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Deregulation and greed leads to massive pollution dump in river

 
 
 
Juma said:
Loren Pechtel said:
You ---->
<--- The point

The point of his post s that the EPA just did what is normally blamed on capitalist greed. In other words, greed must not be the automatic reason to blame.
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Why would EPA need to do anything with the mine at all? Where is the guys that created the mine?
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The mine was abandoned decades ago - the company that mined it no longer exists - likely went bankrupt. The EPA was examining and testing the contents of the mine according to reports.
 
laughing dog said:
An outcome might be the result of a
1) direct knowledgeable choice,
2) unforseen circumstance,
3) mistake,
4) preventable accident, or
5) an unpreventable accident.

This seems to be the case of #3
According to the EPA, the spill occurred when one of its teams was using heavy equipment to enter the Gold King Mine, a suspended mine near Durango. Instead of entering the mine and beginning the process of pumping and treating the contaminated water inside as planned, the team accidentally caused it to flow into the nearby Animas River.
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Which is different than #1. In addition, they were cleaning up the pollution caused by private activity.

So why is OP conflating an accident with deliberative choices, etc...?
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Whenever there is an environmental incident involving a private company, there is a kneejerk reaction to blame 1 an/or 4 as the reason and always a call for more govenment regulation and oversight regardless of the level that already exists.
 
Axulus said:
laughing dog said:
An outcome might be the result of a
1) direct knowledgeable choice,
2) unforseen circumstance,
3) mistake,
4) preventable accident, or
5) an unpreventable accident.

This seems to be the case of #3


Which is different than #1. In addition, they were cleaning up the pollution caused by private activity.

So why is OP conflating an accident with deliberative choices, etc...?
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Whenever there is an environmental incident involving a private company, there is a kneejerk reaction to blame 1 an/or 4 as the reason and always a call for more govenment regulation and oversight regardless of the level that already exists.
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You are right. More government regulation would not have prevented the Exxon Valdiz Spill, Love Canal,  Bhopal disaster,  Phillips Disaster, the Deepwater Horizon explosion just to name a few.

But more rigorous government oversight and inspection could have lessened many of these if not preventing a few of them. But hey, we all know that this is not the purpose of this thread. The purpose of this thread was to an already weak government regulatory agency look bad. Yeah the EPA fucked up here, but let's not forget that they were cleaning up a mess left over from a former industrial organization.

We have many, many more needing attention: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Superfund_sites_in_the_United_States
The EPA are the ones cleaning up these sites.

The Republicans want to get rid of the EPA and OSHA because they are a "job killer". The Republicans (and many Democrats) are being funded by large polluters and regulatory violators who write these laws.
 
Wait, how come the free market didn't prevent this buildup of toxins in first place?
 
Axulus said:
Juma said:
Why would EPA need to do anything with the mine at all? Where is the guys that created the mine?
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The mine was abandoned decades ago - the company that mined it no longer exists - likely went bankrupt. The EPA was examining and testing the contents of the mine according to reports.
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So you think it fine that mining corporations can just walk a way from a mess that they created?And,the EPA(i may be wrong)had a contractor do the work that fucked up.
Bankrupt.Just walk a way.
Profit be fore humane.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
What a crock of bullshit!


A mistake was made and this happened accidentally. The OP wants to try and imply that stupid regulations or who the fuck knows what led to this mistake. The rivers aren't burning any more. There must be some level of progress thanks to the EPA.
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You ---->
<--- The point

The point of his post s that the EPA just did what is normally blamed on capitalist greed. In other words, greed must not be the automatic reason to blame.
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So when these spills happen with private companies and they get fined later because of inadequacies of their systems / protections, that is 'just as bad'? Smells like Moore-Coulter to me.
 
Axulus said:
If only we could take out profit and greed and add more regulation and government inspection, this never would've happened.
Oh, shit! Nevermind
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Hard rock mining has a long history of making a huge mess, moving on, and sticking the public with the bill for cleanup.

This case is no different and is the reason that regulation is needed to stop the mess from being made in the first place.

Tell us again, when was this mine closed and what regulation was it that caused the company to leave such a mess behind?
 
While at first look it might seem appropriate to blame this on the shoddy regulations of the first Grover Cleveland administration, I really don't see how he could have anticipated a bunch of fuckwits from the EPA digging around a retaining wall with a backhoe.
 
dismal said:
While at first look it might seem appropriate to blame this on the shoddy regulations of the first Grover Cleveland administration, I really don't see how he could have anticipated a bunch of fuckwits from the EPA digging around a retaining wall with a backhoe.
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Blaine would not have done any better and Harrison was the cause of the Panic of '93.
 
Well. it couldn't have been after since it wasn't one before.

BTW, my other question probably got lost in the flood of mustard water:

Why didn't the free market prevent the buildup of all this toxic waste in the first place?
 
ksen said:
Well. it couldn't have been after since it wasn't one before.

BTW, my other question probably got lost in the flood of mustard water:

Why didn't the free market prevent the buildup of all this toxic waste in the first place?
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Why do you think it didn't?
 
dismal said:
ksen said:
It wasn't a retaining wall before they dug into it.
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Certainly wasn't after.

Sploosh. Yellow river. China.
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Can someone explain to me what actually happened?
CNN said:
According to the EPA, the spill occurred when one of its teams was using heavy equipment to enter the Gold King Mine, a suspended mine near Durango. Instead of entering the mine and beginning the process of pumping and treating the contaminated water inside as planned, the team accidentally caused it to flow into the nearby Animas River.
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USA Today said:
EPA on-scene coordinator Hayes Griswold explained to San Juan County, Colo., officials that an EPA team working at the mine on Wednesday underestimated how much pressure was hidden behind the debris that plugged the mine's entrance.

He said the team was not attempting to dislodge the plug, but was instead attempting to stick a pipe into the top of the mine.


The pipe would allow the team to safely pump liquid out of the mine for treatment, Griswold said.

"We were very careful," he said, adding that he has 28 years of mining experience.

However, the team removed too much material from the mine's roof, which caused the rupture, Griswold said.
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vox said:
The EPA began cleanup work on the Red and Bonita mine in late June 2015. On August 4, workers were clearing out the partially collapsed Gold King mine when they breached a debris dam that had been holding back toxic water, filled with contaminants. That water flowed out, and the Animas River was suddenly flooded yet again by a gusher of heavy metals.
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