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Defending HItler

Jolly_Penguin

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I found this online and found it interesting: http://www.rense.com/general30/schol.htm

George Steiner, Cambridge professor of English and comparative literature, author of numerous scholarly books such as Tolstoy or Dostoyevsky, Language and Silence etc, set out his sobering views in a novel called The Portage to San Cristobal of A.H. (1981). Strangely enough - Dr Steiner is a Jew - he uses his imagination to hypothetically 'give Hitler the chance to defend himself before a Jewish court', 'to defend the indefensible'. How on earth can a Cambridge professor, a Jew, in effect defend A.H., claimed by Jews to be the 'greatest embodiment of evil in human history'? What can be his argument? In summary (Steiner pp 120-126):

Point One: 'The Nazi race doctrines were but a "parody" of the Jewish doctrine of "a chosen people, chosen by God for his own, the only race on earth chosen, exalted, made singular among mankind.. to set a race apart, to hold before it a promised land".'
Point Two: 'The Jew's addiction to [his version of] the ideal.. "It is no accident that Marx and his minions were Jews, that the congregations of Bolshevism - Trotsky, Rosa Luxemberg, Kamenev, the whole fanatic, murderous pack - were of Israel..'
[Chaim Bermant in his book The Jews devotes a chapter to this aspect of Communism that is hardly generally known. The author, himself Jewish, writes with a certain authority and familiarity concerning his subject and can hardly be accused of the charge of 'anti-Semitism' which is usually leveled at anyone who offers any criticism, no matter how justified, of Jews. "No people is so averse to change yet none in recent times has dissipated more of its energy on revolution.. Although Jews formed less than five percent of Russia's population, they formed more than fifty percent of its revolutionaries..

"It must be added that most of the leading revolutionaries who convulsed Europe in the final decades of the last century and the first decades of this one, stemmed from prosperous Jewish families.. They were perhaps typified by the father of revolution, Karl Marx.. Thus when, after the chaos of World War I, revolutions broke out all over Europe, Jews were everywhere at the helm; Trotsky, Sverdlov, Kamenev and Zinoviev in Russia, Bela Kun in Hungary, Kurt Eisner in Bavaria, and, most improbable of all, Rosa Luxemburg in Berlin.

"To many outside observers, the Russian revolution looked like a Jewish conspiracy, especially when it was followed by Jewish-led revolutionary outbreaks in much of central Europe. The leadership of the Bolshevik Party had a preponderance of Jews and included Litvinov (real name Wallach), Liadov (Mandelshtam), Shklovsky, Saltz, Gusev (Drabkin), Zemliachka (Salkind), Helena Rozmirovich, Serafima Gopner, Yaroslavsky (Gubelman), Yaklovlev (Epstein), Riaznov (Goldendach), Uritsky and Larin. Of the seven members of the Politburo, the inner cabinet of the country, four, Trotsky (Bronstein), Zinoviev (Radomsky), Kamenev (Rosenfeld) and Sverdlov, were Jews."]

Point Three: "You have exaggerated. Grossly. Hysterically. What were Rotterdam or Coventry compared to Dresden and Hiroshima? Did I invent the camps? Ask the Boers.. To whom did you hand over millions, tens of millions of men and women from Prague to the Baltic? What did [Solzhenitsyn] say? That Stalin had slaughtered thirty million. I was a man of a murderous time, but a small man compared to him. That he perfected genocide [of the kulaks] when I was still a nameless scribbler in Munich. My boys used their fists and their whips. I won't deny it. The times stank of hunger and blood. But when a man spat out the truth they would stop their fun. Stalin's torturers worked for the pleasure of the thing. To make men befoul themselves, to obtain confessions that are lies, insanities, obscene jokes. The truth only made them more bestial. It is not I who assert these things: it is your own Jewish survivors, your historians, the sage of the Gulag. Who, then was the great destroyer, whose blood-lust the more implacable? Stalin's or mine? Our terrors were a village carnival compared to his. Our camps covered absurd acres; he had strung wire and death-pits around a continent. Yet Stalin died in bed, and yet you hunt me down like a rabid dog.."
Point Four: 'Zionism was shaped in the image of German nationalism.. "The Holocaust gave you the courage of injustice, to drive the Arab out of his home, out of his field, because he was without resource, because he was in your way, knowing that those you had driven out were rotting in refugee camps, not ten miles away, buried alive in despair and lunatic dreams of vengeance.. You used the Holocaust to create Israel.. Should you not honour me who have made your long, vacuous dream of Zion a reality?".'
Why is anti-Palestinianism, unquestionably a form of anti-Semitism, not 'politically incorrect'? As various commentators have been pointing out for more than half a century, the Palestinians have been made to pay for the Holocaust over this extended period, and are still doing so.

So that is the best that can be drummed up to try to defend the indefensible Hitler?

I find the point about being a "chosen people" interesting. I thought the same when I first read the old testament bible, and how the God directed them to slaughter their neighbours etc. It made the holocaust take on a note of twisted irony.

The point about comparing to Stalin is also interesting. Do you agree Stalin was the bug bigger monster than Hitler, and if so, why is Hitler remembered as THE big evil in history?

And the point about the Bolsheviks being mostly jewish... is that true? Was there an attraction to communism specifically for Jews? It does make some sense I suppose since communism was supposed to be about equality of all and Jews had faced a lot of oppression throughout the ages, so may be especially likely to go for an ideology that touts that.

Any other thoughts? If you were given the impossible job as Hitler's defence advocate, what else could you possibly try to bring up? That he didn't get into arts school? :p
 
So that is the best that can be drummed up to try to defend the indefensible Hitler?

I find the point about being a "chosen people" interesting.

Yeah. Other than that it seems to be mostly prototypical "whataboutism". But hey - whataboutism seems pretty effective today, so why not?
 
The notable difference between Stalin and Hitler is that Stalin killed everyone he wanted to kill, but Hitler was stopped before he could. His plans were to kill far, far more. According to his known plans, half the population of European Russia was to be killed, the other half to be exploited as labor or forced to relocate to Siberia, with doubtless more losses resulting. And this doesn't include 100% of Jews, 100% of Roma, a good chunk of Poles, etc, etc. Total losses would have easily exceeded 100 Million.

Given that you think the Japanese only killed 'Thousands' of Chinese, I'm curious as to how many people you think Hitler killed.
 

Difference between Stalin and Hitler is that Stalin was killing his own people, whereas Hitler was killing non-germans.
 
We glorify the Roman Empire and the Caesars although they murdered hundreds of thousands and maned and enslaved millions.
Holocaust deniers know this, and if they could just espouse that one dirty fact, then Hitler did some really good things for Germany and wasn't any worse than Napoleon.
Unfortunately, time will forgive Hitler of much.
 
Difference between Stalin and Hitler is that Stalin was killing his own people, whereas Hitler was killing non-germans.

That's an interesting point. Should it matter?

- - - Updated - - -

We glorify the Roman Empire and the Caesars although they murdered hundreds of thousands and maned and enslaved millions.
Holocaust deniers know this, and if they could just espouse that one dirty fact, then Hitler did some really good things for Germany and wasn't any worse than Napoleon.
Unfortunately, time will forgive Hitler of much.

I think we had a few monstrous men in History (Stalin, Genghis Khan, Napoleon, Roman Emperors, etc) but I think Hitler has been synonymized with evil more than any other will. Hitler is the go to guy for comparing to being evil. I don't see that ending any time soon.
 
Difference between Stalin and Hitler is that Stalin was killing his own people, whereas Hitler was killing non-germans.
Orly? Stalin was a Georgian who became the dictator of the Federation of soviet states. And Hitler was an Austrian who became the dictator of Germany to which he managed to annex Austria. Not that any of this matters unless you regard murder morally less objectionable if the victims live in foreign lands.
 
Difference between Stalin and Hitler is that Stalin was killing his own people, whereas Hitler was killing non-germans.
Orly? Stalin was a Georgian who became the dictator of the Federation of soviet states. And Hitler was an Austrian who became the dictator of Germany to which he managed to annex Austria. Not that any of this matters unless you regard murder morally less objectionable if the victims live in foreign lands.
Yes, people in Soviet Union were his people.The fact that he was georgian is irrelevant. He killed a lot of georgians too
 
Difference between Stalin and Hitler is that Stalin was killing his own people, whereas Hitler was killing non-germans.
Orly? Stalin was a Georgian who became the dictator of the Federation of soviet states. And Hitler was an Austrian who became the dictator of Germany to which he managed to annex Austria. Not that any of this matters unless you regard murder morally less objectionable if the victims live in foreign lands.
Yes, people in Soviet Union were his people.The fact that he was georgian is irrelevant. He killed a lot of georgians too
So you do regard murder morally less objectionable if the victims live in foreign lands. Some consolation for the dead, I suppose. "I have good news for you, Moshe. Murdering you is not as objectionable as murdering Heiko. Now go and have your shower. Don't worry. It'll only take 20 minutes before you'll feel no more pain.

Hey, Obersturmbannführer. Order another thousand litres of Zyklon B, schnell. Our queue of customers is growing too fast. What happened to your German Taugligkeit? Los, Mann"
 
We're a vicious, tribal species, programmed as tribal hunter-gatherers. We're not wired to extend moral consideration to out-groups. This 'civilization' is a new thing. Few are capable of extra-tribal compassion. Our cosmopolitanism is a thin veneer.
 
Yes, people in Soviet Union were his people.The fact that he was georgian is irrelevant. He killed a lot of georgians too
So you do regard murder morally less objectionable if the victims live in foreign lands. Some consolation for the dead, I suppose. "I have good news for you, Moshe. Murdering you is not as objectionable as murdering Heiko. Now go and have your shower. Don't worry. It'll only take 20 minutes before you'll feel no more pain.

Hey, Obersturmbannführer. Order another thousand litres of Zyklon B, schnell. Our queue of customers is growing too fast. What happened to your German Taugligkeit? Los, Mann"
I am sorry, I don't follow.
 
Yes, people in Soviet Union were his people.The fact that he was georgian is irrelevant. He killed a lot of georgians too
So you do regard murder morally less objectionable if the victims live in foreign lands. Some consolation for the dead, I suppose. "I have good news for you, Moshe. Murdering you is not as objectionable as murdering Heiko. Now go and have your shower. Don't worry. It'll only take 20 minutes before you'll feel no more pain.

Hey, Obersturmbannführer. Order another thousand litres of Zyklon B, schnell. Our queue of customers is growing too fast. What happened to your German Taugligkeit? Los, Mann"
I am sorry, I don't follow.

He didn't watch the video. Nor did I until just now. I see your point.
 
The Jews when they had power in the past did not pursue enlarging the religion by force as did later Christians and Muslims. Today Jews do not pursue converts. Nazi philosophy and Jews is a false equivalence

.By definition most religions are exclusionary

The RCC still maintains they are the only way to an imagined heaven. The 'one true church' for which the pope is god's spokesman on Earth..
 
The Jews when they had power in the past did not pursue enlarging the religion by force as did later Christians and Muslims. Today Jews do not pursue converts. Nazi philosophy and Jews is a false equivalence

You're forgetting the Hasmoneans and the Idumeans.
 
The Jews when they had power in the past did not pursue enlarging the religion by force as did later Christians and Muslims. Today Jews do not pursue converts. Nazi philosophy and Jews is a false equivalence

You're forgetting the Hasmoneans and the Idumeans.

I did noy say ancient Jews were not warlike and aggressive.
 
The Jews when they had power in the past did not pursue enlarging the religion by force as did later Christians and Muslims. Today Jews do not pursue converts. Nazi philosophy and Jews is a false equivalence

You're forgetting the Hasmoneans and the Idumeans.

I did noy say ancient Jews were not warlike and aggressive.

Then perhaps you’ll remember that the Idumeans were forcibly converted.


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They can't run their high level gypsy-like cons unless they are a minority. There is no benefit to make everyone Jewish. A parasite needs a large host population.
 
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