Defining the term 'Thug'.

[Crazy Eddie]

What is invalid about the example of how the term 'thug' is used WRT to Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman?

Where's the pattern of violence in response to minor issues?

July 18, 2005
George Zimmerman arrested and charged with resisting a police officer and battery of a police officer, two felony counts that prosecutors eventually dropped after Zimmerman completed a pre-trial diversion program. Zimmerman served no jail time and, despite the violent nature of his offense, retained his permit to carry a concealed handgun in the state of Florida.

Also in 2005, a Florida judge issued mutual restraining orders against Zimmerman and his estranged fiancée, Samantha Scheibe, who alleged that Zimmerman threatened her with his shotgun during a domestic dispute

Feb. 26, 2012
Trails Trayvon Martin from a 7-11 in Twin Lakes, Fla. When Martin tries to flee, Zimmerman exits his car to confront him, wrestles him to the ground, and shoots him dead at point blank range.

Sept. 2013
Shellie Zimmerman files for divorce after George assaults her father in the driveway of his home and brandishes a handgun, saying "step closer!" repeatedly. Interestingly, the grounds for divorce appears to be a disagreement over the handling of the cash the two of them hoarded for George's legal defense (after first claming they were "indigent" and then pleading guilty to perjury).

Nov. 18, 2013
George Zimmerman is charged with felony assault and domestic violence after threatening his girlfriend with a shotgun. Said girlfriend is heard on a 911 call saying "He's inside my house breaking all my shit because I asked him to leave!" This is the SECOND time he is accused of threatening a girlfriend or family member with a shotgun, but the first time he is actually charged for it

Sept. 9-10, 2014
Zimmerman engaged Matthew Apperson, in a road-rage shouting match, first in traffic and then in a nearby convenience store's parking lot. A day later Apperson called local police to report that Zimmerman had trailed him to his job in hopes of another confrontation. Despite Zimmerman's persistence, Apperson declined to press charges against him.

Jan. 5, 2015
Zimmerman is accused of throwing a wine bottle at his girlfriend's head.

May 11, 2015
ANOTHER road-range incident with Mathew Apperson, this time with Apperson opening fire after Zimmerman brandishes his firearm in a threatening manner.


Loren Pechtel: would you consider George Zimmerman to be a "thug"?

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Is Vladimir Putin a thug? Is Kim Jong Un a thug? Are the Bundy supporting extremists weilding guns, thugs?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Is Vladimir Putin a thug?

Too subtle. More of a "gangster."

Is Kim Jong Un a thug?

He's crazy, but he's not violent. I think the term that best describes him is "despot" or "autocrat."

Are the Bundy supporting extremists weilding guns, thugs?

Yes.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Also, let me ask a general question, mainly for Loren, but relevant to the discussion:

IF Trayvon Martin also had a history of violence and could be called a "thug" by definition #1, would the term then NOT be applicable to Zimmerman?

Corollary: is "thug" a relative term, or is it possible for two different people to get into a conflict such that BOTH of them are, in fact, thugs?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Where's the pattern of violence in response to minor issues?

July 18, 2005
George Zimmerman arrested and charged with resisting a police officer and battery of a police officer, two felony counts that prosecutors eventually dropped after Zimmerman completed a pre-trial diversion program. Zimmerman served no jail time and, despite the violent nature of his offense, retained his permit to carry a concealed handgun in the state of Florida.

Which says to me the charge was bullshit in the first place.

Also in 2005, a Florida judge issued mutual restraining orders against Zimmerman and his estranged fiancée, Samantha Scheibe, who alleged that Zimmerman threatened her with his shotgun during a domestic dispute

Note: mutual. Looks like more bullshit.

Feb. 26, 2012
Trails Trayvon Martin from a 7-11 in Twin Lakes, Fla. When Martin tries to flee, Zimmerman exits his car to confront him, wrestles him to the ground, and shoots him dead at point blank range.

Wife-beater.

Sept. 2013
Shellie Zimmerman files for divorce after George assaults her father in the driveway of his home and brandishes a handgun, saying "step closer!" repeatedly. Interestingly, the grounds for divorce appears to be a disagreement over the handling of the cash the two of them hoarded for George's legal defense (after first claming they were "indigent" and then pleading guilty to perjury).

I'm not very impressed with claims arising out of divorce issues.

Nov. 18, 2013
George Zimmerman is charged with felony assault and domestic violence after threatening his girlfriend with a shotgun. Said girlfriend is heard on a 911 call saying "He's inside my house breaking all my shit because I asked him to leave!" This is the SECOND time he is accused of threatening a girlfriend or family member with a shotgun, but the first time he is actually charged for it

Again, there are a lot of bogus charges in domestic issues.

Sept. 9-10, 2014
Zimmerman engaged Matthew Apperson, in a road-rage shouting match, first in traffic and then in a nearby convenience store's parking lot. A day later Apperson called local police to report that Zimmerman had trailed him to his job in hopes of another confrontation. Despite Zimmerman's persistence, Apperson declined to press charges against him.

Violence?

Jan. 5, 2015
Zimmerman is accused of throwing a wine bottle at his girlfriend's head.

Once again, I'm not impressed with domestics.

May 11, 2015
ANOTHER road-range incident with Mathew Apperson, this time with Apperson opening fire after Zimmerman brandishes his firearm in a threatening manner.

This is the only one of your list that I would put any credence in.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Is Vladimir Putin a thug? Is Kim Jong Un a thug? Are the Bundy supporting extremists weilding guns, thugs?

No. Putin and the NK nutcases command violence, they don't engage in it.

And the Bundy supporters made a big show but didn't actually engage in violence.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Also, let me ask a general question, mainly for Loren, but relevant to the discussion:

IF Trayvon Martin also had a history of violence and could be called a "thug" by definition #1, would the term then NOT be applicable to Zimmerman?

Corollary: is "thug" a relative term, or is it possible for two different people to get into a conflict such that BOTH of them are, in fact, thugs?

It's quite possible to have a thug-on-thug fight, it's common in the gangs. However, self defense is not thuggish.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

July 18, 2005
George Zimmerman arrested and charged with resisting a police officer and battery of a police officer, two felony counts that prosecutors eventually dropped after Zimmerman completed a pre-trial diversion program. Zimmerman served no jail time and, despite the violent nature of his offense, retained his permit to carry a concealed handgun in the state of Florida.

Which says to me the charge was bullshit in the first place.

Also in 2005, a Florida judge issued mutual restraining orders against Zimmerman and his estranged fiancée, Samantha Scheibe, who alleged that Zimmerman threatened her with his shotgun during a domestic dispute

Note: mutual. Looks like more bullshit.

Feb. 26, 2012
Trails Trayvon Martin from a 7-11 in Twin Lakes, Fla. When Martin tries to flee, Zimmerman exits his car to confront him, wrestles him to the ground, and shoots him dead at point blank range.

[...]

May 11, 2015
ANOTHER road-range incident with Mathew Apperson, this time with Apperson opening fire after Zimmerman brandishes his firearm in a threatening manner.

This is the only one of your list that I would put any credence in.

That, coupled with his apparent criminal record is what is getting him labeled a thug.

So what you're saying is:

George Zimmerman's DOCUMENTED history of violence is "bullshit."
Trayvon Martin's SPECULATED history of violence is "apparent."

Therefore Trayvon Martin is a thug, and George Zimmerman is just a guy who likes to defend himself with guns.

That
is
HILARIOUS!

Also, let me ask a general question, mainly for Loren, but relevant to the discussion:

IF Trayvon Martin also had a history of violence and could be called a "thug" by definition #1, would the term then NOT be applicable to Zimmerman?

Corollary: is "thug" a relative term, or is it possible for two different people to get into a conflict such that BOTH of them are, in fact, thugs?

It's quite possible to have a thug-on-thug fight, it's common in the gangs. However, self defense is not thuggish...

... unless black people do it. Which is why Travyon Martin trying to defend himself from the individual that had been following him is a "thug" while the man who followed him and eventually KILLED him is not.

What would YOU call a person who smokes weed and steals jewelry from a mall kiosk? I would call that person a "thief."

What would YOU call a guy who follows people around with the intention of threatening and intimidating them? I would call that person a "thug."

There's a reason you're so willing to believe, without any evidence at all, that Trayvon Martin was a thief. It is the same reason you are willing to believe, DESPITE all the evidence, that George Zimmerman is a thug.

And it's pretty obvious to everyone, LP, what that reason is.

 

[RavenSky]

July 18, 2005
George Zimmerman arrested and charged with resisting a police officer and battery of a police officer, two felony counts that prosecutors eventually dropped after Zimmerman completed a pre-trial diversion program. Zimmerman served no jail time and, despite the violent nature of his offense, retained his permit to carry a concealed handgun in the state of Florida.

Which says to me the charge was bullshit in the first place.

Also in 2005, a Florida judge issued mutual restraining orders against Zimmerman and his estranged fiancée, Samantha Scheibe, who alleged that Zimmerman threatened her with his shotgun during a domestic dispute

Note: mutual. Looks like more bullshit.

Feb. 26, 2012
Trails Trayvon Martin from a 7-11 in Twin Lakes, Fla. When Martin tries to flee, Zimmerman exits his car to confront him, wrestles him to the ground, and shoots him dead at point blank range.

Wife-beater.

Sept. 2013
Shellie Zimmerman files for divorce after George assaults her father in the driveway of his home and brandishes a handgun, saying "step closer!" repeatedly. Interestingly, the grounds for divorce appears to be a disagreement over the handling of the cash the two of them hoarded for George's legal defense (after first claming they were "indigent" and then pleading guilty to perjury).

I'm not very impressed with claims arising out of divorce issues.

Nov. 18, 2013
George Zimmerman is charged with felony assault and domestic violence after threatening his girlfriend with a shotgun. Said girlfriend is heard on a 911 call saying "He's inside my house breaking all my shit because I asked him to leave!" This is the SECOND time he is accused of threatening a girlfriend or family member with a shotgun, but the first time he is actually charged for it

Again, there are a lot of bogus charges in domestic issues.

Sept. 9-10, 2014
Zimmerman engaged Matthew Apperson, in a road-rage shouting match, first in traffic and then in a nearby convenience store's parking lot. A day later Apperson called local police to report that Zimmerman had trailed him to his job in hopes of another confrontation. Despite Zimmerman's persistence, Apperson declined to press charges against him.

Violence?

Jan. 5, 2015
Zimmerman is accused of throwing a wine bottle at his girlfriend's head.

Once again, I'm not impressed with domestics.

May 11, 2015
ANOTHER road-range incident with Mathew Apperson, this time with Apperson opening fire after Zimmerman brandishes his firearm in a threatening manner.

This is the only one of your list that I would put any credence in.

I think you just proved his point. You have extremely different standards for George Zimmerman vs Trayvon Martin. I wonder why.

 

[Mumbles]

I think you just proved his point. You have extremely different standards for George Zimmerman vs Trayvon Martin. I wonder why.

What';s especially absurd is that most of this is public record - we have the recordings of Zimmerman threatening his wife and smashing an iPad, police investigated the wine bottle incident because they heard the bottle smash, He managed to record himself running after Martin (which, yet again, is bizarrely aggressive), everyone agrees that he shoved a cop, he was recorded outside Apperson's office (when he was supposedly scared to be seen outdoors), and he also managed to post an ex's racy photos on Twitter without her permission, to publicly auction off his gun, to be caught "guarding" a store without permission of the owner, and to walk up to random people in a restaurant and brag about how he killed Martin.

And I'm likely forgetting a few incidents.

And every time, he insists that *he* was the one being attacked, that Obama (who did not comment on his innocence or guilt) tried to railroad him, and blah blah blah.

And Martin...smoked some weed and got in a couple of schoolyard fights. Wow, so much worse than serial domestic abuse, and chasing down and shooting a black kid who was, in his own words, "walking around, looking about".

 

[laughing dog]

I think you just proved his point. You have extremely different standards for George Zimmerman vs Trayvon Martin. I wonder why.

I don't.

 

[Rayschism]

This website doesn't censor the word nigger?

I'm very surprised.

 

[repoman]

these are thugs

 

[Arctish]

these are thugs

thug
1. a violent person, especially a violent criminal who commits crimes such as robbery, assault, battery, and vandalism; someone with a history of resorting to violence.

2. a racist term conveying contempt for blacks, especially black males; a euphemism for ni**er.

Which definition are you using?

Is George Zimmerman more of a thug, less of a thug, or as much of a thug as the guy who threw the woman into the pool?

 

[Malintent]

Here is another correct usage of the term, from another unrelated thread:

I'm proud to say that I joined the May 1 protest in Portland, Oregon. It started off great. A large group of people wanting to protest the current state of our government. It started peacefully. There were many families there with children trying to make a point. Then all of a sudden the anarchists showed up. I saw several with disguised masks. I'm sorry, but if you wear a mask at a protest to hide your identity: you're not a protestor you're a thug. And a coward. As soon as I saw the thugs show up, I wisked my kids away. And we went home. But I heard (and then saw it on TV later) that the anarchists started throwing rocks at the cops, breaking windows, setting fires. A few anarchists ruined the entire event.

To copy Trump: very sad....

 

[Malintent]

these are thugs

thug
1. a violent person, especially a violent criminal who commits crimes such as robbery, assault, battery, and vandalism; someone with a history of resorting to violence.

2. a racist term conveying contempt for blacks, especially black males; a euphemism for ni**er.

Which definition are you using?

Is George Zimmerman more of a thug, less of a thug, or as much of a thug as the guy who threw the woman into the pool?

Excuse me, but your use of the word, "you" is racist. "you" as in "you people"?? very racist. should be ashamed <rolleyes>

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Here is another correct usage of the term, from another unrelated thread:

I'm proud to say that I joined the May 1 protest in Portland, Oregon. It started off great. A large group of people wanting to protest the current state of our government. It started peacefully. There were many families there with children trying to make a point. Then all of a sudden the anarchists showed up. I saw several with disguised masks. I'm sorry, but if you wear a mask at a protest to hide your identity: you're not a protestor you're a thug. And a coward. As soon as I saw the thugs show up, I wisked my kids away. And we went home. But I heard (and then saw it on TV later) that the anarchists started throwing rocks at the cops, breaking windows, setting fires. A few anarchists ruined the entire event.

To copy Trump: very sad....

Yeah, to me it is "a person who uses presumed position of physical power or authority to commit arbitrary acts of violence in order to either create the sense of fear or domination"

Or maybe even more simply, "People who commit acts of violence because they either have the authority or physical power or anonymity to get away with it."

 

[laughing dog]

Here is another correct usage of the term, from another unrelated thread:

I'm proud to say that I joined the May 1 protest in Portland, Oregon. It started off great. A large group of people wanting to protest the current state of our government. It started peacefully. There were many families there with children trying to make a point. Then all of a sudden the anarchists showed up. I saw several with disguised masks. I'm sorry, but if you wear a mask at a protest to hide your identity: you're not a protestor you're a thug. And a coward. As soon as I saw the thugs show up, I wisked my kids away. And we went home. But I heard (and then saw it on TV later) that the anarchists started throwing rocks at the cops, breaking windows, setting fires. A few anarchists ruined the entire event.

To copy Trump: very sad....

Simply wearing a mask at a protest does not make anyone a thug because there is nothing inherently violent about wearing a mask. Wearing a mask and in order to engage in violence, that makes you a thug. But to simply wear a mask, in and of itself, does not.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Here is another correct usage of the term, from another unrelated thread:

Simply wearing a mask at a protest does not make anyone a thug because there is nothing inherently violent about wearing a mask. Wearing a mask and in order to engage in violence, that makes you a thug. But to simply wear a mask, in and of itself, does not.

In an American protest, wearing a mask is definitely suspicious.

 

[repoman]

They are wearing masks ironically because they feel the government is so monstrous and death dealing (it is not great IMO). If that is so then they should become left wing Timothy McVeighs. While wearing masks of course.