Not so much liberals, but fauxgressives. And unironically, yes. You can't have a civil discussion with them because they'll accuse you of being racist for disagreeing (see pood).
Nobody is saying that Jordan Neely deserved to die. But Penny did not intend him to die - his death was due to the combination of the chokehold, Neely's intoxication with synthetic marijuana and his health issues. He was notably still alive when the paramedics arrived. And even the prosecution had no objection to Penny trying to restrain Neely:
In Penny Verdict, a Flashpoint in the Debate Over Crime and Mental IllnessNY Times said:
I agree. Alvin Bragg and his chipmunks would almost certainly not have prosecuted.
No, it doesn't.
You misspelled "did".
Who was Jordan Neely? What we know about the man killed in NYC subway chokeholdNY Post said:
He is not dead for that. He is dead because of some bad luck. Different things - the restraint (for which he, Neely, is responsible for due to his own actions), Neely being high on synthetic cannabinoids, Neely having sickle cell trait (which can manifest in symptoms under hypoxia or exertion, including sudden death) all combined to him losing his life. He did not deserve to die, of course, but nobody intended him to die either.
Well, you are celebrating someone getting no time for criminally negligent homicide. You really can't have it both ways.
Neither Derec nor I is doing that.
It is a fact that Mr. Neely was not attacking anyone. No one is entirely responsible for the choices other people make. And it is delusional that only Mr Neely could have prevented the whole mess because the entire mess would have been prevented if Mr Penny did not put him in a chokehold or if other passengers helped restrain Mr. Neely or if Mr Penny had loosened the chokehold when the train stopped or any other possibilities. Hence, your characterization of the situation is warped.
The only person I see trying to have it both ways here is you.
And yet you did. Derec is celebrating someone getting no time for not committing criminally negligent homicide.
Actually, your analogy fits better in justifying the killing of a drunk person who was about to get in his car... via a chokehold.
As noted, I rode many subways while in NYC. The mentally ill are not uncommon on the subway. No one needed to be restrained or killed in the process of being restrained any of the times I rode the subway. While with my daughter in Chicago, a guy yelled a few things which definitely got my attention, a bit more muttering, and then nothing else happened. In "the City", you always need to be on guard. Criminals, the mentally ill, religious nuts, NY Jets fans. Never needed to lift a finger though, as nothing ever happened. link
Neely didn't attack anyone. The defendant presumed the man would attack. I'm not going to rush and call this guy a "hero" for preventing an attack that might very well never have occurred.article said:
Derec is celebrating someone getting no time for killing a person who wasn't an imminent threat to anyone by negligently using a chokehold.
It sounds like a politically correct lie.
I have no idea what you are talking about. Show your work.
No, I did not. Show your work.
BS. He might not have punched someone (yet) like he did on several prior occasions, but he did throw trash at passengers while making threats.
Note that not even the prosecution found fault with the initial restraint. So Alvin Bragg's office acknowledged that Neely presented sufficient threat to justify that level of force.
Neely was resisting, so I do not think the he was in active chokehold for six consecutive minutes.
He did. He was juxtaposing your comment above with your assumption (in the comment directed at me) that Penny was guilty of criminally negligent homicide.
I am not celebrating. But I do think Penny should not have been charged. Neely did pose a threat, and even the Manhattan DA's office conceded that the restraint was justified.
Well, yeah. If you word it inaccurately, it will sound different.
Whether it was criminally negligent homicide was a matter for the court. It found Penny not guilty on that charge. What's your point?
JH made the same point but better worded.
I'm not certain where anything in "killing a person who wasn't an imminent threat to anyone by negligently using a chokehold" is either "politically correct" or a "lie".
