Defending HItler

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I will add I've searched humbleman's posts in fora, and it's pure lunacy.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Finally, Jason's continual, deliberate obtuseness, where he feigns ignorance of the dodgy tactics of his political allies, is something that I have observed before, and is well on display here.

I have no idea who you think you are referring to when you mention those who you imagine are my political allies.

 

[laughing dog]

Are you suggesting Humbleman was merely engaging in devil's advocacy?

I suspect that is the case, although having never conversed directly with him I cannot tell.

How does denying the Holocaust with idiotic analogies help to determine the whether the Holocaust actually occurred?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Are you suggesting Humbleman was merely engaging in devil's advocacy?

I suspect that is the case, although having never conversed directly with him I cannot tell.

How does denying the Holocaust with idiotic analogies help to determine the whether the Holocaust actually occurred?

I don't know. It is his argument, not mine. If you think you can do a better job with the thread topic I'd like to see it though.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

How does denying the Holocaust with idiotic analogies help to determine the whether the Holocaust actually occurred?

I don't know. It is his argument, not mine. If you think you can do a better job with the thread topic I'd like to see it though.

His arguments were not credible and then refuted. He may not even be playing devil's advocate given other weird opinions in other fora. That didn't stop you from defending him and insulting others. In a Hitler thread!

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

My only defense has been that it appears to me that he is playing devil's advocate.

My only insult is noting that people are not willing to allow someone to do that to Hitler.

In what isn't just a Hitler thread, but a thread about theoretically defending him.

 

[laughing dog]

How does denying the Holocaust with idiotic analogies help to determine the whether the Holocaust actually occurred?

I don't know. ...

Then how can you claim he is playing devil's advocate?

Saying "nuh uh" to reality is not a defense.

 

[Ford]

How does denying the Holocaust with idiotic analogies help to determine the whether the Holocaust actually occurred?

I don't know. It is his argument, not mine.

And yet you've spent a good portion of this thread basically saying "now hold on here...he might have a point."

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Personally, and I have no evidence for this, it wouldn't surprise me if humbleman was a regular forum poster who adopted this new name specifically to keep idiots from attaching that exercise to his actual account.

The Holocaust denial exercise?

Because again, he wasn't defending "Mr. Hitler" by explaining the reasons behind what his "client" clearly did, but rather by denying that any of it happened. Humbleman repeatedly denied not just the existence of gas chambers, but claimed that their existence was scientifically impossible.

That's patently indefensible.

That isn't indefensible. That's an intellectual exercise. We can show that he's wrong, how it works scientifically, and actually learn something rather than preach righteous indignation. Nothing wrong with a holocaust denial exercise, or any other exercise of taking a unpopular position and investigating how feasible it may be and what if any arguments exist for it. I started this thread in the same sense, calling for a defence of Hitler. I started it alongside another thread calling for a defence of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

I quite enjoy trying to see different perspectives and arguments for what everyone in my society considers the obvious bad guy or the obvious wrong think. It broadens my horizons, and opens up insights into both how the deranged think and how some aspects of where they come from may even have some justification.

 

[Bronzeage]

The "Devil's Advocate" position was not used as a platform with which to spread heresy. These so-called 'intellectual exercises' are highly suspect to be actual white supremacist propaganda, for many reasons.

1. Although it purports to be a defense of 'mr Hitler,' pages of this thread have gone by without him being mentioned, only long winded and implausible arguments as to how the Holocaust didn't happen. Some of these arguments I have never seen before, though I suspect if we investigated we'd find them originating on a white supremacist site.

2. As pointed out, this is not how a real lawyer would ever defend a client. I do not know what how the law firm of Harvestdancer and Humbleman operates, but most lawyers defending a murder suspect don't go around denying that the murder actually occurred. If this were an actual criminal defense, I suspect the lawyer would use insanity as their main argument. A real lawyer might have pointed out that thanks to his quack physician, Hitler was continually on drugs throughout the entire war. A real lawyer would have talked about his being gassed in world war 1. I have never, ever, seen one of these supposedly 'intellectual exercises' use that defense, only real historians in their musings, within books that make no attempt to deny the holocaust. Why would that be? Because the ostensible goal is not the actual goal.

3. A concerted effort to deny the Holocaust actually exists, so therefore, 'exercises' like this cannot be regarded as existing in a vacuum. While yes, an intellectual defense of Hitler might be an appropriate thing for discussion on a legal board, or among historians, or so forth, that one should appear on this board, which has for years been used by open white supremacists as a place to test their ideas, at the same time as white supremacist philosophy is attempting to stage a comeback, cannot be regarded without suspicion.

4. Finally, Jason's continual, deliberate obtuseness, where he feigns ignorance of the dodgy tactics of his political allies, is something that I have observed before, and is well on display here. He can see all kinds of political conspiracies on the left, but he cannot fathom how an 'intellectual, devil's advocate argument might be used to actually spread these contrarian ideas. And yet he never comes down with his 'you can't prove that's so, so take it at face value,' when its on the other side.

The problem of the Holocaust is that it's hell on the sales pitch.

Every since Hitler's burned bones were scattered over the beer garden above his bunker, Nazis, Neo-Nazis, and Post Modernist Nazis, have been trying to sell Nazism. Hitler makes it look so easy in the newsreels, but he had a real advantage. Hitler never had to explain the Holocaust. When today's Nazi gets out of his mother's basement, or his garage apartment, and tries to interest people who have normal haircuts, in Nazism, white supremacy, and all that stuff, the first question that comes up is, "Aren't they the guys who killed all those Jews?"

For some reason, your Average American just can't wrap their head around the idea of killing people because of the church they attend. The Nazi is in a real bind. If they try to explain that Jews control the world banking system and want to grind white people into slavery, everybody writes them off as crazy. Nobody who has a job where facial tattoos would be discouraged wants to have anything to do with people who think mass murder is a tool of social engineering.

This dilemma is the genesis of Holocaust denial. It was Hitler's single largest political blunder. Because of his Final Solution, Nazism is forever cursed to be a fringe movement, never to exercise real political power again. His present day followers have chosen to deal with this by taking a new tack and just say, "What Holocaust? We haven't seen any Holocaust around here." They know it's best to leave the Nazi stuff out of the conversation until the Holocaust questions die down a little. It seldom works, because just as soon as the time seems good, Schindler's List, the musical, opens on Broadway. There's so much drama in the idea of killing 6 million people(give or take) popular culture can't let it be. Try as they might, they just can't make Nazis look like bad guys, unless they were trying to kill Hitler, or something.

That's really all there is to it. Scrape the soot off a Holocaust denier and you'll find a Nazi with a fresh sales pitch, who wants you to know what white power can mean in your life.

 

[Ford]

I started this thread in the same sense, calling for a defence of Hitler. I started it alongside another thread calling for a defence of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

Sorry, but there's a difference between defending the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and claiming it simply didn't happen.

I can understand why the Japanese would feel it was necessary to attack the US fleet as they sat moored in Hawaii. That's defensible, at least from the perspective of the Japanese military. But Holocaust denial is like claiming that all those battleships were not in fact sunk by the Japanese. All the film of the aftermath of the attack was faked. All the stories of the survivors were faked. The Arizona Memorial is a recreation of a ship that didn't sink, and the entire Pacific war was based on an elaborate ruse.

That's not a defense of the attack. That's denying the very well established fact that it happened.

 

[humbleman]

OK.

It is clear that you -most of you- won't ever get it.

We all get it. You're the farts in an elevator idiot.

The gas chambers and the mass exterminations are historical fact. It happened. We have not just the witnesses, but the actual buildings, the documentation, and the testimony of the people who carried out the massacres.

The perpetrators of the genocide admitted what they did in court under oath, and their admissions were backed up by physical and forensic evidence.

There's also the demographic evidence...millions of Jews vanishing from existence at exactly the same time the above evidence tells us they were murdered.

Mr. Hitler was a murdering fuckhead. Proven guilty six ways to Sunday. The Holocaust is the most thoroughly documented attempted genocide in the history of humanity.

I have been consulting with a construction company to make blueprints based in the "evidence" provided by you, and they told me that those rooms weren't suitable at all for being used as gas chambers. This is based on the requirements for building the most rudimentary gas chamber ever existed. No sealed entrance plus no exhaust system.

Say no more.

The second evidence presented by you is circumstantial. Jews can vanish in a war because they exit the area. In the middle of the war thousands and thousands of people left their homes and migrated to other countries. There are records written in newspapers of great quantities of people trying to enter to countries is South America, and some ships were not accepted in one country but another country said "no problem".

And, this is just the reported entrance of those immigrants, because lots of people weren't reported officially.

Besides this fact, close to the end of the war, who was making the "census" counting who was there and who disappeared?

As Hitler's attorney I want to receive the information of the method used to make such an improvised census. What official jurisdiction corroborated it?

Because if you tell me that Jacob was not seen anymore, you really are not telling me that he was killed by the Nazis.

You are assuming that Jacob was killed by them.

I will ask the judge the no admission of such circumstantial evidence, it shows to be no more than a rumor.

 

[Ford]

OK.

It is clear that you -most of you- won't ever get it.

We all get it. You're the farts in an elevator idiot.

The gas chambers and the mass exterminations are historical fact. It happened. We have not just the witnesses, but the actual buildings, the documentation, and the testimony of the people who carried out the massacres.

The perpetrators of the genocide admitted what they did in court under oath, and their admissions were backed up by physical and forensic evidence.

There's also the demographic evidence...millions of Jews vanishing from existence at exactly the same time the above evidence tells us they were murdered.

Mr. Hitler was a murdering fuckhead. Proven guilty six ways to Sunday. The Holocaust is the most thoroughly documented attempted genocide in the history of humanity.

I have been consulting with a construction company to make blueprints based in the "evidence" provided by you, and they told me that those rooms weren't suitable at all for being used as gas chambers.

Great. What's the name and contact information of that company, and would a representative be willing to come here and explain those blueprints in detail? And if they've made those blueprints, can you provide them here?

Back up your claim. I'll wait.

 

[humbleman]

Reminds me Moon Hoax conspiracy. It did not happen because it could not have been done.

OK, I googled "Zyklon B", turns out it is cianide based poison. It does not require much precautions. No side effects from small doses listed. The fact that it was used as pesticide confirms that you don't need to have chemical lab equipment to work with it.

barbos.

Ask yourself the next question.

Why the whole discussion of traveling to the Moon is about pictures and films?

Look, if you want to defend the traveling to the Moon, besides pictures and films you must show "documentation" like attackers of Hitler are doing here.

Like showing the description of the machinery used, the records of the spaceship, like a black box in airplanes.

If you want to be serious about defending a traveling to the Moon, such technology must be presented as evidence, and as it is for today, such documents can't be considered anymore a "secret" because our new technology has well over passed the "rudimentary" technology of the 70's.

Here, the discussion is on the documentation, on witness, and the left structures where events of great massacres happened.

And about photographs, the defense have found one or two pictures showing Photoshop additions, an action made by the attackers of my client which compromises the veracity of their accusations.

 

[Ford]

Are you actually suggesting that there's a "Moon landing conspiracy" here?

Because if so, then you've accomplished something quite remarkable...getting me to agree with barbos.

 

[humbleman]

So all out Holocaust denial is a 'good attempt?' I shudder to think what Jason would consider to be a bad attempt.

Not just holocaust denial, science denial regarding many points refuted in this thread. Perhaps Jason will also defend this lunacy:
https://talkfreethought.org/showthr...ory-in-history&p=493514&viewfull=1#post493514

Oh no, you have no objection at all believing that time "dilates" specially when you can't prove the existence of time.

I have the same right like poor Albert and Darwin the mutant to invent my good for nothing theory and post it wherever I want.

People don't like the truth.

People love fantasies, so my Cosmicbacter is what believers in evolution, relativity, King Elvis "still is alive", and others really deserve it.

I learn lots of mathematical tricks reading a book of a Catholic priest who taught so many tricks using square roots, simple additions, no equations or logarithms, but mathematics alone which you can use in front of people having calculators in their hands. With a simple style and model, you were capable to impress anyone with your great mathematics "skills".

The book of this priest started this way:

"The world loves to be deceived, so... lets deceive them"

Here, I'm asking for the vindication of the integrity of my client, Mr. Hitler.

I will ask the accusers to present the documentation demonstrating that their daily bombing totaling millions of tons of bombs killed solely German troops and German citizens.

This will clear up the "disappearance" of hundreds of thousands of people in WW2.

 

[humbleman]

Are you actually suggesting that there's a "Moon landing conspiracy" here?

Because if so, then you've accomplished something quite remarkable...getting me to agree with barbos.

No.

As an attorney, I would ask for the correspondent documentation.

To prove Moon landing with pictures and films alone is just partial evidence.

Same as well, it is time for accusers to provide documentation of the damage on Germany by the allies daily bombings.

Documentation that does exist already even online, but they must prove that their damage didn't kill tens or hundreds of thousands of detainees working in factories and other German sites.

 

[humbleman]

I have been consulting with a construction company to make blueprints based in the "evidence" provided by you, and they told me that those rooms weren't suitable at all for being used as gas chambers.

Great. What's the name and contact information of that company, and would a representative be willing to come here and explain those blueprints in detail? And if they've made those blueprints, can you provide them here?

Back up your claim. I'll wait.

Oh come on. Bring you "witness" here the one who says he saw Germans using gas in rooms making holes in the ceiling of the building.

 

[Ford]

I have been consulting with a construction company to make blueprints based in the "evidence" provided by you, and they told me that those rooms weren't suitable at all for being used as gas chambers.

Great. What's the name and contact information of that company, and would a representative be willing to come here and explain those blueprints in detail? And if they've made those blueprints, can you provide them here?

Back up your claim. I'll wait.

Oh come on. Bring you "witness" here the one who says he saw Germans using gas in rooms making holes in the ceiling of the building.

This information has already been provided in this thread. Now, if you please, the name of that construction company?

 

[Philos]

Look, if you want to defend the traveling to the Moon, besides pictures and films you must show "documentation" like attackers of Hitler are doing here.

Folks,

I don't think that Hitler travelled to the moon; it was Venus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inHvZ25b5VY

A.