Defining the term 'Thug'.

[ronburgundy]

Yes, your thuggish type of drug dealer does tend to drive out the more gentile drug dealers. This has long been a problem for suburban drug dealers who want to expand their operations into inner city areas.

In my experience, suburban dealers typically only go through people they know. They're a close knit sort and don't like to deal with people they either don't know, or won't have someone they do know present.

An urban street dealer though has to deal with random people on the street, making protection a necessity. You don't need some crazy junkie trying to rob you after all.

It also has a lot to do with what they are dealing. People seeking pot are everywhere in every community, and pot users don't tend to have the criminality that meth and crack users have (driven by serious addiction, poverty, etc.). If your not trying to build an empire and just make some $ selling only pot, you can do it by only dealing to rather harmless people you know.

There are fewer of crack-heads, so your are forced to deal on the street to total strangers with an addiction that makes them unstable and dangerous. And if you are living in a place with lots of crack heads, then its dangerous no matter what your are doing.

 

[LordKiran]

In my experience, suburban dealers typically only go through people they know. They're a close knit sort and don't like to deal with people they either don't know, or won't have someone they do know present.

An urban street dealer though has to deal with random people on the street, making protection a necessity. You don't need some crazy junkie trying to rob you after all.

It also has a lot to do with what they are dealing. People seeking pot are everywhere in every community, and pot users don't tend to have the criminality that meth and crack users have (driven by serious addiction, poverty, etc.). If your not trying to build an empire and just make some $ selling only pot, you can do it by only dealing to rather harmless people you know.

There are fewer of crack-heads, so your are forced to deal on the street to total strangers with an addiction that makes them unstable and dangerous. And if you are living in a place with lots of crack heads, then its dangerous no matter what your are doing.

I don't know what makes you think this, but the suburban heroine crisis begs to differ. Suburban neighborhoods are SWIMMING in hard drugs. You just never hear about it unless the cops make a big bust in someone's basement meth lab because cops tend to leave the suburbs alone.

 

[Bronzeage]

Yes, your thuggish type of drug dealer does tend to drive out the more gentile drug dealers. This has long been a problem for suburban drug dealers who want to expand their operations into inner city areas.

In my experience, suburban dealers typically only go through people they know. They're a close knit sort and don't like to deal with people they either don't know, or won't have someone they do know present.

An urban street dealer though has to deal with random people on the street, making protection a necessity. You don't need some crazy junkie trying to rob you after all.

I'll defer to your experience in these matters, but I'll put a meth head up against any crazy junkie.

 

[LordKiran]

In my experience, suburban dealers typically only go through people they know. They're a close knit sort and don't like to deal with people they either don't know, or won't have someone they do know present.

An urban street dealer though has to deal with random people on the street, making protection a necessity. You don't need some crazy junkie trying to rob you after all.

I'll defer to your experience in these matters, but I'll put a meth head up against any crazy junkie.

I'm actually interested to hear your input if you have any. I am after all only one person with one point of view.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It also has a lot to do with what they are dealing. People seeking pot are everywhere in every community, and pot users don't tend to have the criminality that meth and crack users have (driven by serious addiction, poverty, etc.). If your not trying to build an empire and just make some $ selling only pot, you can do it by only dealing to rather harmless people you know.

There are fewer of crack-heads, so your are forced to deal on the street to total strangers with an addiction that makes them unstable and dangerous. And if you are living in a place with lots of crack heads, then its dangerous no matter what your are doing.

I don't know what makes you think this, but the suburban heroine crisis begs to differ. Suburban neighborhoods are SWIMMING in hard drugs. You just never hear about it unless the cops make a big bust in someone's basement meth lab because cops tend to leave the suburbs alone.

I don't know about the numbers but the street dealing vs friends dealing makes a big difference to the level of violence.

 

[LordKiran]

I don't know what makes you think this, but the suburban heroine crisis begs to differ. Suburban neighborhoods are SWIMMING in hard drugs. You just never hear about it unless the cops make a big bust in someone's basement meth lab because cops tend to leave the suburbs alone.

I don't know about the numbers but the street dealing vs friends dealing makes a big difference to the level of violence.

Maybe, but hard drugs are pretty easy to get no matter where you go, and depending which experts you listen to, have only gotten easier to get access to over the decades.

 

[Arctish]

2. a racist term conveying contempt for blacks, especially black males; a euphemism for ni**er.

While that allegation is bandied about a lot, I have yet to see any evidence that such use is widespread at all.

I don't know how widespread the use of 'thug' as a derogatory term for a black male is in general, but on this discussion board it's used that way with great frequency.

Has there been a thread about a black male in the past couple of years where someone hasn't called the guy a 'thug' or talked about his 'thug life' or his 'thug culture' even when he didn't fit definition #1 at all? What about the white guys who fit definition #1 to a T, but aren't called 'thugs' by the posters who use that term more than anyone else?

There a racial component at play in how some posters use the term, and I think we all can see it.

 

[ronburgundy]

It also has a lot to do with what they are dealing. People seeking pot are everywhere in every community, and pot users don't tend to have the criminality that meth and crack users have (driven by serious addiction, poverty, etc.). If your not trying to build an empire and just make some $ selling only pot, you can do it by only dealing to rather harmless people you know.

There are fewer of crack-heads, so your are forced to deal on the street to total strangers with an addiction that makes them unstable and dangerous. And if you are living in a place with lots of crack heads, then its dangerous no matter what your are doing.

I don't know what makes you think this, but the suburban heroine crisis begs to differ. Suburban neighborhoods are SWIMMING in hard drugs. You just never hear about it unless the cops make a big bust in someone's basement meth lab because cops tend to leave the suburbs alone.

I'm not saying there are no hard drugs in the suburbs. I'm saying that the lesser dangers of selling to a close circle of known people rather than on the street is at least as much about what your selling as where you are selling it. One reason that crack dealers are way more likely to carry guns and/or have armed accomplices nearby when they deal, is because making any real $ from crack means casting a wider net via street dealing to strangers (which also means more turf wars), plus having to deal with people on crack or so desperate for it they are willing to get violent for it.

Even in the burbs, meth and heroin dealing entails more violence and guns than pot-only dealing (unless your talking about a massive operation with organized crime involvement).

 

[ronburgundy]

I don't know about the numbers but the street dealing vs friends dealing makes a big difference to the level of violence.

Maybe, but hard drugs are pretty easy to get no matter where you go, and depending which experts you listen to, have only gotten easier to get access to over the decades.

Hard drugs are easy to get because they are sold on the streets, so you just need to know the street to go to. They have to be on the streets, because if you have a bag of crack rocks, the odds are very low that you personally know enough people who smoke crack to sell it. OTOH, almost everyone who lives anywhere knows enough pot smokers to have a small pot dealing operation.

I was in high school in San Diego in the mid 1980's, when it was "the meth capital of the World". Yet all my friends smoked pot regularly and only 2 (out of my 15 closest friends) did meth. We got all our pot from small time dealers who dealt only out of their home to friends and never once were offered meth or anything else, because they were pot only dealers. Twice I happened to be in the car when a meth using friend needed to go get meth, and both times that went to a part of town we never otherwise were in and bought on the street from people they didn't know and the threat level clearly felt by all was way higher than any pot transactions. Incidentally, both those meth using friends were the only one's in our circle who dropped out of school and one died.

 

[LordKiran]

Maybe, but hard drugs are pretty easy to get no matter where you go, and depending which experts you listen to, have only gotten easier to get access to over the decades.

Hard drugs are easy to get because they are sold on the streets, so you just need to know the street to go to. They have to be on the streets, because if you have a bag of crack rocks, the odds are very low that you personally know enough people who smoke crack to sell it. OTOH, almost everyone who lives anywhere knows enough pot smokers to have a small pot dealing operation.

I was in high school in San Diego in the mid 1980's, when it was "the meth capital of the World". Yet all my friends smoked pot regularly and only 2 (out of my 15 closest friends) did meth. We got all our pot from small time dealers who dealt only out of their home to friends and never once were offered meth or anything else, because they were pot only dealers. Twice I happened to be in the car when a meth using friend needed to go get meth, and both times that went to a part of town we never otherwise were in and bought on the street from people they didn't know and the threat level clearly felt by all was way higher than any pot transactions. Incidentally, both those meth using friends were the only one's in our circle who dropped out of school and one died.

My experience has been entirely different. If I was to ever want an upper, I have a list of people I can call to come here, much of which is made in-house. There's been a time when someone even offered to store his inventory on our property and we live on the 'respectable' side of the river. You know, the one with the quaint little shops and the old homes.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't know about the numbers but the street dealing vs friends dealing makes a big difference to the level of violence.

Maybe, but hard drugs are pretty easy to get no matter where you go, and depending which experts you listen to, have only gotten easier to get access to over the decades.

Which has nothing to do with my point about the hazards of street dealing.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

While that allegation is bandied about a lot, I have yet to see any evidence that such use is widespread at all.

I don't know how widespread the use of 'thug' as a derogatory term for a black male is in general, but on this discussion board it's used that way with great frequency.

Has there been a thread about a black male in the past couple of years where someone hasn't called the guy a 'thug' or talked about his 'thug life' or his 'thug culture' even when he didn't fit definition #1 at all? What about the white guys who fit definition #1 to a T, but aren't called 'thugs' by the posters who use that term more than anyone else?

There a racial component at play in how some posters use the term, and I think we all can see it.

No discussions about Obama??

However, when a black male manages to make the news (and thus be a likely topic of discussion on here) it's usually due to thuggish behavior.

 

[Mumbles]

No discussions about Obama??

However, when a black male manages to make the news (and thus be a likely topic of discussion on here) it's usually due to thuggish behavior.

Yes, horrible thuggish behavior like...shouting after a football game, walking down a street in the rain, or going to the White House to recite poetry.

 

[Arctish]

I don't know how widespread the use of 'thug' as a derogatory term for a black male is in general, but on this discussion board it's used that way with great frequency.

Has there been a thread about a black male in the past couple of years where someone hasn't called the guy a 'thug' or talked about his 'thug life' or his 'thug culture' even when he didn't fit definition #1 at all? What about the white guys who fit definition #1 to a T, but aren't called 'thugs' by the posters who use that term more than anyone else?

There a racial component at play in how some posters use the term, and I think we all can see it.

No discussions about Obama??

He appears to have used definition #1. Discuss.

However, when a black male manages to make the news (and thus be a likely topic of discussion on here) it's usually due to thuggish behavior.

Well, when a white male manages to make the news (and thus be a likely topic of discussion on here) it's usually due to thuggish behavior, too. And some posters will call them thugs. However, the posters most likely to use the term 'thugs' use it almost exclusively to describe black males. They even use it to describe black males that don't fit definition #1 at all. And they actively resist using it to describe violent criminals who commit crimes such as robbery, assault, battery, vandalism, etc. when the criminals are white.


So there's another definition in use on this board, and I'm interested in bringing it to light.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well, when a white male manages to make the news (and thus be a likely topic of discussion on here) it's usually due to thuggish behavior, too. And some posters will call them thugs. However, the posters most likely to use the term 'thugs' use it almost exclusively to describe black males. They even use it to describe black males that don't fit definition #1 at all. And they actively resist using it to describe violent criminals who commit crimes such as robbery, assault, battery, vandalism, etc. when the criminals are white.


So there's another definition in use on this board, and I'm interested in bringing it to light.

The white males that make the news often are for misdeeds other than thuggish behavior. For example, the sex offenses by various right-wing scumbags.

 

[Arctish]

Well, when a white male manages to make the news (and thus be a likely topic of discussion on here) it's usually due to thuggish behavior, too. And some posters will call them thugs. However, the posters most likely to use the term 'thugs' use it almost exclusively to describe black males. They even use it to describe black males that don't fit definition #1 at all. And they actively resist using it to describe violent criminals who commit crimes such as robbery, assault, battery, vandalism, etc. when the criminals are white.


So there's another definition in use on this board, and I'm interested in bringing it to light.

The white males that make the news often are for misdeeds other than thuggish behavior. For example, the sex offenses by various right-wing scumbags.

The violent criminals who make the news for thuggish behavior are the ones we're talking about, not the sex offenders or tax cheats. Some posters actively resist applying the term 'thug' to whites regardless of how well they fit definition #1. Those same posters apply the term to blacks who don't fit definition #1 at all. So what is the second definition in use here?

If it's not

2. a racist term conveying contempt for blacks, especially black males; a euphemism for ni**er

then what is it?

 

[Mumbles]

The white males that make the news often are for misdeeds other than thuggish behavior. For example, the sex offenses by various right-wing scumbags.

The violent criminals who make the news for thuggish behavior are the ones we're talking about, not the sex offenders or tax cheats. Some posters actively resist applying the term 'thug' to whites regardless of how well they fit definition #1. Those same posters apply the term to blacks who don't fit definition #1 at all. So what is the second definition in use here?

If it's not

2. a racist term conveying contempt for blacks, especially black males; a euphemism for ni**er

then what is it?

Calling it "a euphemism for 'nigger'." is actually going too easy on this use of the word (which is not at all restricted to this forum). The "black brute" stereotype that it refers to was specifically used as an excuse to torture and murder black men in post-reconstruction America. This is why you often see it used when some random black guy gets killed by a cop, or a wannabe cop like George Zimmerman or Michael Dunn.

 

[Derec]

Calling it "a euphemism for 'nigger'." is actually going too easy on this use of the word (which is not at all restricted to this forum).

You have yet to show that this use has been used on this forum, or that it is at all widespread outside it.

 

[Arctish]

Calling it "a euphemism for 'nigger'." is actually going too easy on this use of the word (which is not at all restricted to this forum).

You have yet to show that this use has been used on this forum, or that it is at all widespread outside it.

This thread isn't about how widespread the use of the term 'thug' is outside this forum. It's about how the term is used here.

As for showing some folks here use it as a euphemism for ni**er, be patient. We're just getting started but things are definitely trending in that direction.

Do you have another definition of 'thug' you want us to include?

 

[Derec]

It's about how the term is used here.

Then show that it has been used that way on here.

As for showing some folks here use it as a euphemism for ni**er, be patient. We're just getting started but things are definitely trending in that direction.

Including the archived predecessor fora, there is over a decade of discussions. Surely you should be able to find some instances where a person was called a "thug" just because he was black, without being a thug under definition 1.

Do you have another definition of 'thug' you want us to include?

I think the Definition 1 is a good working definition.