Dating the Flood back 650 years

[Derec]

Humans don't live to 130, much less father children at that age.

And that's still true today, with life expectancy FAR higher than at any other time in history.

Literally everything about this story is so stupid that it cannot possibly have actually happened.

Antediluvian medicine. Noah wasn't an MD either, so that too was forgotten.

This is why all these refutations of Teh Flood fall on deaf ears. You can always make up some BS, like superior structural properties of gopher wood.

 

[Derec]

The long lifespans described in Genesis are an error, a fiction, an exaggeration, or most likely a combination of these three.

Meh, the Genesis patriarchs lived short lives compared to Sumerian kings.

After the kingship descended from heaven, the kingship was in Eridug. In Eridug, Alulim became king; he ruled for 28800 years. Alaljar ruled for 36000 years. 2 kings; they ruled for 64800 years.

Maybe the Genesis authors just wanted to make their tale sound more realistic by comparison.

 

[steve_bank]

When I read the genealogy it seemed obvious that the writer was constructing the lineage's and time spans from an oral history.

 

[DBT]

You can't beat Ghopher Wood for ship building.....

 

[steve_bank]

The Myth Busters show was asked to build an Ark and declined saying it was obviously structural impossible in the materials of the day.

 

[James Brown]

To accept the flood at face value requires embracing Bad Science, Bad Engineering, or Magic.

Or some combination thereof.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

....Lots of sympathy for your treatments, but still, it looks to me like you endorse the video because of the conclusion, not the evidence. That kinda shit gets Hovind lauded, and he's a fraud.

The computer graphics recreations and specific details of tsunamis and catastrophic plate tectonics made it look like the guy knows what he is talking about. I guess he is just mentioning the things that support the Flood model and ignoring any problems.

That's the real problem with these Bozos, that they literally use science to disprove science. Why do you think they do that? What do you think makes that behavior so compelling and attractive to them?

Where does the bible mention tsunamis and plate tectonics? Absolutely nowhere, yet they accept these scientific discoveries to do what?

I think their brains are a bit short-wired to prefer emotion over intellect. They're going to believe whatever makes them feel good.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

To accept the flood at face value requires embracing Bad Science, Bad Engineering, or Magic.

Or some combination thereof.

Simply, the ignorance of a child or the willful ignorance of an adult of pretty much all science and history.

 

[Sarpedon]

They aren't using science, they are using computer graphics. It's just a picture you make using a computer.

 

[Learner]

Well, getting beyond the reality that the earth never noticed a global earth surface covering flood of water in the last 800,000 or so years; or shall we bend the spoon? Nothing, absolutely nothing, supports the notion outside of fairy tales.

Ok, that said...notions of 're-introduced writing systems' is purely and un-evidenced speculation. Secondly, what makes you think Shandi was about monotheism? Of course many think the roots of Yahweh weren't monotheistic either, so then they would have something in common. You might as well ask 'What if Loki is the real God, and he gets his socks off by playing differing gods to differing people over the ages and watching the cacophony?'. That would fit the evidence better than the God-breathed world of the Bible. Nothing suggests the Hebrew theistic roots have any ties to the Chinese.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shangdi

The earliest references to Shangdi are found in oracle bone inscriptions of the Shang Dynasty in the 2nd millennium BC, although the later work Classic of History claims yearly sacrifices were made to him by Emperor Shun, even before the Xia Dynasty.

Shangdi was regarded as the ultimate spiritual power by the ruling elite of the Huaxia during the Shang dynasty: he was believed to control victory in battle, success or failure of harvests, weather conditions such as the floods of the Yellow River, and the fate of the kingdom. Shangdi seems to have ruled a hierarchy of other gods controlling nature, as well as the spirits of the deceased.

G'day Funinheaven,

Hierachy of gods ,Shang Di still refers to one "ultimate" creator , An "Almighty". Not forgetting, gods (some were angels) plural, is also in the bible, that also states there IS only one "Almighty". An interesting discussion for another time maybe (should there be interest) since the topic of the thread is the Flood.

Hmm Loki does seem to have Satan's attributes as it is with similar ancient stories,... not suggesting anything here lol.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well, getting beyond the reality that the earth never noticed a global earth surface covering flood of water in the last 800,000 or so years; or shall we bend the spoon? Nothing, absolutely nothing, supports the notion outside of fairy tales.

Ok, that said...notions of 're-introduced writing systems' is purely and un-evidenced speculation. Secondly, what makes you think Shandi was about monotheism? Of course many think the roots of Yahweh weren't monotheistic either, so then they would have something in common. You might as well ask 'What if Loki is the real God, and he gets his socks off by playing differing gods to differing people over the ages and watching the cacophony?'. That would fit the evidence better than the God-breathed world of the Bible. Nothing suggests the Hebrew theistic roots have any ties to the Chinese.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shangdi

The earliest references to Shangdi are found in oracle bone inscriptions of the Shang Dynasty in the 2nd millennium BC, although the later work Classic of History claims yearly sacrifices were made to him by Emperor Shun, even before the Xia Dynasty.

Shangdi was regarded as the ultimate spiritual power by the ruling elite of the Huaxia during the Shang dynasty: he was believed to control victory in battle, success or failure of harvests, weather conditions such as the floods of the Yellow River, and the fate of the kingdom. Shangdi seems to have ruled a hierarchy of other gods controlling nature, as well as the spirits of the deceased.

G'day Funinheaven,

Hierachy of gods ,Shang Di still refers to one "ultimate" creator , An "Almighty". Not forgetting, gods (some were angels) plural, is also in the bible, that also states there IS only one "Almighty".

One almighty, quite a few names though.

Hmm Loki does seem to have Satan's attributes as it is with similar ancient stories,... not suggesting anything here.

OMG, who'd ever independently come up with the bad guy archetype?!

 

[Learner]

One almighty, quite a few names though.

Indeed Mr. Higgins, obviously, more so with various different nations with various languages and dialects.

OMG, who'd ever independently come up with the bad guy archetype?!

Good question.

 

[DBT]

There are verses to suggest that the god of the bible was originally believed to be the son of El, given dominion over the tribe of Israel by his Sire....

 

[Learner]

Then,... DBT old chum of the downunder. Dioes that mean it all starts with EL?


WHO would be the Almighty El?

 

[DBT]

It began at the time that the tribe of Israel borrowed beliefs from surrounding cultures as a means of building a social structure of their own, creation myths, flood stories, the nature of God, etc, etc.

 

[Learner]

After pondering ( over a cup of coffee and clearing my mind), I see that you ...imo ...conflict with your set & fixed mind i.e. meaning, ... many "unexplained " events IS under the scientific, unnown phenomenon.

 

[skepticalbip]

After pondering ( over a cup of coffee and clearing my mind), I see that you imo are not open to the idea of unconventional [/I pausibilitie that have equal explanation values , even though MAY conflict with your set & fixed mind i.e. meaning, ... many "unexplained " events IS a scientific, unnown a phenomenon.

I think you are misreading DBT. I don't see his mind as "set and fixed" but, on the contrary, is exploring evidence for possible and plausible explanations. A search for these possible and plausible explanations begins with some evidence to explain. An "open mind" that invents scenarios with no evidence as a basis is only constructing fantasies. Now there is nothing wrong with fantasizing... It can even be quite enjoyable. But one should be wise enough to distinguish between their fantasizing and their open attempts to make sense of possible and plausible explanations of evidence. If taken too seriously, accepting an invented fantasy as a reality can have undesired consequences.

Yes, I enjoyed the fantasy of the Star Trek series... but I was never tempted to accept it as reality.

 

[DBT]

After pondering ( over a cup of coffee and clearing my mind), I see that you ...imo ...conflict with your set & fixed mind i.e. meaning, ... many "unexplained " events IS under the scientific, unnown phenomenon.

Nope....the trick is to recognize that unexplained events are by definition 'unexplained' and not try to induce an explanation where no explanation currently exists.

Especially not to interpret unexplained events in terms of your own beliefs.....like Christians seeing signs and wonders through the filter of Christian theology, Hindus through their own faith, this is the work of Shiva, that is attributed to Ganesh....Muslims and their Allah and so on.

That is the work of fixed minds. Seeing the world through the filter of faith.

 

[DBT]

Then,... DBT old chum of the downunder. Dioes that mean it all starts with EL?


WHO would be the Almighty El?

''When the Most High ['elyon] apportioned the nations, when he divided humankind, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God/gods [bene 'elohim]; YHWH's portion was/is his people, Jacob his allotted share.'' Deut. 32.8-9 (NRSV)

''For who in the skies compares to Yahweh, who can be likened to Yahweh among the sons of gods (bênê Elîm).'' Psalm 89:6

 

[Learner]

I think you are misreading DBT. I don't see his mind as "set and fixed" but, on the contrary, is exploring evidence for possible and plausible explanations. A search for these possible and plausible explanations begins with some evidence to explain. An "open mind" that invents scenarios with no evidence as a basis is only constructing fantasies. Now there is nothing wrong with fantasizing... It can even be quite enjoyable. But one should be wise enough to distinguish between their fantasizing and their open attempts to make sense of possible and plausible explanations of evidence. If taken too seriously, accepting an invented fantasy as a reality can have undesired consequences.

Yes, I enjoyed the fantasy of the Star Trek series... but I was never tempted to accept it as reality.

I wasn't talking of "invented" fantasy ( if such "evidence" for invented could be shown regarding the bible). Besides I used to be a trekkie too.