Cremation

[lpetrich]

Burning Out: What Really Happens Inside a Crematorium,  Cremation

Four decades ago, less than 5 percent of Americans were cremated. Now that figure stands at nearly 50 percent. This is how cremation actually works, and the story of what happens to a culture when its attitudes about memorializing the dead undergo a revolution.

People's cremation ashes are usually put in urns, and those urns are in turn usually put in a building called a columbarium, a sort of cremation cemetery.

Cost is one factor.

“Less expensive alternative” may be putting it lightly. Rosehill charges just $180 to cremate a body, although the urn, flowers, and service are extra. A grave, by contrast, can cost $2,500, plus an additional $1,500 to open the ground with a backhoe.

Another factor is cemeteries running out of land. Rosehill itself is expected to run out in 15 years.

Cremation is nowadays done in specially-designed cremation units, but don't call them ovens and don't call the process incineration. The cremation units have a primary heater and an afterburner for the exhaust gases.

What's left is a pile of bone fragments and ashes, and after removing implants that had survived the cremation, this pile is often crushed further to a powder.

For anyone who does not like burning and the exhaust that it makes, there is an alternative:  Alkaline hydrolysis (body disposal). It is heating a body at 160 C / 320 F in a lye solution under enough pressure to keep it from boiling. That solution becomes a green-brown liquid and the bones become soft and easily crushed. That liquid is usually disposed of in the local sewage system.

It was originally invented to dispose of cows that were suffering from Mad Cow Disease.

-

Then there are religious problems. Christian churches have long frowned on cremation, because they want a body to be ready to be resurrected when Jesus Christ does his Second Coming. But as Bertrand Russell has noted in "An Outline of Intellectual Rubbish",

In this connection the orthodox have a curious objection to cremation, which seems to show an insufficient realization of God's omnipotence. It is thought that a body which has been burnt will be more difficult for Him to collect together again than one which has been put underground and transformed into worms. No doubt collecting the particles from the air and undoing the chemical work of combustion would be somewhat laborious, but it is surely blasphemous to suppose such a work impossible for the Deity. I conclude that the objection to cremation implies grave heresy. But I doubt whether my opinion will carry much weight with the orthodox.

But over the last century, many Xian churches have come to accept cremation, even if not to endorse it.

But some other religions are more accepting. Hindus have long accepted cremation as legitimate, and some crematoriums let the deceased's oldest surviving son start the process, in accordance with Hindu tradition.

 

[DolphinDynasty]

Burning Out: What Really Happens Inside a Crematorium,  Cremation

People's cremation ashes are usually put in urns, and those urns are in turn usually put in a building called a columbarium, a sort of cremation cemetery.

Cost is one factor.

Another factor is cemeteries running out of land. Rosehill itself is expected to run out in 15 years.

Cremation is nowadays done in specially-designed cremation units, but don't call them ovens and don't call the process incineration. The cremation units have a primary heater and an afterburner for the exhaust gases.

What's left is a pile of bone fragments and ashes, and after removing implants that had survived the cremation, this pile is often crushed further to a powder.

For anyone who does not like burning and the exhaust that it makes, there is an alternative:  Alkaline hydrolysis (body disposal). It is heating a body at 160 C / 320 F in a lye solution under enough pressure to keep it from boiling. That solution becomes a green-brown liquid and the bones become soft and easily crushed. That liquid is usually disposed of in the local sewage system.

It was originally invented to dispose of cows that were suffering from Mad Cow Disease.

-

Then there are religious problems. Christian churches have long frowned on cremation, because they want a body to be ready to be resurrected when Jesus Christ does his Second Coming. But as Bertrand Russell has noted in "An Outline of Intellectual Rubbish",

In this connection the orthodox have a curious objection to cremation, which seems to show an insufficient realization of God's omnipotence. It is thought that a body which has been burnt will be more difficult for Him to collect together again than one which has been put underground and transformed into worms. No doubt collecting the particles from the air and undoing the chemical work of combustion would be somewhat laborious, but it is surely blasphemous to suppose such a work impossible for the Deity. I conclude that the objection to cremation implies grave heresy. But I doubt whether my opinion will carry much weight with the orthodox.

But over the last century, many Xian churches have come to accept cremation, even if not to endorse it.

But some other religions are more accepting. Hindus have long accepted cremation as legitimate, and some crematoriums let the deceased's oldest surviving son start the process, in accordance with Hindu tradition.

I had my Dad cremated after the funeral I paid for on account of his being a lying stupid fuck that I knew full well was a lying stupid fuck. He claimed to everyone he had a plot prepared and paid for above his late second wife who predeceased him. Because I knew he was so prone to telling people stories and also imbuing them with what they wanted to hear long before he was faced with just being honest, I accounted for hearing from the cemetery that he never actually prepared for or paid for the lot he requested, just that he had requested it. The only other way we had to get him in there I also learned from the cemetery was t get all blood and step-children to sign an agreement, which given that my sister's a drug addicted, money obsessed cunt, my blood brother walked away from the family (quite intelligently) the day he turned 18, and my step-bothers were complete idiots, I got my sister and I to sign for cremation after a week of just telling her it was better than the alternative.

So when she finally got hold of the cemetery about the non-existent plot, which she rather stupidly waited on and tried getting m to drive all the way out to, in order to "discuss" the impossible, I was quite gratified in being finally done with all of them.

I prefer being buried without casket or funeral, in a wooded area with no monument or stone. After scientists have gone through everything they can in research efforts for whatever they want. That way, no matter how many religious freaks claim I was vile for not believing I could help someone potentially in extending their own life even after death, for a time. Then its dump me in a hole and forget about me, which isn't hard to do. People do it all the time and always have. That's why they developed proscripts and rules declaring bodies must be buried without fire and with headstones and memorials, so that they won't forget. Well, that and the idea that if burned somehow the many gods or one god will be displeased despite at least the Christian god being pleased at the smell of burning human flesh.

Other cultures value imbuing themselves with the energy and/or flesh of the dead to "take on their traits or abilities or keep their essence in the world longer" or whatever. Buddhists, for one. Zoroastrians prefer their bodies are dealt with by burning them as that "releases their soul into the ether" or some shit. And there are tribes that still eat their dead to serve the living.

Basically, cremation, funerals, burial, rituals or no rituals, it's all for the living, not the dead. I say, unless somebody left provisions and money behind for it, it goes whatever way is most feasible because even if they left a will denoting what they want it might not be possible. But that's just reasonable, and we all know how much most people fight the use of reason.

I suppose it's of no consequence really, what anyone thinks, unless they're in a seat of power or holding an instrument/tool as such. But it might make people think about what they really want for after they die for their own bodies, at least.

 

[lpetrich]

And there are tribes that still eat their dead to serve the living.

Herodotus in his book The Histories (~425 BCE) has this anecdote (Book III):

Persian king Darius once asked some Greek mercenaries what they would accept for eating their dead fathers. "Not for any money", they told him. He then asked some Indians called Callatians, people who eat their parents, what they would accept for burning their dead fathers. They exclaimed aloud, and they begged him not to mention such a terrible thing. (my version from Herodotus's Histories -- three translations at Wikisource)

 

[Shake]

I'd long thought I'd want to be cremated, for some of the same reasons already given above. Lately though, other options seem to be turning up. One which I've grown particularly fond of is the idea of being turned into a pod from which a tree can grow. Not only does it seem more environmentally friendly, it perpetuates my idea of attempting to achieve immortality (or at least an extension to life).

 

[DolphinDynasty]

I'd long thought I'd want to be cremated, for some of the same reasons already given above. Lately though, other options seem to be turning up. One which I've grown particularly fond of is the idea of being turned into a pod from which a tree can grow. Not only does it seem more environmentally friendly, it perpetuates my idea of attempting to achieve immortality (or at least an extension to life).

There's a southern state in the U.S., nor sure of the company name that has a cemetery built into a national park in such a way you have to look hard as fuck to find the little stones with nametag, if you even pay for a stone with a name tag. Most people buried there went for the anonymous, no plastic tag marker, no stone, just throw the body in the hole, cover it up an plant a bush or flower or tree there to have the body help it grow as it decays.

I also know somebody whose nephew had their ashes mixed with weed and their friends smoked him up. To me, the second thing is creepy cuz maybe it leads to an infection or something, on the added ash since the wee itself is basically okay enough. Then how d you explain to people it wasn't the weed it was the dead person's ashes that did it?

Weird. But then my body's going to research and just sitting waiting for the lack of food and liquids to work is a bother, but at least I know my asshole family can do nothing about it.

My grandpa went for the cremation option too, so he could be spread in 3 different places in the Netherlands. A couple of the more religious weirdos pined and complained cuz they had no marker to go and visit but my grandma literally went "oh well" and that was that.

 

[bilby]

I'd long thought I'd want to be cremated, for some of the same reasons already given above. Lately though, other options seem to be turning up. One which I've grown particularly fond of is the idea of being turned into a pod from which a tree can grow. Not only does it seem more environmentally friendly, it perpetuates my idea of attempting to achieve immortality (or at least an extension to life).

There's a southern state in the U.S., nor sure of the company name that has a cemetery built into a national park in such a way you have to look hard as fuck to find the little stones with nametag, if you even pay for a stone with a name tag. Most people buried there went for the anonymous, no plastic tag marker, no stone, just throw the body in the hole, cover it up an plant a bush or flower or tree there to have the body help it grow as it decays.

I also know somebody whose nephew had their ashes mixed with weed and their friends smoked him up. To me, the second thing is creepy cuz maybe it leads to an infection or something, on the added ash since the wee itself is basically okay enough. Then how d you explain to people it wasn't the weed it was the dead person's ashes that did it?

Weird. But then my body's going to research and just sitting waiting for the lack of food and liquids to work is a bother, but at least I know my asshole family can do nothing about it.

My grandpa went for the cremation option too, so he could be spread in 3 different places in the Netherlands. A couple of the more religious weirdos pined and complained cuz they had no marker to go and visit but my grandma literally went "oh well" and that was that.

I am pretty sure that if boiling stuff is an effective way to eliminate infection, heating it to burning temperatures (twice - once in the crematorium, and then again in the joint or bong) is going to pretty much eliminate any possible pathogens - if the dude had a dangerous virus or bacterium in him that could survive that, humanity was probably doomed whether or not his mates smoked his ashes.

 

[DolphinDynasty]

I'd long thought I'd want to be cremated, for some of the same reasons already given above. Lately though, other options seem to be turning up. One which I've grown particularly fond of is the idea of being turned into a pod from which a tree can grow. Not only does it seem more environmentally friendly, it perpetuates my idea of attempting to achieve immortality (or at least an extension to life).

There's a southern state in the U.S., nor sure of the company name that has a cemetery built into a national park in such a way you have to look hard as fuck to find the little stones with nametag, if you even pay for a stone with a name tag. Most people buried there went for the anonymous, no plastic tag marker, no stone, just throw the body in the hole, cover it up an plant a bush or flower or tree there to have the body help it grow as it decays.

I also know somebody whose nephew had their ashes mixed with weed and their friends smoked him up. To me, the second thing is creepy cuz maybe it leads to an infection or something, on the added ash since the wee itself is basically okay enough. Then how d you explain to people it wasn't the weed it was the dead person's ashes that did it?

Weird. But then my body's going to research and just sitting waiting for the lack of food and liquids to work is a bother, but at least I know my asshole family can do nothing about it.

My grandpa went for the cremation option too, so he could be spread in 3 different places in the Netherlands. A couple of the more religious weirdos pined and complained cuz they had no marker to go and visit but my grandma literally went "oh well" and that was that.

I am pretty sure that if boiling stuff is an effective way to eliminate infection, heating it to burning temperatures (twice - once in the crematorium, and then again in the joint or bong) is going to pretty much eliminate any possible pathogens - if the dude had a dangerous virus or bacterium in him that could survive that, humanity was probably doomed whether or not his mates smoked his ashes.

True on the heating processes of both the cremation and reheating it along with smoke from burning weed.

However, trapping accidentally inhaled burning material can happen inside lungs, which can lead to infection, and if still high, some pretty hilarious slips of "it was my uncle, no really, we smoked him up" etc etc.

Also, it's still weird. Nowhere near as weird as eating the ash of dead people, don't get me wrong there, but still too weird for me.

Smoke up some green, okay cool, adding your dead relative to the mix to pass around in a bowl not so much.

 

[Elixir]

I'm okay with a Sky Burial, but I fear that the neighbors might complain.

 

[LordKiran]

I'm okay with a Sky Burial, but I fear that the neighbors might complain.

Seems a bit undignified. Perhaps a lake version?

 

[Cycad]

I'm okay with a Sky Burial, but I fear that the neighbors might complain.

With little firewood and rockhard soil to dig a hole its a very elegant solution.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I want my remains scattered at Disneyland. Oh, and I don't want to be cremated.

 

[Cycad]

Towers of silence of Zoroastrians have an issue with lack of vultures.

 

[DolphinDynasty]

I want my remains scattered at Disneyland. Oh, and I don't want to be cremated.

lol. Disney is hard to have that happen in, since people have notoriously been trying to spread ash and the bodies dead people there for decades.

Maybe you could manage to get on the pirate of the Caribbean ride, tho. I saw in some article or other some guy's body/skeleton ended up there, and in various film shoots in other areas of Florida and other states too, before they ended up burying him underneath several feet of cement to try and keep anybody thinking of digging him up again and using him as a gag from happening again.