a job, there is no way that I'd take one at a place where vaccination are not required. I'd take the job at the employer who does require vaccination.

And as the linked story point out, if you are considering going shopping, would you shop at a store that requires that employee vaccination or one that does not? I think that the answer is obvious.

I wish there was data to test these retailers assumptions that it would be harder to attract employees if they required vaccination. Maybe it would be easier. The answer probably depends on the number of Trumpers at the particular location. I'd still like to see real data than just accept that required vaccination actually would make hiring harder instead of easier.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Flu usually only kills those already severely weakened. If the flu didn't get them chances are something else soon would.

1. Suppose I say "COVID usually only kills those fully vaccinated people who are already severely weakened.". Do you have evidence that the 'usually' is more so for the flu, and by a significant margin?
To put it in other words, do you have good evidence that the flu is less dangerous than COVID is to fully vaccinated people, and also by a margin that would justify radically different treatments.

Further, suppose you add face masks - good and properly used. Do you think COVID poses overall a significantly greater risk to fully vaccinated people when unvaccinated people are wearing good masks, than the flu?

We have seen that Covid precautions are very effective against the flu.

2. Even if they are severely weakened, it does not mean something else will get them - especially not if respiratory illnesses are not around.

It's not just other infections, the people too weak to fight off flu are generally close to death.

No. Prior infection provides stronger immunity than the vaccine. The vaccine provides broader immunity. They are different things. If you get the virus your resistance to that strain is very high--but you don't have very good protection against other strains and thus reinfection is likely. This is why we have never had a coronavirus vaccine before--they're too good at evading. Only the vaccines based on targeting a reasonably stable part of the virus have worked.

1. Again, evidence?

It's been in the news repeatedly.

2. Delta makes up nearly all cases. If someone has stronger immunity against delta than they'd get with the best vaccines, it does not seem to make sense not to count them as immunized.

Those who have been infected with Delta are basically immune for now. There will be another variant in time, though.

3. Sinopharm's vaccine targets the whole virus. And it's not as good as viral vector vaccines or mRNA vaccines - though it's unclear which immunity's might last longer -, but it does work. It was made with the original strain. And it still works against Delta - else, we would not be opening up pretty much everything over here, while fatalities continue to fall.

Fatalities are falling because so many of the vulnerable have either survived or died.

Be very wary of anything on medrxiv. That's a pre-print server, there is no verification of what's posted. The death cultists have been publishing all sorts of crap on there recently, elementary math errors, outright fabrication and the like, then they point to the articles as if they have scientific merit.

Well, I posted some evidence. I found no replies debunking it, and good reviews from other scientists. It's not conclusive, and I said it was not and the jury was still out. So, yes, I am careful enough.

Generally we don't have the skill to rebut medrxiv stuff. See what the experts say about it.

The jury came back long ago, it's just the death cultists are trying to pull a 1/6.

Evidence?

Horse, water.

IIRC it's about 50%. Useful at a population level, not much protection at the individual level.

Actually, I posted much earlier the results of a local study, which was far larger than the original trials.

Link (in Spanish, but you can use Google translate if you want): https://www.lanacion.com.ar/socieda...acunas-que-se-aplican-en-el-pais-nid01072021/

At least over here, it's 61.6% first dose, 84% after two (that was before Delta, but still vs. variants, mostly Gamma and Lambda at the time, even though it's based on the original strain; Delta now dominates, but things are getting better rather than worse). But that is the protection against symptomatic infection. It is far higher against serious cases including death.

Exactly--before Delta.

I think you may have been thinking about Sinovac's vaccine, which is also a dead-virus vaccine, but for some reason it's proven considerably less effective than Sinopharm's from what I read. Perhaps the people making the former messed up at some point.

Ok, I could have mixed them up. I'm talking about the killed-virus Chinese vaccine.