Debt Ceiling Calamity VI - This Time It's Personal (Thanks Georgia, Biden's not agenda)

[Jimmy Higgins]

I've read many articles that the democrats can raise the debt limit on their own using the budget reconciliation process, which is immune to a filibuster. They have so far refused to do so. If true, then it is actually the dems playing political games and gambling the economy.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate...iden-its-time-for-democrats-to-raise-debt?amp

1) Should the Democrats be required to use reconciliation to pass a ceiling hike? Shouldn't the GOP be just approving... well, getting rid of it in the first place?
2) Has reconciliation ever been used to pass a debt ceiling hike before?

*web search*

Apparently the debt ceiling has been raised four times before using reconciliation.

 

[Axulus]

I don't know about 'required', but they should do it and then use the repub 'no' votes in their message about how the repubs voted no to paying America's bills, voting for a default, stock market collapse, and deep recession. The fact that they aren't yet doing that shows they are playing political games just as much as the republicians, because they perceive a debt limit increase yes vote as bad politically.

 

[lpetrich]

I've read many articles that the democrats can raise the debt limit on their own using the budget reconciliation process, which is immune to a filibuster. They have so far refused to do so. If true, then it is actually the dems playing political games and gambling the economy.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate...iden-its-time-for-democrats-to-raise-debt?amp

And the Republicans aren't playing political games with the debt limit, right?

Actually, what's happening is different factions of the Democrats are at loggerheads with each other as to what will be going in the reconciliation bill. It's not Mitch McConnell obstructionism.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't know about 'required', but they should do it and then use the repub 'no' votes in their message about how the repubs voted no to paying America's bills, voting for a default, stock market collapse, and deep recession. The fact that they aren't yet doing that shows they are playing political games just as much as the republicians, because they perceive a debt limit increase yes vote as bad politically.

The Democrats put forth a continuing resolution bill that included the hike in the debt ceiling which was required for the continuing resolution bill not be nonsensical. And the Republicans voted it down. The GOP fully supports the spending and the borrowing, but have clearly decided to make the Dems take a political hit that they'll use against them in 2022.

 

[Gun Nut]

I don't know about 'required', but they should do it and then use the repub 'no' votes in their message about how the repubs voted no to paying America's bills, voting for a default, stock market collapse, and deep recession. The fact that they aren't yet doing that shows they are playing political games just as much as the republicians, because they perceive a debt limit increase yes vote as bad politically.

hmmm... implement logic and reason requiring a deep understanding of civics and procedure, the ingestion of complex legal documents, and navigation of very long sentences with compounded gramatical complexities and post-fifth-grade vocabulary? Your a fucking genius! That'll learn them ignuts but gud!

You should work for the DNC... Their marketing could use a fresh injection of incomprehensibility to the target audience.

 

[Swammerdami]

So Mitt Romney, sometimes viewed as the one QOP Senator who hasn't embraced QAnon lies, has shown his true colors by voting against an emergency measure to raise the debt ceiling. What does financial Armageddon matter if the alternative is to thumb one's nose at constituents certain that George Soros is poisoning their drinking water with space lasers?

And Moscow Mitch, proud that he has achieved so much for his Kremlin masters, has graciously agreed to wait six whole weeks before again bringing the U.S. to the brink of catastrophe.

Uh.... Victory for mankind, I guess?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What I don't get is how the GOP figures to win out in this. They can't exactly get the Dems to promise not to spend more money. The GOP has effectively put themselves into a situation where they either have to swerve or appear to swerve, or let the nation default.

And as I suggested, McConnell swerves to a two month can kicking resolution, as the US can't default. That way he can say in two months, the Democrats spent trillions we didn't have, we aren't voting for this resolution again... until the last second.

 

[ZiprHead]

I saw this and thought it explained it pretty well.

Husband: Wife, I order you to buy 500 dollars worth of groceries. Here's 300 dollars to do it. The grocery store will put the rest on a tab.

Wife: Ok. But we are going to have to pay the grocery store at the end of the month.

**End of month comes**
Wife: Alright, I have to pay the grocery store. I need $200.

Husband: What? We don't have $200.

Wife: Ok, then we'll just have to put it on a credit card then. But our credit card limit is only $100. Can you raise it to $200 so we can pay the grocery store? If we don't give them their money, they will stop selling us food.

Husband: WHAT?! How can you be so lax with your spending?! WE CAN'T AFFORD THAT DEBT! YOU need to be frugal. Good thing I'm around to control your spending.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Jimmy Higgins Proudly Presents...

The List of US Spending That Didn't Happen Because of a Debt Ceiling

*tumbleweeds*

 

[lpetrich]

Jake Sherman on Twitter: "Pelosi mentions the idea that Treasury should be able to lift the debt ceiling, and Congress can overrule it. Pelosi says this idea “has merit"

“That seems to have some appeal to both sides of the aisle because of the consequences to people for not lifting it,” Pelosi said." / Twitter
then
Senator Jeff Merkley on Twitter: ".@SpeakerPelosi, this would move us in right direction. Politicians shouldn’t be able to use the debt ceiling as a weapon—it’s reckless. There’s too much at stake, and to play this kind of political game is to flirt with disaster." / Twitter

Senator Jeff Merkley on Twitter: "Last month, @timkaine and I introduced a bill to de-weaponize the debt ceiling by allowing the executive branch to raise the debt ceiling, subject to a congressional override. (link)" / Twitter

Press Release | Press Releases | News | U.S. Senator Jeff Merkley of Oregon - yes, one of my state's two Senators

S.2819 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): Protect Our CREDIT Act of 2021 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

Shown Here:
Introduced in Senate (09/23/2021)

Protect Our Citizens from Reckless Extortion of our Debt and Irresponsible Tactics Act of 2021 or the Protect Our CREDIT Act of 2021

This bill allows the President to increase the statutory debt limit unless a joint resolution of disapproval is passed by Congress and becomes law.

Prior to the beginning of each fiscal year, the President must submit to Congress a certification that specifies the existing debt, the debt limit, and the debt that will be necessary to issue during the next year to meet existing commitments. The debt limit is increased by the proposed amount, unless a joint resolution of disapproval is passed by Congress within 15 days and becomes law. Congress must consider the joint resolution using specified expedited legislative procedures.

The President must submit an additional certification to Congress during the year if the debt is within $250 billion of the limit, and further borrowing is necessary to meet existing commitments. The certification must propose a new debt limit for the remainder of the year and explain any discrepancy with the earlier certification. The new debt limit also goes into effect, unless a joint resolution of disapproval is passed by Congress within 15 days and becomes law.

The bill suspends the debt limit during the period in which Congress is considering a joint resolution of disapproval after the President has submitted a mid-year certification.

Complete with a cutesy acronym.

I'd like to be rid of this stupid political theater about the debt limit.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The debt ceiling needs to be ended. The active debt ceiling has never impeded any spending or tax cut. Its purpose doesn't exist.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The debt ceiling needs to be ended. The active debt ceiling has never impeded any spending or tax cut. Its purpose doesn't exist.

It does have a use--as a soapbox.

 

[lpetrich]

In shift, McConnell begins talks with Schumer to stave off debt crisis - CNNPolitics

Emerging from the Thursday meeting, McConnell called it a "good discussion" and the two agreed to "keep talking" about the massive year-end agenda the Senate is struggling to finish, including raising the debt ceiling and avoiding a government shutdown by December 3. Senators briefed on the matter say Republicans are open to a deal that would allow Democrats to easily raise the debt ceiling without GOP support, so long as Republicans don't drag out the process.

What might the Democrats do?

Democrats could either use a process known as budget reconciliation, which cannot be filibustered but would open them up to scores of GOP amendments in the Senate and would eat up days of precious floor time.

Or they could change the filibuster rules and allow the debt ceiling to be raised by a simple majority of 51 votes, rather than 60 to break a stalling tactic -- something McConnell has been fearful his adversaries may actually do with their backs up against the wall.

Though Joe Manchin says he doesn't want to.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Okay, seriously, enough with this bullshit that the GOP is scared of Schumer ending the filibuster. Without that, the first thing gone with a new GOP Senate/House is the death of the ACA. The GOP is daring the Dems to get rid of the filibuster.

 

[ZiprHead]

Fourteenth Amendment, Section 4:

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Could we say the debt ceiling is unconstitutional?

 

[lpetrich]

Conservative Senate Republicans reportedly plan to force a government shutdown over vaccine rules

Funding for much of the federal government runs out at midnight on Friday — and conservative Senate Republicans, backed by their counterparts in the House, are "privately plotting to force a government shutdown" as part of "an effort to defund the Biden administration's vaccine mandate on the private sector," Politico's Playbook reports, citing multiple GOP sources. Democrats are scrambling to get agreement from enough Republicans to fund the government at roughly current levels through early 2022.

"Because of the tight schedule — and Senate rules that require unanimous consent to move quickly — the senators believe they'll be able to drag out the process well past midnight Friday," Politico reports. If they succeed, "the government will likely shut down for several days — even if appropriators strike a bipartisan agreement to extend funding by the end of today."

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Alright! Deal appears to have been agreed to.

House and Senate leaders on Thursday announced they had reached a deal on a bill to fund the government into mid-February, opening the door for lawmakers to narrowly avoid a shutdown this weekend.

The agreement on a new stopgap spending measure paves the way for the House to vote before the end of the day, though swift action still seemed uncertain in the Senate, where some Republicans have threatened to grind the government to a halt as they protest President Biden’s vaccine and testing mandates.

STOPGAP?!! FUCK!!!

Wait... this is about funding the government and not dealing with the debt ceiling?!?!?!?!

DOUBLE FUCK!!!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well, looks like we can't even fund the Government now because vaccination is immoral now.

While lawmakers are confident that they can ultimately prevent a prolonged shutdown, a brief shutdown over the weekend, or extending into next week, remains a possibility.

Republican Sen. Mike Lee of Utah was the latest member of the GOP conference to say Thursday afternoon that he'll object to quick passage of the resolution.

"The only thing I want to shut down is enforcement of an immoral, unconstitutional vaccine mandate," Lee said in Senate floor remarks.

Republican Sen. Roger Marshall of Kansas also stood by his opposition, saying he would object to an effort to quickly pass a stopgap bill to keep the government open unless he gets an amendment vote to defund the Biden vaccine mandate on businesses at a 51-vote threshold.

"Shutting down the government is worth saving the jobs in Kansas," he said.

I remember celebrating my daughter's birthday outdoors at a park in early November 2020, brilliant unseasonal (well is used to be unseasonal) 65 or so and sunny. Talking amongst my family, a couple engineers, a pediatrician, PhD in biology. Thinking hopefully we'd be back to normal-ish come next Thanksgiving. They had got the vaccine, it appeared to work, we seemed to be on that path and now the GOP is so rabidly partisan, vaccination is considered wrong. You know, freedom and all.

We sent 300,000 Americans to war in the 40s that died in combat. And these idiots won't even consider getting a shot because of "freedom", all the while being largely responsible for the continuation of the pandemic in the US.

 

[lpetrich]

• Government shutdown averted as Biden signs short-term funding bill - CBS News
• Biden signs short-term funding bill, averting government shutdown through February - ABC News
• Government shutdown: Joe Biden signs funding bill
• Biden signs bill to avoid a government shutdown but a long to-do list remains : NPR

From NPR,

Lawmakers are juggling must-pass items, like addressing the nation's borrowing authority and an annual defense authorization package, along with major political priorities for Democrats.

Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., pledged to vote before Christmas on Biden's roughly $2 trillion Build Back Better legislation.

"I've said many times before that nobody should expect legislation of this magnitude to be easy," Schumer said this week on the Senate floor. "We've been at the task for several months, but we need to take a step back and recognize that we are hopefully less than a month away from acting on the largest investment in the American people we've seen in generations."

That legislation, which includes major investments in the social safety net and programs to address climate change, passed the House last month. Senate Democrats are now waiting for an assessment from the nonpartisan Senate parliamentarian before they can finalize their version of the bill.

About the bill, from CNBC:

• The measure will keep the government running through Feb. 18.
• The legislation buys Democrats time as they try to raise or suspend the U.S. debt ceiling before Dec. 15 and pass their $1.75 trillion Build Back Better Act by the end of the year.

 

[lpetrich]

Here's that bill: H.R.6119 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): Making further continuing appropriations for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2022, and for other purposes. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

US House: Roll Call 399 | Bill Number: H. R. 6119
The vote was 221 - 212. Every Democrat voted for it and all but one Republican voted against it. The only exception was Adam Kinzinger, R-IL.

U.S. Senate: U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 117th Congress - 1st Session
The vote was 69 - 28 with 3 not voting. Every Democrat and Independent voted for it while among the Republicans, 19 voted for it, 28 voted against it, and 3 did not vote.

The Republican supporters: Blunt (R-MO), Burr (R-NC), Capito (R-WV), Cassidy (R-LA), Collins (R-ME), Cornyn (R-TX), Graham (R-SC), Hyde-Smith (R-MS), Kennedy (R-LA), McConnell (R-KY), Moran (R-KS), Murkowski (R-AK), Portman (R-OH), Rounds (R-SD), Rubio (R-FL), Shelby (R-AL), Tillis (R-NC), Wicker (R-MS), Young (R-IN)

The non-voters: Hagerty (R-TN), Inhofe (R-OK), Thune (R-SD)