Dem Post Mortem

[pood]

Speaking for myself — and I am sure this is true for a great many and probably most on the so-called left — the opposition to Israel with respect to Gaza has nothing to do with Muslims and Jews per se.

Of course it does. Why else would the right of Israel to defend itself from attacks by Gaza be questioned in the way no other country would be questioned if attacked in this way?

Again, I am speaking for myself.

I am not questioning their right to defend themselves. I am rejecting the idea that they have a right to commit ethnic cleansing and genocide as part of their “defense.”

It has to do with opposing the Israeli government’s forced displacement, ethnic cleansing and genocide against Gazan citizens.

There is no "genocide" in Gaza.

Yes, there is.

There is displacement, from areas of more active conflict to safer areas like Al Mawasi. Of course, Hamas ruins the intended humanitarian Al Mawasi zone by operating from it. As we already discussed in the Gaza thread.

Israel is doing far more than that, and anyway, forced displacement of populations for any reason is a war crime.

Ours is not support for Hamas, whose actions I and others have repeatedly condemned.

Maybe you have not,

I have.

but you are relativizing Hamas atrocities with your false equivalence between them and Israel.

I am not “relativizing” anything. I have condemned both atrocities by Hamas and by Israel.

And even worse, many on the left overtly support Hamas. Including the protesters in NYC who were praising "resistance" the day after the massacre by said "resistance". Those same protesters are Mamdani's core constituency.

As usual, you couldn’t be more wrong. Yoiu know nothing about NYC, its diversity, its neighborhoods, or its politics. HIs biggest wave of support was among people of South Asian descent, including Chinese.

And if it were a Muslim-led government doing the same thing to a Jewish population, I and a great many others would oppose the actions of the Muslim government and support the Jewish population. In the same way I and others oppose the Russian slaughter in Ukraine, which has nothing at all to do with Jews or Muslims. All of this has to do with opposing violence and oppression in any form.

In the case of Ukraine, you do not condemn the victim for defending itself from aggression. But in the case of Israel, you do. Why?

For the obvious reason that a huge army attacked Ukraine and is occupying large parts of it. A small band of terrorists attacked Israel and now Israel is occupying about half of Gaza.

The actual anti-semites, for that matter, are the evangelical Christians who support Israel’s actions in Gaza, because they think the war is preparatory to the Second Coming, at which time all the Jews will be required to convert to Christianity or go to hell. It does not get any more anti-semitic than that.

No, the actual antisemites are those on the left who praise Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups. Also the ones who support the Tehran regime.

No, the biggest anti-senates are all on the far right — you know, where you are.

That there may be some on the so-called left who are anti-semitic may be true, but I suggest it is a small minority. That some on the left voiced Hamas-espoused sentiments has mostly to do, I suspect, with frustration and anger at Israel and not authentic hatred of Jews.

Really? You are excusing expressions of support for Hamas violence, that has been part of the anti-Israel protests since the beginning of the war, with some kind of "frustration"? Really?

For those who actually support Hamas, I have nothing in common with them.

 

[Swammerdami]

I just noticed this headline at The Guardian:

Trump’s justice department issues directive to strip naturalized Americans of citizenship for criminal offenses

Memo says those subjected to civil proceedings are not entitled to an attorney like they are in criminal cases

My comments:
(1) Laws like this will be SELECTIVELY enforced. Whether a given "criminal" citizen is stripped of his voting right is a decision that will be made by Trump's justice department. The DoJ is now run by the Proud Boys. Any guesses which Americans they will choose to deprive of their rights?
(2) Whether the voters of New York choose Zohran or someone else in a free election is NOT what is of pre-eminent importance now. That Democrats focus on this shows huge lack of perspective. The Trumpist fascists are taking over. Free elections will be a thing of the PAST.
(3) This headline comes from The Guardian, a UK source. WHY -- Oh WHY -- are foreign news sources so often the best place to learn about what's happening in Amerika?

 

[Derec]

(3) This headline comes from The Guardian, a UK source. WHY -- Oh WHY -- are foreign news sources so often the best place to learn about what's happening in Amerika?

I noticed you only posted the headline, but not a link to the article. I wonder why.
Perhaps because then we'd be able to read this:

The memo, published on 11 June, calls on attorneys in the department to institute civil proceedings to revoke a person’s United States citizenship if an individual either “illegally procured” naturalization or procured naturalization by “concealment of a material fact or by willful misrepresentation”.

It is already the case that citizenship can be revoked under these circumstances. For example, Palestinian terrorist Rasmea Odeh was stripped of her citizenship after she was found to have lied on her immigration paperwork, lying about not having been imprisoned for a PFLP terrorist bombing that murdered two young men in 1969.
US to deport Palestinian terrorist Rasmea Odeh to Jordan

In any case, there is no mystery why Grauniad would publish an article like this with a click-baity headline. They are clearly on the left. Just look at their opinions page. Two pro-Mamdani pieces. Two pieces supporting a mayoral candidate in a different country.

 

[ZiprHead]

The New York mayor race derail has been moved to here.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

(3) This headline comes from The Guardian, a UK source. WHY -- Oh WHY -- are foreign news sources so often the best place to learn about what's happening in Amerika?

I noticed you only posted the headline, but not a link to the article. I wonder why.
Perhaps because then we'd be able to read this:

The memo, published on 11 June, calls on attorneys in the department to institute civil proceedings to revoke a person’s United States citizenship if an individual either “illegally procured” naturalization or procured naturalization by “concealment of a material fact or by willful misrepresentation”.

It is already the case that citizenship can be revoked under these circumstances. For example, Palestinian terrorist Rasmea Odeh was stripped of her citizenship after she was found to have lied on her immigration paperwork, lying about not having been imprisoned for a PFLP terrorist bombing that murdered two young men in 1969.
US to deport Palestinian terrorist Rasmea Odeh to Jordan

In any case, there is no mystery why Grauniad would publish an article like this with a click-baity headline. They are clearly on the left. Just look at their opinions page. Two pro-Mamdani pieces. Two pieces supporting a mayoral candidate in a different country.

But they aren't giving due process to those here "illegally". Why do you think they would apply due process here? They'll simply declare it illegally obtained and strip it.

 

[Swammerdami]

"Aunt Jemima, what took you so long?"
States not receiving required payments need to act as debt collectors.

'Liens on their property': Dem reveals blue states' secret weapon against Trump

President Donald Trump's administration withholding federal money Congress appropriated to blue states can present a unique opportunity for Democratic-controlled state governments, according to two Democratic state legislators from blue states.In a Friday segment on MSNBC's "Deadline: White...

www.rawstory.com

Two other links:
www.democraticunderground.com/10143491102
www.alternet.org/blue-states-trump/

 

[Loren Pechtel]

"Aunt Jemima, what took you so long?"
States not receiving required payments need to act as debt collectors.

'Liens on their property': Dem reveals blue states' secret weapon against Trump

President Donald Trump's administration withholding federal money Congress appropriated to blue states can present a unique opportunity for Democratic-controlled state governments, according to two Democratic state legislators from blue states.In a Friday segment on MSNBC's "Deadline: White...

www.rawstory.com

Two other links:
www.democraticunderground.com/10143491102
www.alternet.org/blue-states-trump/

Liens, so what. They won't be allowed to enforce them.

 

[Swammerdami]

"Aunt Jemima, what took you so long?"
States not receiving required payments need to act as debt collectors.

'Liens on their property': Dem reveals blue states' secret weapon against Trump

President Donald Trump's administration withholding federal money Congress appropriated to blue states can present a unique opportunity for Democratic-controlled state governments, according to two Democratic state legislators from blue states.In a Friday segment on MSNBC's "Deadline: White...

www.rawstory.com

Two other links:
www.democraticunderground.com/10143491102
www.alternet.org/blue-states-trump/

Liens, so what. They won't be allowed to enforce them.

We hear this over and over again: Courts of law will stop improper practices. This hope is contrary to the evidence. Trump and his huge team of fascists are routinely ignoring court orders.

John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it.

I once had the California FTB improperly confiscate money from my bank account without any court order, so I know it's "possible." (They did give the money back.) I understand that confiscating "Trump's money" would be a much bigger deal than confiscating Swammi's; it's a matter of brinksmanship, of racing toward a cliff and seeing who chickens out first, like in the James Dean movie. But instead of falling off a cliff, the rivalry might end with battalions of uniformed police shooting at each other.

And -- you're unfortunately correct -- in such a Game of Chicken Trump might be the "bravest." Heck, I'll not be surprised to see him order the use of nuclear weapons on some senile whim.