Deregulation and greed leads to massive pollution dump in river

[dismal]

I hope the guilty party has good pollution insurance.

The EPA is part of the US Government. They got plenty of money.

 

[ksen]

Um, because the toxic waste buildup existed?

Meh, you want to play with yourself I got better things to do.

I do like playing with myself but I can understand why you want to ignore this line of discussion.

So, how are the cowboys going to be this year?

 

[braces_for_impact]

Why would EPA need to do anything with the mine at all? Where is the guys that created the mine?

The mine was abandoned decades ago - the company that mined it no longer exists - likely went bankrupt. The EPA was examining and testing the contents of the mine according to reports.

The mine is owned by San Juan Corp.

It appears to be doing just fine. As is typical, the mess was left to be someone else's problem after the profits were made. You were right in that often these companies do go bankrupt, to evade responsibility.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

The mine was abandoned decades ago - the company that mined it no longer exists - likely went bankrupt. The EPA was examining and testing the contents of the mine according to reports.

The mine is owned by San Juan Corp.

It appears to be doing just fine. As is typical, the mess was left to be someone else's problem after the profits were made. You were right in that often these companies do go bankrupt, to evade responsibility.

Ahh the old drain-the-resources, sell-the-capital-to-a-new-business-the-owners-set-up, declare-bankruptcy, and profit! shell game.

 

[Playball40]

What a crock of bullshit!


A mistake was made and this happened accidentally. The OP wants to try and imply that stupid regulations or who the fuck knows what led to this mistake. The rivers aren't burning any more. There must be some level of progress thanks to the EPA.

You ---->
<--- The point

The point of his post s that the EPA just did what is normally blamed on capitalist greed. In other words, greed must not be the automatic reason to blame.

You don't see a difference between an "accident" that happens because the owner doesn't want to spend money to make it safe and an "accident" that occurs due to someone having to clean up someone else's mistake? Really?

 

[Axulus]

The mine was abandoned decades ago - the company that mined it no longer exists - likely went bankrupt. The EPA was examining and testing the contents of the mine according to reports.

So you think it fine that mining corporations can just walk a way from a mess that they created?And,the EPA(i may be wrong)had a contractor do the work that fucked up.
Bankrupt.Just walk a way.
Profit be fore humane.

To quote Metaphor, I have not said it and I don't believe it

 

[Axulus]

The mine was abandoned decades ago - the company that mined it no longer exists - likely went bankrupt. The EPA was examining and testing the contents of the mine according to reports.

The mine is owned by San Juan Corp.

It appears to be doing just fine. As is typical, the mess was left to be someone else's problem after the profits were made. You were right in that often these companies do go bankrupt, to evade responsibility.

Looking into it further, the mine has been abandoned since 1923. You may be unaware of it, but there is a concept in American law that says you can't make something illegal and then have it retroactively apply to something that happened decades ago.

 

[dismal]

The mine is owned by San Juan Corp.

It appears to be doing just fine. As is typical, the mess was left to be someone else's problem after the profits were made. You were right in that often these companies do go bankrupt, to evade responsibility.

Looking into it further, the mine has been abandoned since 1923. You may be unaware of it, but there is a concept in American law that says you can't make something illegal and then have it retroactively apply to something that happened decades ago.

It sounds to me as if the EPA were regulatin' the hell out of 'em too.

Generally for known sites there is some sort of environmental plan in place, and I have seen no evidence they were not in compliance with whatever plan had been agreed.

 

[KeepTalking]

The mine is owned by San Juan Corp.

It appears to be doing just fine. As is typical, the mess was left to be someone else's problem after the profits were made. You were right in that often these companies do go bankrupt, to evade responsibility.

Looking into it further, the mine has been abandoned since 1923. You may be unaware of it, but there is a concept in American law that says you can't make something illegal and then have it retroactively apply to something that happened decades ago.

So, what you are saying, in contrast to the sentiment expressed sarcastically in the OP, is that it was a lack of regulation (in 1923) that actually led to the current situation.

 

[dismal]

Looking into it further, the mine has been abandoned since 1923. You may be unaware of it, but there is a concept in American law that says you can't make something illegal and then have it retroactively apply to something that happened decades ago.

So, what you are saying, in contrast to the sentiment expressed sarcastically in the OP, is that it was a lack of regulation (in 1923) that actually led to the current situation.

If there was a lack of regulation what was the EPA (aka the regulators) doing out there?

 

[braces_for_impact]

The mine is owned by San Juan Corp.

It appears to be doing just fine. As is typical, the mess was left to be someone else's problem after the profits were made. You were right in that often these companies do go bankrupt, to evade responsibility.

Looking into it further, the mine has been abandoned since 1923. You may be unaware of it, but there is a concept in American law that says you can't make something illegal and then have it retroactively apply to something that happened decades ago.

I said absolutely nothing about legality. I was responding to your incorrect assertion that

...the company that mined it no longer exists - likely went bankrupt.

 

[arkirk]

An outcome might be the result of a
1) direct knowledgeable choice,
2) unforseen circumstance,
3) mistake,
4) preventable accident, or
5) an unpreventable accident.

This seems to be the case of #3


Which is different than #1. In addition, they were cleaning up the pollution caused by private activity.

So why is OP conflating an accident with deliberative choices, etc...?

Whenever there is an environmental incident involving a private company, there is a kneejerk reaction to blame 1 an/or 4 as the reason and always a call for more govenment regulation and oversight regardless of the level that already exists.

These "accidents" are not the result of government regulations that have teeth. These accidents are the result of the sloppy uncaring regulation that just seeks language to protect the government from responsibility. The fines incurred in these disasters are always miniscule and never sufficient to actually remedy even a majority of the conditions. Our government needs to stop being so narcissistic and self aggrandizing and admit it has licensed ongoing conditions that become disasters and rework its regulatory powers to adequately cope with these problems in the permitting process and also at the point of permit failure. Fines for events like Deepwater Horizon should be so steep that they represent existential threat to the continued existence of the company. They should be fined till either all the oil is cleaned up or they run out of money...and go completely out of business. I am sick and tired of hearing corporate stooges badmouth all efforts to stop this type of incident from happening. Government reassurance that these things won't happen obviously do not work.

In the case of this mine. The bandits are gone and they have packed up their profits and moved on, leaving their mine waste to be a disaster whenever it gets loose. It is obvious the EPA did not intend to dump all this shit in the river. It is their job and the permitting authorities to prevent things like this in the first place. This is the result of corruption in the permitting agencies.

 

[KeepTalking]

So, what you are saying, in contrast to the sentiment expressed sarcastically in the OP, is that it was a lack of regulation (in 1923) that actually led to the current situation.

If there was a lack of regulation what was the EPA (aka the regulators) doing out there?

In 1923? Nothing, given that the EPA did not exist in 1923.

 

[dismal]

If there was a lack of regulation what was the EPA (aka the regulators) doing out there?

In 1923? Nothing, given that the EPA did not exist in 1923.

Everyone knows the EPA did not exist until the great saint of environmentalism Richard Nixon created it.

But that's not the point.

The site was being regulated now, wasn't it? The EPA was out there regulating the shit out of it when they released all that yellow water into the river.

 

[atrib]

In 1923? Nothing, given that the EPA did not exist in 1923.

Everyone knows the EPA did not exist until the great saint of environmentalism Richard Nixon created it.

But that's not the point.

The site was being regulated now, wasn't it? The EPA was out there regulating the shit out of it when they released all that yellow water into the river.

It was an accident. The EPA was trying to fix a problem created many decades ago when businesses were allowed to pollute public land, water and air with no regulations to stop them. The EPA did not create the problem. The mine and the pollutants are the product of the free market economics of the time in which the mine was operational, with little or no regulation or oversight, which caused harm to the public many, many decades after the mine operators had made their fortunes and moved on to exploit other resources.

 

[ksen]

He already knows this.

This isn't about trying to have a give and take discussion with each side maybe learning something or even wanting to learn to something.

 

[Axulus]

Everyone knows the EPA did not exist until the great saint of environmentalism Richard Nixon created it.

But that's not the point.

The site was being regulated now, wasn't it? The EPA was out there regulating the shit out of it when they released all that yellow water into the river.

It was an accident. The EPA was trying to fix a problem created many decades ago when businesses were allowed to pollute public land, water and air with no regulations to stop them. The EPA did not create the problem. The mine and the pollutants are the product of the free market economics of the time in which the mine was operational, with little or no regulation or oversight, which caused harm to the public many, many decades after the mine operators had made their fortunes and moved on to exploit other resources.

Can you detail out how the yellow water contained in the mine was hurting the public?

I for one want to thank the miners of the 19th century that contributed to the US being the industrial power it became.

 

[ksen]

Can you detail out how the yellow water contained in the mine was hurting the public?

Sure, the contaniments in the yellow water was slowly leaking out into the Animas River basin causing elevated levels of pollutants.

http://reg.gsapubs.org/content/17/47.short

 

[Nice Squirrel]

It was an accident. The EPA was trying to fix a problem created many decades ago when businesses were allowed to pollute public land, water and air with no regulations to stop them. The EPA did not create the problem. The mine and the pollutants are the product of the free market economics of the time in which the mine was operational, with little or no regulation or oversight, which caused harm to the public many, many decades after the mine operators had made their fortunes and moved on to exploit other resources.

Can you detail out how the yellow water contained in the mine was hurting the public?

I for one want to thank the miners of the 19th century that contributed to the US being the industrial power it became.

Okay, I'll bite. What exactly is your agenda here?

 

[laughing dog]

An outcome might be the result of a
1) direct knowledgeable choice,
2) unforseen circumstance,
3) mistake,
4) preventable accident, or
5) an unpreventable accident.

This seems to be the case of #3


Which is different than #1. In addition, they were cleaning up the pollution caused by private activity.

So why is OP conflating an accident with deliberative choices, etc...?

Whenever there is an environmental incident involving a private company, there is a kneejerk reaction to blame 1 an/or 4 as the reason and always a call for more govenment regulation and oversight regardless of the level that already exists.

You do realize that the initial situation was caused by a private firm which left polluted water to seep into the surrounding region.