Creeping towards World War Three

[LordKiran]

Some people want to think of this as a proxy Sunni-Shia war. Except it isn't. Syria is 73% Sunni. Iran, it's ally, is Shia. They are on the same side as the Eastern Orthodox Russians.

This is a proxy war, which is why I think this could lead to World War Three. Russia is taking advantage of the US being so inept over the last two decades in both diplomacy and military activity. The Russian sphere of influence in the Middle-East is growing, the US sphere of influence is shrinking. The military leaders of the US don't like that. This is a proxy war between the US and those countries that openly defy the US sphere of influence. That's why Russia claiming control of the airspace after the US military shot down an Syrian warplane is significant.

Some say this is because the US is the world's policeman, a role that isn't necessarily appreciated by the rest of the world. But here in the US we tolerate wrong-house warrantless no-knock raids that result in fatalities, so if the US is the world's policeman then it appears that the US treats other countries the way it treats its own citizens. And people wonder why countries like Syria invited the Russians in.

When was the last time a proxy war even escalated to full-on war? nevermind a world war for a second.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

terrorism
ˈtɛrərɪzəm/
noun
noun: terrorism

the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
"the fight against terrorism"

You don't get to make up your own definitions.

Note the "civilian" part--got some evidence we are attacking civilians?

Hint: Plenty of combatants over there don't wear uniforms.

Syria has not threatened the US. The US is committing acts of war against the government of Syria. What business is it of the US whether some of the combatants in Syria aren't wearing uniforms?

There comes a point where we get fed up with the mass murder of civilians. Syria reached that point.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Some people want to think of this as a proxy Sunni-Shia war. Except it isn't. Syria is 73% Sunni. Iran, it's ally, is Shia. They are on the same side as the Eastern Orthodox Russians.

This is a proxy war, which is why I think this could lead to World War Three. Russia is taking advantage of the US being so inept over the last two decades in both diplomacy and military activity. The Russian sphere of influence in the Middle-East is growing, the US sphere of influence is shrinking. The military leaders of the US don't like that. This is a proxy war between the US and those countries that openly defy the US sphere of influence. That's why Russia claiming control of the airspace after the US military shot down an Syrian warplane is significant.

Some say this is because the US is the world's policeman, a role that isn't necessarily appreciated by the rest of the world. But here in the US we tolerate wrong-house warrantless no-knock raids that result in fatalities, so if the US is the world's policeman then it appears that the US treats other countries the way it treats its own citizens. And people wonder why countries like Syria invited the Russians in.

Russia is simply going back to it's old ways of propping up any bad guy that will side with them that they can. They quit for a while when their system collapsed but now they're back at it.

Both sides know how to keep it from turning into WWIII. I'm much more worried about things like India/Pakistan, or even China's expansionism.

 

[blastula]

I don't give primary blame to Trump.

He's relaxed the rules of engagement, bombings are up.

I think he's not concentrating on foreign policy.

Compared to anything else? How do you figure?

There's no clear indication he is concentrating on anything other than his golf game, shilling for his businesses, and obstructing justice.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

There comes a point where we get fed up with the mass murder of civilians. Syria reached that point.

You were just a few posts ago excusing US actions by saying not all combatants are in uniform. Now you are saying that since they aren't in uniform then Assad is clearly mass murdering civilians.

Russia is simply going back to it's old ways of propping up any bad guy that will side with them that they can. They quit for a while when their system collapsed but now they're back at it.

Both sides know how to keep it from turning into WWIII. I'm much more worried about things like India/Pakistan, or even China's expansionism.

So it is bad when Russia does it but good when the US does it? That's pretty interesting. And predictable.

Will you attempt to hold a solid standard? Hold the US to the same standard you hold other countries to? Actually you can't, because your solid standard is "do what the US says".

Then there is that little matter of your blind faith in our military leadership.

 

[Will Wiley]

Some people want to think of this as a proxy Sunni-Shia war. Except it isn't. Syria is 73% Sunni. Iran, it's ally, is Shia. They are on the same side as the Eastern Orthodox Russians.

This is a proxy war, which is why I think this could lead to World War Three. Russia is taking advantage of the US being so inept over the last two decades in both diplomacy and military activity. The Russian sphere of influence in the Middle-East is growing, the US sphere of influence is shrinking. The military leaders of the US don't like that. This is a proxy war between the US and those countries that openly defy the US sphere of influence. That's why Russia claiming control of the airspace after the US military shot down an Syrian warplane is significant.

Some say this is because the US is the world's policeman, a role that isn't necessarily appreciated by the rest of the world. But here in the US we tolerate wrong-house warrantless no-knock raids that result in fatalities, so if the US is the world's policeman then it appears that the US treats other countries the way it treats its own citizens. And people wonder why countries like Syria invited the Russians in.

When was the last time a proxy war even escalated to full-on war? nevermind a world war for a second.

Which proxy wars like this didn't

 

[Will Wiley]

terrorism
ˈtɛrərɪzəm/
noun
noun: terrorism

the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
"the fight against terrorism"

You don't get to make up your own definitions.

Note the "civilian" part--got some evidence we are attacking civilians?

Hint: Plenty of combatants over there don't wear uniforms.

Syria has not threatened the US. The US is committing acts of war against the government of Syria. What business is it of the US whether some of the combatants in Syria aren't wearing uniforms?

There comes a point where we get fed up with the mass murder of civilians. Syria reached that point.

The mass murder of civilians happens when America gets involved.
Iraq is just one example. There had never ever been a suicide bomber in Iraq until America got involved. Not to mention half a million children dead from your sanctions. You really need to fuck off with your "help".
You sit comfortably in Nevada cheering on Americas criminal adventures overseas, blind to the damage you cause

 

[whichphilosophy]

Some people want to think of this as a proxy Sunni-Shia war. Except it isn't. Syria is 73% Sunni. Iran, it's ally, is Shia. They are on the same side as the Eastern Orthodox Russians.

This is a proxy war, which is why I think this could lead to World War Three. Russia is taking advantage of the US being so inept over the last two decades in both diplomacy and military activity. The Russian sphere of influence in the Middle-East is growing, the US sphere of influence is shrinking. The military leaders of the US don't like that. This is a proxy war between the US and those countries that openly defy the US sphere of influence. That's why Russia claiming control of the airspace after the US military shot down an Syrian warplane is significant.

Some say this is because the US is the world's policeman, a role that isn't necessarily appreciated by the rest of the world. But here in the US we tolerate wrong-house warrantless no-knock raids that result in fatalities, so if the US is the world's policeman then it appears that the US treats other countries the way it treats its own citizens. And people wonder why countries like Syria invited the Russians in.

Russia is simply going back to it's old ways of propping up any bad guy that will side with them that they can. They quit for a while when their system collapsed but now they're back at it.

Both sides know how to keep it from turning into WWIII. I'm much more worried about things like India/Pakistan, or even China's expansionism.

We are already in WWIII and it is borderless in all continents.

 

[whichphilosophy]

terrorism
ˈtɛrərɪzəm/
noun
noun: terrorism

the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
"the fight against terrorism"

You don't get to make up your own definitions.

Note the "civilian" part--got some evidence we are attacking civilians?

Hint: Plenty of combatants over there don't wear uniforms.

Syria has not threatened the US. The US is committing acts of war against the government of Syria. What business is it of the US whether some of the combatants in Syria aren't wearing uniforms?

There comes a point where we get fed up with the mass murder of civilians. Syria reached that point.

The mass murder of civilians happens when America gets involved.
Iraq is just one example. There had never ever been a suicide bomber in Iraq until America got involved. Not to mention half a million children dead from your sanctions. You really need to fuck off with your "help".
You sit comfortably in Nevada cheering on Americas criminal adventures overseas, blind to the damage you cause

In a few hundred years, Bush and Obama may be seen as infamous warlords causing more havoc then Ghenghis Khan but often through vassal armies.

 

[LordKiran]

When was the last time a proxy war even escalated to full-on war? nevermind a world war for a second.

Which proxy wars like this didn't

none of them to my knowledge.

 

[funinspace]

Some people want to think of this as a proxy Sunni-Shia war. Except it isn't. Syria is 73% Sunni. Iran, it's ally, is Shia. They are on the same side as the Eastern Orthodox Russians.

Except that Assad and his political groupies are Alawite Muslim, which is a sub-sect of Shia. I'm not suggesting this is purely a religious themed fuster cluck, but it certainly is a component. There certainly is also a political aspect between Iran and SA and its little piglets.

 

[funinspace]

You were just a few posts ago excusing US actions by saying not all combatants are in uniform. Now you are saying that since they aren't in uniform then Assad is clearly mass murdering civilians.

Russia is simply going back to it's old ways of propping up any bad guy that will side with them that they can. They quit for a while when their system collapsed but now they're back at it.

Both sides know how to keep it from turning into WWIII. I'm much more worried about things like India/Pakistan, or even China's expansionism.

So it is bad when Russia does it but good when the US does it? That's pretty interesting. And predictable.

Will you attempt to hold a solid standard? Hold the US to the same standard you hold other countries to? Actually you can't, because your solid standard is "do what the US says".

Then there is that little matter of your blind faith in our military leadership.

Its really pretty simple. We (the US) are the good guys. Therefore anyone we fight are "bad" guys. Anyone we openly or clandestinely support are are allies and therefore part of the good guys.

FWIW, Russia has had a port in Tartus, Syria since 1971 (when they were the USSR)...but yah know they are just back at it...now.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Now some people are saying "we are already at World War Three." I think I need to clarify my own point about how we are creeping towards a bigger war.

It will be a bigger war when the major powers in this proxy war confront each other directly. Instead of sending the proxy agents to fight each other, and instead of having proxy agents confront the rival power, it will be WWIII when major power confronts major power. When the US and Russia start shooting directly at each other, instead of the US shooting at Syria and Russia shooting at ISIS.

This is a war that can easily expand. All it would take is a major mis-step by one of the players to get this going.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

When was the last time a proxy war even escalated to full-on war? nevermind a world war for a second.

Which proxy wars like this didn't

Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The mass murder of civilians happens when America gets involved.
Iraq is just one example. There had never ever been a suicide bomber in Iraq until America got involved. Not to mention half a million children dead from your sanctions. You really need to fuck off with your "help".
You sit comfortably in Nevada cheering on Americas criminal adventures overseas, blind to the damage you cause

If you want to see real mass murder of civilians look at what happens when Moscow gets involved.

 

[Philos]

If you want to see real mass murder of civilians look at what happens when Moscow gets involved.

Loren,

As my Gran used to say, "You can't make an omelette without murdering 40 million people."

A.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

The mass murder of civilians happens when America gets involved.
Iraq is just one example. There had never ever been a suicide bomber in Iraq until America got involved. Not to mention half a million children dead from your sanctions. You really need to fuck off with your "help".
You sit comfortably in Nevada cheering on Americas criminal adventures overseas, blind to the damage you cause

If you want to see real mass murder of civilians look at what happens when Moscow gets involved.

Well, according to Loren, if someone else is killing people not in uniform they are killing civilians, but if the US is killing people not in uniform they are irregular combatants and terrorists.

 

[bilby]

If you want to see real mass murder of civilians look at what happens when Moscow gets involved.

Loren,

As my Gran used to say, "You can't make an omelette without murdering 40 million people."

A.

 

[J842P]

Some people want to think of this as a proxy Sunni-Shia war. Except it isn't. Syria is 73% Sunni. Iran, it's ally, is Shia. They are on the same side as the Eastern Orthodox Russians.

Except that Assad and his political groupies are Alawite Muslim, which is a sub-sect of Shia. I'm not suggesting this is purely a religious themed fuster cluck, but it certainly is a component. There certainly is also a political aspect between Iran and SA and its little piglets.

Much less than you might think, though. The Syrian Arab Army is majority Sunni, for example. Fundamentally, Assad represents secular Arab nationalism.

At the beginnings of the war, I'm talking 2014, you might have been able to make the case that this was a Nationalist vs Republican internal Syrian civil war. However, before the year was over, that was pretty much not true. Any secular, democratic elements to the resistance have by now been completely replaced by radical Sunni Islamists funded by the Gulf Arab states and the US. The US has essentially been arming Al Qaeda for a while.

War is Peace. We've always been at war with EastAsia and all that...

The above leaves out the Kurds, who are a genuinely democratic, secular, liberal faction. I doubt the powers that be will be able to deny them a State this time, seeing as they have essentially forged it for themselves from the fires of war. But, it wouldn't surprise me if the US found a way to screw the Kurds yet again.

 

[tupac chopra]

The mass murder of civilians happens when America gets involved.
Iraq is just one example. There had never ever been a suicide bomber in Iraq until America got involved. Not to mention half a million children dead from your sanctions. You really need to fuck off with your "help".
You sit comfortably in Nevada cheering on Americas criminal adventures overseas, blind to the damage you cause

If you want to see real mass murder of civilians look at what happens when Moscow gets involved.

You are looking at things that happened generations ago and comparing it to what America is doing today.

- - - Updated - - -

Which proxy wars like this didn't

Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan.

You guys carpet bombed North Korea and killed up to 20% of the population but it wasn't a full on war?

ok.
No wonder politicians in America can continue to do what they do with people like you cheering them on.

“We Killed Off – What – Twenty Percent of the Population. We Burned Down every Town in North Korea…”
The above quotation is from General Curtis Lemay, who coordinated the bombing campaign (1950-53)