Deception = Rape?

[repoman]

So I was talking to a friend who got married only after a short time of knowing the guy. He has a massive (truly staggering) amount of physical and mental health and drug abuse problems that he actively concealed and lied about.

Now she is so messed up that it is much, much worse than if he lied to her about random bullshit to have a one night stand or short fling. Pretty sad.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Of course you wouldn't think a female victim is victimized.

and yes, that scene was meant to be and actually is humorous.

Whether or not someone intended her victimization to be funny, your lack of victim empathy allows you to laugh.

Of all possible things to get on Derec about concerning women and sex, this is about as milquetoast as it gets. The joke is imagining the woman only having sex with this guy because she thinks he is Kevin Costner - literally a starfucker and there are some men starfuckers out there as well. She is a victim of karma for being a starfucker. That shit is funny.

You are gonna dilute much more deserved outrage with this attitude. Just wait about 10 more posts and Derec will say something that is truly whacked out about this topic.

If someone else like Bronzeage or Jimmy Higgins posted this it would not get the same response.

You know, you all should never watch Breaking Bad again if this is your attitude.

I am gonna guess that at least one of you who is breaking Derec's balls laughed to this when they saw it for the first time.

I am not outraged but merely pointing out Derec's insensitivity to victims. She was probably also drunk at the time. Otherwise, she wouldnt have fallenfor the manipulation.

 

[Arctish]

Of all possible things to get on Derec about concerning women and sex, this is about as milquetoast as it gets. The joke is imagining the woman only having sex with this guy because she thinks he is Kevin Costner - literally a starfucker and there are some men starfuckers out there as well. She is a victim of karma for being a starfucker. That shit is funny.

No, the joke is that the guy is a total weaselshit claiming he didn't lie because what he said was true in her eyes the night before, even though it obviously wasn't true at any time at all, and he's all smuggo about it.

Someone might get an extra chuckle at the thought of a woman getting fucked over as well as fucked, but that's just a bonus round for misogynists. A person can actually respect people and still think the weaselshit's "Power of Positive Thinking Makes It Not Lying" is funny.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Can we please not hijack this thread with yet another attack on Derec?

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Well, that would be somebody having sex with you when you didn't consent to having sex with that person. Different from simply deceiving them.

This exact thing did happen to me when I was 17. The identical twin of the guy I was dating came into my apartment and crawled into my bed for sex. At the time, I even thought something was *off* but put it down to me being woken from a sound sleep.

The next morning, all hell broke loose with the twin's girlfriend AND the guy I was dating blaming me as much as they blamed the twin... after all, I'd *willingly* slept with him.

No.

I was raped by deception.

That being the case, I am interested in what you think of the other cases, and what you think of the laws and court cases I posted above.

 

[dismal]

Well, that would be somebody having sex with you when you didn't consent to having sex with that person. Different from simply deceiving them.

This exact thing did happen to me when I was 17. The identical twin of the guy I was dating came into my apartment and crawled into my bed for sex. At the time, I even thought something was *off* but put it down to me being woken from a sound sleep.

The next morning, all hell broke loose with the twin's girlfriend AND the guy I was dating blaming me as much as they blamed the twin... after all, I'd *willingly* slept with him.

No.

I was raped by deception.

Yeah, that's rape. Still, if some girl picks me up in a bar saying she's a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader she isn't it doesn't feel like rape. I am consensually nailing her, and if the only reason is I think she's a cheerleader I more an idiot than a victim.

 

[Derec]

I am not outraged but merely pointing out Derec's insensitivity to victims.

I do not think she is a victim here. Other than of her own gullibility and fixation with celebrity maybe.
And it's not gender specific. If you think you have fucked Jessica Alba and you wake up next to some random four that was still hanging at the bar at closing time, that's on you and your beer goggles. You certainly weren't raped and neither was this chick.

She was probably also drunk at the time. Otherwise, she wouldnt have fallenfor the manipulation.

And we know that in the eyes of feminazi SJWs a woman is raped if she had any alcohol at all, even if the man she had sex with is drunker than she is. See Amherst travesty, where a male student was expelled because "she was not able to consent" due to alcohol consumption, but he was deemed able to consent even though he was drunker than she was.

 

[Derec]

Of course you wouldn't think a female victim is victimized.

I think a supposed victim (female or not) is victimized iff he/she is actually victimized. This woman was not.

Whether or not someone intended her victimization to be funny, your lack of victim empathy allows you to laugh.

I do not think she was victimized. And I wouldn't think a guy in similar circumstances was victimized either. There is a comedy trope where a guy wakes up next to an uggo that he would never have had sex with sober. Such situations are inherently funny, in a mild Schadenfreude sort of way (think slapstick humor where somebody falls down or gets punched but suffers no real harm only less so because only their pride is hurt), but these people are only victims of their own vanity.

 

[repoman]

More so in the past than now, but if a closeted, actively gay man gets married to a woman for the purpose of having kids and a family and not for the sex or romantic love, is this a form of rape? Or is it heroic?

 

[Arctish]

I do not think she is a victim here. Other than of her own gullibility and fixation with celebrity maybe.
And it's not gender specific. If you think you have fucked Jessica Alba and you wake up next to some random four that was still hanging at the bar at closing time, that's on you and your beer goggles. You certainly weren't raped and neither was this chick.

She was probably also drunk at the time. Otherwise, she wouldnt have fallenfor the manipulation.

And we know that in the eyes of feminazi SJWs a woman is raped if she had any alcohol at all, even if the man she had sex with is drunker than she is. See Amherst travesty, where a male student was expelled because "she was not able to consent" due to alcohol consumption, but he was deemed able to consent even though he was drunker than she was.

Oh ffs, will you please stop relying on MRA blog sources for information on the Amherst case and read the reports from credible sources? The male student was expelled for forcing a female student to continue fellating him when she tried to stop. The moment he used force was the moment his transgression went from drunk sex to rape, from a moderate violation of the CoC that would have gotten him something between a slap on the wrist and probation, to an egregious violation that got him expelled.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

More so in the past than now, but if a closeted, actively gay man gets married to a woman for the purpose of having kids and a family and not for the sex or romantic love, is this a form of rape? Or is it heroic?

If the woman doesn't know it, it is a pretty scumbag thing to do, but I'm not sure I'd call it rape. But how about a transexual person who doesn't tell you she used to be a he? If you found out later, would you feel violated and would you consider that rape?

 

[repoman]

More so in the past than now, but if a closeted, actively gay man gets married to a woman for the purpose of having kids and a family and not for the sex or romantic love, is this a form of rape? Or is it heroic?

If the woman doesn't know it, it is a pretty scumbag thing to do, but I'm not sure I'd call it rape. But how about a transexual person who doesn't tell you she used to be a he? If you found out later, would you feel violated and would you consider that rape?

Gay adoption, surrogacy and fertility banks should lead to less instances of gays marrying the opposite gender to have a family with children. That is a good thing.

 

[RVonse]

Personally, I would call most of these situations fraud and not rape. If there is no physical violence, it doesn't seem like rape to me at all.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Personally, I would call most of these situations fraud and not rape. If there is no physical violence, it doesn't seem like rape to me at all.

Rape doesn't require physical violence.

 

[laughing dog]

It is rape when person A has sex with Person B without B's consent to have sex with Person A. The means by which the rape is achieved does not alter the fact of the rape. The means is relevant as to the possible consequences for the rape.

 

[Malintent]

I don't know of any state where a charge of rape is allowed without some form of physical threat existing at the time of the rape. The necessary condition is that the victim must fear some kind of harm, and submits.

Yes, that is the traditional view of rape, and one that I share. The contemporary view of rape ignores this, it seems.. .at least to those that inspire this thread and other threads much like it.

There are countless instances of conversations about rape cases that do not involve physical threat at all... I would wager MOST cases are such. Statistically, a rape victim knows their assailant personally... and physical threats are not involved.

"date rape" is an entire category of assault that tends not to involve physical threats... the threat is psychological.

 

[Malintent]

This exact thing did happen to me when I was 17. The identical twin of the guy I was dating came into my apartment and crawled into my bed for sex. At the time, I even thought something was *off* but put it down to me being woken from a sound sleep.

The next morning, all hell broke loose with the twin's girlfriend AND the guy I was dating blaming me as much as they blamed the twin... after all, I'd *willingly* slept with him.

No.

I was raped by deception.

Yeah, that's rape. Still, if some girl picks me up in a bar saying she's a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader she isn't it doesn't feel like rape. I am consensually nailing her, and if the only reason is I think she's a cheerleader I more an idiot than a victim.

Holy double-standard batman!

How, in any way, is lying about being a cheerleader different than lying about being an actor?????????????????? besides that woman = victim and man = idiot, according to you.

 

[Malintent]

Personally, I would call most of these situations fraud and not rape. If there is no physical violence, it doesn't seem like rape to me at all.

Rape doesn't require physical violence.

rape requires coercion of some sort. What type of coercion, besides physical, counts? "If you don't have sex with me, I won't take you out for dinner again". That's (attempted) rape?

 

[dismal]

Yeah, that's rape. Still, if some girl picks me up in a bar saying she's a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader she isn't it doesn't feel like rape. I am consensually nailing her, and if the only reason is I think she's a cheerleader I more an idiot than a victim.

Holy double-standard batman!

How, in any way, is lying about being a cheerleader different than lying about being an actor?????????????????? besides that woman = victim and man = idiot, according to you.

Huh?

You must be reading words that aren't there.

 

[Derec]

Holy double-standard batman!

How, in any way, is lying about being a cheerleader different than lying about being an actor?????????????????? besides that woman = victim and man = idiot, according to you.

Huh?

You must be reading words that aren't there.

He probably hought "that's rape" applied to the OP and not RavenSky's story.

 

[Malintent]

Huh?

You must be reading words that aren't there.

He probably hought "that's rape" applied to the OP and not RavenSky's story.

doesn't it apply? If Jimmy and Johnny Smith look very much alike (twins, in this case), and one claims to be a person they are not (and fools you), that is said to be rape here.
If "famous actor" and "random asshole" look very much alike, and one claims to be a person they are not (and fools you), that is said to be rape here.
If a "cheerleader" and "gold digging whore" look alike, and one claims to be a person they are not (and fools you), that somehow is not rape. That is the double standard.