Democratic Debate November Edition

[Rhea]

Anyone watching? Since it’s only on cable, I can’t watch. looking for commentary...

 

[ZiprHead]

Should be plenty of places on the intertoobz ro watch it.

 

[Rhea]

Assumes unlimited broadband internet.
Which the invisible hand of the free market has still not seen fit to provide me.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Google "Democratic debates, transcripts". There seem to be a fair amount of various debate transcripts available for downloading.

 

[Derec]

Assumes unlimited broadband internet.
Which the invisible hand of the free market has still not seen fit to provide me.

I was gonna say the same as Zipr, that it will be streamed online at msnbc.com and washingtonpost.com . I don't know what your Internet access is like, but you can try to stream. Or find a Youtube best of the next day so you don't have to watch the full two hours.

As to the actual debate, I have a couple of thoughts.

Location, location, location

DNC/MSNBC/WaPo chose Tyler Perry studios for the venue. A truly baffling choice.
Why the Democrats Will Debate at Atlanta’s Tyler Perry Studios This Month

Early speculation about the location of the November 20 Democratic presidential candidate debate had focused on some site in the northern suburbs of Atlanta, the newly competitive area where the Democrats picked up one U.S. House seat in 2018 and nearly nabbed another. There is, in fact, a spanking new 1,070-seat event venue called City Springs Theatre smack dab in the center of those suburbs (in Sandy Springs, which used to be nicknamed “the Golden Ghetto” and fought annexation by Atlanta for many years) that looked perfect for a debate.

That would indeed, the jab at Sandy Springs at the end notwithstanding, make a lot of sense. As would Infinite Energy Center in Gwinnett County or Georgia Tech or Emory campuses.
What definitely doesn't make any sense is the venue they decided on.

But instead the Washington Post and MSNBC have decided to hold the fifth candidate debate at Tyler Perry Studios,

... best known for the awful Ma Dukes Madea movies.

The symbolism of the choice reflects the two different avenues generally considered open to Democrats for regaining a majority in this rapidly growing and increasingly diverse state: expanding the party’s mostly African-American base in cities like Atlanta or raiding college-educated white voters in the burbs.

It's the Atlanta suburbs that are diverse. The area where the Tyler Perry studio is is very monochromatic, as is Tyler Perry's fan base.

Having said that, the decision to hold the debate in Perry’s huge facility is an appropriate acknowledgment of its importance to both city and state efforts (as bipartisan as anything is in this polarized state) to turn Atlanta and Georgia into major independent entertainment centers.

They could have done that without turning to one of the least racially diverse things in Metro Atlanta.

Tyler Perry isn’t Hollywood.

No. At least Hollywood often has talent.
Why the Democratic debate is headed to Tyler Perry Studios in Atlanta

The debate’s co-hosts, MSNBC and The Washington Post, confirmed the setting of the event Monday, triggering a jubilant reaction from Georgia Democrats. State Sen. Nikema Williams, the chairwoman of the state party, said the pick reflects “the promise of Georgia’s future by elevating economic opportunity and our diverse voices.”

No, it does not "elevate diverse voices". It panders to a single racial demographic while excluding others. That's the antithesis of diversity.
The zip code the studios are located (30310) is 90% black. In contrast, the Gwinnett County zip code where Infinite Energy Center is located (30097) is much more diverse, being 46% white (including white Hispanics). Sandy Springs with their new Performing Arts Center (30328) is ~70% white (incl. Hispanics), which means it still has 3x as many minority racial groups than quite monochromatic 30310.

She aggressively lobbied national party leaders to locate the debate in Atlanta rather than the suburbs, where some officials hoped the showdown could help illuminate the recent Democratic gains in conservative-leaning territory.

Even if the debate was to be held within the City of Atlanta limits, there are far more diverse neighborhoods in the city than the one selected.

“With people of color being the cornerstone of the Democratic Party, Atlanta remains set to provide a large portion of votes for our eventual nominee,” she wrote in one pitch to the Democratic National Committee, a reminder that African Americans made up roughly 60% of primary voters in the 2018 vote.

So basically, fuck everybody who is not black? Very nice message to the voters ...

With Bottoms’ help, the studio beat out competition from City Springs, a mixed-use development that features a 1,070-seat three-level theater. Some of the suburb’s officials vented frustration after they were told the site was no longer in the mix.

Indeed. The decision was racial politics at its worst.

“The fact that this will be hosted on an old Confederate army base, built by slaves, and now owned by an African American man, speaks to all our country has been, all that it is, and all that it can be,” she said.

Yupp. Exclusionary racial politics. Definitely NOT the way to win in 2020.

Candidates
It will be a "do or die" for several candidates. Certainly Cory Booker, Tulsi Gabbard, Andrew Yang and Tom Steyer, who have yet to qualify for the December debate and need something big to do so.
It's also probably "do or die" for Kamala Harris and Amy Klobuchar. Both are already qualified for December, but it may be too little too late to catch fire by then, given that Iowa is only 6 weeks after the LA debate and New Hampshire is a week later. The time is running out.

Buttigieg is going to be in the hot seat, being in the lead in Iowa and now apparently in New Hampshire as well. He is also low with black voters, and DNC/MSNBC/WaPo were apparently adamant to make this a "black" debate. So I think he will be asked about his standings with black voters, the police shooting in South Bend etc.

Biden's performance will be crucial in whether Bloomberg will have an in. His strategy depends on Biden fading.

Debate

I hope the questions will be better than the previous debates, which I found often boring. For example, ask tough questions of Warren about reparations (very unpopular in the general population!). Her answer should be interesting, especially given the venue.

 

[Rhea]

I was gonna say the same as Zipr, that it will be streamed online at msnbc.com and washingtonpost.com . I don't know what your Internet access is like, but you can try to stream. Or find a Youtube best of the next day so you don't have to watch the full two hours.

I know a lot of folks don't get what rural life is like, so it seems hard to imagine that internet is not treated like a utility.

It is not.

The **ONLY** option for internet that is available to me AT ALL is satellite or dial-up. Period.
Satellite is not "high speed," though it is better than dial-up.
Satellite provides 15GB per month, split between 4 people. That mean no video. At all.
After we use us our 15GB, we are throttled to dial up speed (100kbps) until the next billing cycle.
Unless I buy more at $10/GB. That means no video. At all.

I can't make internet appear here. This is not a "choice" that I make. The free market has determined that I do not need high speed internet. There is some a couple of miles away, the quote I was given to get it here was, "we can bring it to your house for $18,000 - our your can try to get your neighbors to sell land and find buyers to build 20 more houses on your street, then it would be worth it to us."

So no. The only way to do this is to drive to the public library 6 miles away and park outside the building at night and use their wifi.
Which I've done. And which my kids do all the time (except for that time the rabid conservatives managed to get the public library shut down for a couple of years before we flaming liberals grabbed money from their wallets to get it open again). But which I was not feeling like doing right now as I recover from surgery.


Anyway - that was just to try to explain what seems like a mysterious lack of internet.
19,000,000 Americans are in the same boat with me.

 

[Rhea]

As to the actual debate, I have a couple of thoughts.

Location, location, location



So basically, fuck everybody who is not black? Very nice message to the voters ...

With Bottoms’ help, the studio beat out competition from City Springs, a mixed-use development that features a 1,070-seat three-level theater. Some of the suburb’s officials vented frustration after they were told the site was no longer in the mix.

Indeed. The decision was racial politics at its worst.

“The fact that this will be hosted on an old Confederate army base, built by slaves, and now owned by an African American man, speaks to all our country has been, all that it is, and all that it can be,” she said.

Yupp. Exclusionary racial politics. Definitely NOT the way to win in 2020.

This is a weird sort of whiney diatribe. I mean, this is debate #5, so if you think about who they have "pandered to" over the course of the season, it is hardly "fuck everyone who is not black," not by a parsec, not by a millimeter. So at ONE EVENT the party pays tribute to it's strongest and most reliable voting block, that gets your panties all in a twist?

Really?
That's some olympic caliber fragility right there.

Candidates
It will be a "do or die" for several candidates. Certainly Cory Booker, Tulsi Gabbard, Andrew Yang and Tom Steyer, who have yet to qualify for the December debate and need something big to do so.

I agree. I don't see Booker doing anything really zany to make a splash, though he might. The other three, I anticipate they will practically show up in drag to be noticed.

It's also probably "do or die" for Kamala Harris and Amy Klobuchar. Both are already qualified for December, but it may be too little too late to catch fire by then, given that Iowa is only 6 weeks after the LA debate and New Hampshire is a week later. The time is running out.

Yes, I see them as needing to maintain here, though not as frantically as those above, because once those above drop out, there are 4-5% to split that might come this group's way. Or at least they undoubtedly hope that.

Buttigieg is going to be in the hot seat, being in the lead in Iowa and now apparently in New Hampshire as well. He is also low with black voters, and DNC/MSNBC/WaPo were apparently adamant to make this a "black" debate. So I think he will be asked about his standings with black voters, the police shooting in South Bend etc.

Yes, all true. This will be interesting to see what he does. He's smart and savvy enough to be very aware of all this - so how will he handle it? With humble sensitivity that builds a bridge, or through entitled talk that blows them up?

Biden's performance will be crucial in whether Bloomberg will have an in. His strategy depends on Biden fading.

But Biden doesn't really have any other personas. So how he's feeling and looking (health) at the time will show up big, and how the others handle him will make a difference.

Debate

I hope the questions will be better than the previous debates, which I found often boring. For example, ask tough questions of Warren about reparations (very unpopular in the general population!). Her answer should be interesting, especially given the venue.

Yeah, I always hope for good questions. Until we have fewer people on stage, we might not get them, though.

 

[southernhybrid]

I've tried to watch some of the debates but they are awful, imo. I always fall asleep in less than an hour. To be honest, I don't know anyone who has watched any of these debates. I consider them worthless. Maybe if it was down to two or three candidates, they might be better, but I really don't think people win elections based on their debate performance.

 

[Elixir]

I've tried to watch some of the debates but they are awful, imo. I always fall asleep in less than an hour. To be honest, I don't know anyone who has watched any of these debates. I consider them worthless. Maybe if it was down to two or three candidates, they might be better, but I really don't think people win elections based on their debate performance.

Debate prep has ruined them, for all practical and entertainment purposes. I'd rather watch talking heads' commentary than the debates themselves. My wife likes to critique clothing and hair, and I find some of her insights hilarious. Other than that, the debates are like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.

 

[ZiprHead]

Assumes unlimited broadband internet.
Which the invisible hand of the free market has still not seen fit to provide me.

Ah, your right. Sorry.

 

[Jarhyn]

I was gonna say the same as Zipr, that it will be streamed online at msnbc.com and washingtonpost.com . I don't know what your Internet access is like, but you can try to stream. Or find a Youtube best of the next day so you don't have to watch the full two hours.

I know a lot of folks don't get what rural life is like, so it seems hard to imagine that internet is not treated like a utility.

It is not.

The **ONLY** option for internet that is available to me AT ALL is satellite or dial-up. Period.
Satellite is not "high speed," though it is better than dial-up.
Satellite provides 15GB per month, split between 4 people. That mean no video. At all.
After we use us our 15GB, we are throttled to dial up speed (100kbps) until the next billing cycle.
Unless I buy more at $10/GB. That means no video. At all.

I can't make internet appear here. This is not a "choice" that I make. The free market has determined that I do not need high speed internet. There is some a couple of miles away, the quote I was given to get it here was, "we can bring it to your house for $18,000 - our your can try to get your neighbors to sell land and find buyers to build 20 more houses on your street, then it would be worth it to us."

So no. The only way to do this is to drive to the public library 6 miles away and park outside the building at night and use their wifi.
Which I've done. And which my kids do all the time (except for that time the rabid conservatives managed to get the public library shut down for a couple of years before we flaming liberals grabbed money from their wallets to get it open again). But which I was not feeling like doing right now as I recover from surgery.


Anyway - that was just to try to explain what seems like a mysterious lack of internet.
19,000,000 Americans are in the same boat with me.

So, I assume you have already been subjected to my opinions ad nauseum as to nationalization and creation of municipal broadband: that you have a right to high speed communications infrastructure in a society so heavily reliant upon high speed communications.

That said, let's be honest here, the vast majority of that 19m people who are too "rural" to stream Dem debates are too busy watching Faux Noise and otherwise sticking their fingers in their ears while screaming "IM NOT LISTENING!"

 

[Valjean]

Anyone watching? Since it’s only on cable, I can’t watch. looking for commentary...

You're lucky. I have only broadcast TV, and it seems like most the channels I usually watch are broadcasting the interrogations, as are all three of my usual radio stations.

 

[Rhea]

Anyone watching? Since it’s only on cable, I can’t watch. looking for commentary...

You're lucky. I have only broadcast TV, and it seems like most the channels I usually watch are broadcasting the interrogations, as are all three of my usual radio stations.

I think we are in the same boat. I also have only broadcast TV.
Since this is on cable, it’s not available to me.
Since I don’t have broadband internet, it’s not available that way either.
Since a hill sits between me and a cell tower, I don’t have cell service, either.

Hence my interest in live-bloggers.


Jarhyn, yup, you are preaching to the choir. I’ve been arguing that since you’ve been in short pants! I am right there with ya. Absolutely should be a public utility. (Including net neutrality)

 

[ZiprHead]

Looks like Slate does live blogging of the debate.

 

[Jarhyn]

Anyone watching? Since it’s only on cable, I can’t watch. looking for commentary...

You're lucky. I have only broadcast TV, and it seems like most the channels I usually watch are broadcasting the interrogations, as are all three of my usual radio stations.

I think we are in the same boat. I also have only broadcast TV.
Since this is on cable, it’s not available to me.
Since I don’t have broadband internet, it’s not available that way either.
Since a hill sits between me and a cell tower, I don’t have cell service, either.

Hence my interest in live-bloggers.


Jarhyn, yup, you are preaching to the choir. I’ve been arguing that since you’ve been in short pants! I am right there with ya. Absolutely should be a public utility. (Including net neutrality)

Joke's on you, then. I still wear short pants.

 

[Rhea]

Looks like Slate does live blogging of the debate.

Thanks. I’l try them. I also watch TalkingPointsMemo page because they don’t overdo video ads, but someties they aren’t fast enough to please me.

Joke's on you, then. I still wear short pants.

Touche’ !!!

 

[ZiprHead]

Rhea, my brother used Hughesnet satellite for several years. It was always crappy service. I was at his place with my AT&T cell phone and got good signal, which is unusual for him and the service he uses. He got an AT&T wifi hotspot and it works great for him and a good bit cheaper than Hughesnet.

 

[Rhea]

Rhea, my brother used Hughesnet satellite for several years. It was always crappy service. I was at his place with my AT&T cell phone and got good signal, which is unusual for him and the service he uses. He got an AT&T wifi hotspot and it works great for him and a good bit cheaper than Hughesnet.

We have a 35-foot mast with a cell antenna on top that is hard-wired to a repeater in the house (not a wife-fi booster, since internet is bad, but an actual cell signal repeater). That gives us about one-bar, which is enough to get texts in one room in the house, but not enough for an actual phone call or any web use.

To get more than that we need to run a cable up the hill about 1/4 mile to a purpose-built tower, the cost of which is more than we want. We’ve thought about putting a repeater on one of the utility poles 3 or 4 from the house, and running coax to the house, but have not gone that route yet.

 

[Elixir]

I was gonna say the same as Zipr, that it will be streamed online at msnbc.com and washingtonpost.com . I don't know what your Internet access is like, but you can try to stream. Or find a Youtube best of the next day so you don't have to watch the full two hours.

I know a lot of folks don't get what rural life is like, so it seems hard to imagine that internet is not treated like a utility.

It is not.

The **ONLY** option for internet that is available to me AT ALL is satellite or dial-up. Period.
Satellite is not "high speed," though it is better than dial-up.
Satellite provides 15GB per month, split between 4 people. That mean no video. At all.
After we use us our 15GB, we are throttled to dial up speed (100kbps) until the next billing cycle.
Unless I buy more at $10/GB. That means no video. At all.

I can't make internet appear here. This is not a "choice" that I make. The free market has determined that I do not need high speed internet. There is some a couple of miles away, the quote I was given to get it here was, "we can bring it to your house for $18,000 - our your can try to get your neighbors to sell land and find buyers to build 20 more houses on your street, then it would be worth it to us."

So no. The only way to do this is to drive to the public library 6 miles away and park outside the building at night and use their wifi.
Which I've done. And which my kids do all the time (except for that time the rabid conservatives managed to get the public library shut down for a couple of years before we flaming liberals grabbed money from their wallets to get it open again). But which I was not feeling like doing right now as I recover from surgery.


Anyway - that was just to try to explain what seems like a mysterious lack of internet.
19,000,000 Americans are in the same boat with me.

So, I assume you have already been subjected to my opinions ad nauseum as to nationalization and creation of municipal broadband: that you have a right to high speed communications infrastructure in a society so heavily reliant upon high speed communications.

That said, let's be honest here, the vast majority of that 19m people who are too "rural" to stream Dem debates are too busy watching Faux Noise and otherwise sticking their fingers in their ears while screaming "IM NOT LISTENING!"

Don't know how vast, or even if it is a majority. Internet sucks around here.
This WAS a totally conservative area some 20-odd years ago, when mining and ranching were the primary industries. Now it's tourism, high-tech work-at-home jobs and homebuilding for the rich (plus a few "affordable housing" projects so hotel and construction workers have somewhere to live). There's still a major FOX Noise component, but the county went for Clinton in '16.

 

[ZiprHead]

Rhea, my brother used Hughesnet satellite for several years. It was always crappy service. I was at his place with my AT&T cell phone and got good signal, which is unusual for him and the service he uses. He got an AT&T wifi hotspot and it works great for him and a good bit cheaper than Hughesnet.

We have a 35-foot mast with a cell antenna on top that is hard-wired to a repeater in the house (not a wife-fi booster, since internet is bad, but an actual cell signal repeater). That gives us about one-bar, which is enough to get texts in one room in the house, but not enough for an actual phone call or any web use.

To get more than that we need to run a cable up the hill about 1/4 mile to a purpose-built tower, the cost of which is more than we want. We’ve thought about putting a repeater on one of the utility poles 3 or 4 from the house, and running coax to the house, but have not gone that route yet.

Ah, so you're even deeper than my brother, and he's pretty deep.