Deception = Rape?

[Arctish]

Regarding the question posed in the OP, does Deception = Rape?, there's this:

'Stealthing' --the practice of removing condoms during sex -- is on the rise

To what degree does the change from condom protected sexual intercourse to unprotected sex without one of the participant's knowledge affect their consent? I think it invalidates consent entirely.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I think a supposed victim (female or not) is victimized iff he/she is actually victimized. This woman was not.

She is definitely a victim of his lying. Now, whether or not that makes her a rape victim is a different question. BUT your laughing is callous since she did it while being a victim of a lie; it makes her a victim of something bigger.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

In mating, we deceive each other all the time, from very simple deception few would object to, such as make up and hair dye, to extreme cases such as lies about wealth and status, impersonating somebody else (ie, a celebrity look alike), and post-op transexuals not telling their new sex partners.

Do you believe that deception can amount to rape, if the sex partner consented to the sex, but on false pretenses?

If so, in what cases do you say it does, and in what cases not, and do you have uniform logic and reason as to what makes the difference?

And if not rape, is it wrong? In what cases and why or why not?

If a brunette dies her hair blonde is that considerably less bad than if a man dies out his grey hair to look younger? Remember that guy in China who sued his wife for them having ugly children because he didn't know she'd had plastic surgery? Did he have a point there or no?

After some consideration, here is my answer. You've considered two concepts: (1) deception and (2) rape, but there is a third intermediary concept: consent. So the op question should really be two questions: (1) is all deception related to sex between two people make the sex non-consensual and (2) is all non-consensual sex rape?

In regard to question (2), sex is a broad category that does not just include intercourse and so all non-consensual sex is not rape, but may be some other forms of sexual assault. I will add that the distinction between sex assault and rape is often a legal distinction decided at the state level in the US and so it may be murky sometimes. I mentioned "intercourse" specifically because I think non-consensual intercourse may always be defined as rape, regardless of the US state.

In regard to question (1), you've already given trivial counter-examples in the op of deception that is not rape. If the deception is willful, intended to trick the victim into sex, and the victim would only have sex with the deception, then the sex is non-consensual. A lot of women dye their hair and most men ought to be aware of that and most men knowingly have sex with women who dye their hair. It's unreasonable to think this is a significant deal-breaker for consent. Flip side: RavenSky's example: her victimizer seems to have intended to deceive her into sex and there was a significant deal-breaker involved. So it was non-consensual. It seemed to involve significant enough sex to be called rape in any legal jurisdiction.

 

[Bronzeage]

Regarding the question posed in the OP, does Deception = Rape?, there's this:

'Stealthing' --the practice of removing condoms during sex -- is on the rise

To what degree does the change from condom protected sexual intercourse to unprotected sex without one of the participant's knowledge affect their consent? I think it invalidates consent entirely.

If a woman tells a man she is using birth control, and becomes pregnant, it does not relieve the man of any responsibility for the child. If a man tells a woman, he has had a vasectomy and she later becomes pregnant, she has no special case for fraud or deception against him.

Any sexual act comes with a certain risk for both partners. The law has no practical remedy for a person who accepts a known risk and suffers for it.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Regarding the question posed in the OP, does Deception = Rape?, there's this:

'Stealthing' --the practice of removing condoms during sex -- is on the rise

To what degree does the change from condom protected sexual intercourse to unprotected sex without one of the participant's knowledge affect their consent? I think it invalidates consent entirely.

Another underhanded tactic is poking holes in the condom to make it faulty. I've heard stories about women doing this in hope of getting pregnant against the intention of the man they are having sex with. I don't know how common that actually is however.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

In regard to question (1), you've already given trivial counter-examples in the op of deception that is not rape. If the deception is willful, intended to trick the victim into sex, and the victim would only have sex with the deception, then the sex is non-consensual.

Do you think it should be particular to that person or more of a reasonable person test? There COULD be some oddballs that really do care very much about dyed hair, etc. Others oddballs may find what happened to Ravensky not objectionable. It is hard to read minds and how could we really know what is and what is not a deal breaker if we are hiding it from the other person?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

It is hard to read minds and how could we really know what is and what is not a deal breaker if we are hiding it from the other person?

Deception isn't the only problem creating lack of consent. Affirmative consent mitigates not only the deception problem as it relates to consent, but also mistakes, assumptions, and other consent problems. Of course, if you bring it up around here, the HeMan Women Haters Club goes into Masculinist Overdrive.

 

[Malintent]

the HeMan Women Haters Club goes into Masculinist Overdrive.

AWWWWWW FUEY!

 

[LordKiran]

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/bwN-rJlTeJs?t=147[/YOUTUBE]

Seems oddly fitting here.

 

[repoman]

The only example that should be severely punished is to threaten to spread rumors that she had sex with you if she doesn't. Not sure what that is, but it is close to rape.

Kind of more creepy that this example was used.

The guy in the hoody is a comic genius. Incredible timing.

Doughy middle aged breakout star waiting to happen.

 

[LordKiran]

The only example that should be severely punished is to threaten to spread rumors that she had sex with you if she doesn't. Not sure what that is, but it is close to rape.

Kind of more creepy that this example was used.

Extortion and sexual abuse I guess?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The only example that should be severely punished is to threaten to spread rumors that she had sex with you if she doesn't. Not sure what that is, but it is close to rape.

I believe the cops would call it extortion.