Did United Airlines have any other choice than to eject that passenger?

[jab]

Uh, he was not the only person on the plane.

 

[laughing dog]

Is there any evidence that this person was stalling or that he was on the phone for a long period of time? If so, please produce it so that your questions seem relevant. If not, please stop stop this babbling.
Please stop this babbling.

It was a Sunday afternoon at 5pm. Most people don't have access to a lawyer during the day let alone on a Sunday evening. Customer service agents just roll their eyes at someone saying they are going to call their lawyer and sue. It's an idle threat and they should go about their business without waiting. That lawyer would need hours to find out if the Dr had a legal standing to stay.

He was flirting with three major rules.

1) Trespassing
2) Failure to obey a flight crews orders
3) Resisting arrest

yes you can gamble and get lucky.

Please stop babbling.

 

[untermensche]

OK.

The corporation is allowed to say: You, Mr. paying customer are scum and are trespassing.

Sure they can say that.

But that's it. They are done. They have exhausted their rights.

Yes, and businesses have that right. And he has the right to say United sucks. There were damages if United falled to get him to his destination, 4 times the face value of his ticket.

They did more than talk.

 

[laughing dog]

Saying, "good little authoritarian" hit me as an unjustified attack against white people.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[coloradoatheist]

It was a Sunday afternoon at 5pm. Most people don't have access to a lawyer during the day let alone on a Sunday evening. Customer service agents just roll their eyes at someone saying they are going to call their lawyer and sue. It's an idle threat and they should go about their business without waiting. That lawyer would need hours to find out if the Dr had a legal standing to stay.

He was flirting with three major rules.

1) Trespassing
2) Failure to obey a flight crews orders
3) Resisting arrest

yes you can gamble and get lucky.

Please stop babbling.

I'm not. If he had not hit the armrest across from the seat things play out a lot different and he possibly could be looking at charges. It was a big gamble for him.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Mockery, mostly. How did you not catch that?

And why did you bring race into it?

Saying, "good little authoritarian" hit me as an unjustified attack against white people.

I have absolutely no idea how you made that logical jump. It was (as far as i can see) a more personal attack on your kowtowing to the inherent might of an authority figure.

Even still, I wrote, "people," but changed it

You'd be amazed at how much people don't care for what you chose NOT to post.

in light of 2 things, 1) felt I might be unjustifiably including them as if prominently authoritarian and 2) to give the person the opportunity to explain. I didn't do it without reason, and I avoided explanation to diminish deniability.

Diminish deniability... ? Whatever that means.

And no one's suggesting you did it without reason, people just kept asking you FOR the reason.

Mockery? I think it ran a little deeper than that. And no, "little" wasn't mockery, although the entire statement can be viewed as much.

Yes, the phrase 'good little (FITB)' is mockery. Little is a part of the mockery. How 'deep' it was meant, i couldn't say. Was it mere mockery or biting mockery or whatever, but it's not like the phrase hasn't been used a lot as a prefix to all sorts of mockery.

Who's a good little trooper?
Who's been a good little soldier?
I guess we're all good little communists, then!
You're a good little team player, Bannon!

 

[coloradoatheist]

Yes, and businesses have that right. And he has the right to say United sucks. There were damages if United falled to get him to his destination, 4 times the face value of his ticket.

They did more than talk.

Because he did not leave when they asked to vacate property he was not welcome on anymore. To get him to leave is was bad luck of hitting the armrest on the other side when they pulled to get him to leave the set.

 

[zorq]

That was his seat? If that were the case, I need to leave this thread head hung down in shame.

He paid for it didn't he? Just like you paid for your home? Payment means something doesn't it? Usually is means that the payer acquires a good or service from the reciever. It was HIS seat as per the contract they signed.

 

[jab]

The problem was the hand wasn't so invisible this time.

 

[untermensche]

They did more than talk.

Because he did not leave when they asked to vacate property he was not welcome on anymore. To get him to leave is was bad luck of hitting the armrest on the other side when they pulled to get him to leave the set.

They have no right to pull anyone.

They can say things.

But not assault people.

 

[jab]

"WE have completed boarding"--is not the same as "you an individual customer, have completed boarding."

 

[jab]

thanks Artemus
"From the letter that United CEO Oscar Munzo sent to employees the day after the incident (emphasis mine):
Quote Originally Posted by Oscar Munzo
'On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight."
The claim that no one is boarded until the door is closed or the plane backs out of the gate is total bullshit fabricated by apologists trying to defend the reprehensible behavior of United Airlines and the police who dragged the guy out. That has been made abundantly clear by personal-rights law professors, aviation-law attorneys, and even the CEO of the company itself. At this point it is just willful ignorance to claim otherwise."

 

[coloradoatheist]

Because he did not leave when they asked to vacate property he was not welcome on anymore. To get him to leave is was bad luck of hitting the armrest on the other side when they pulled to get him to leave the set.

They have no right to pull anyone.

They can say things.

But not assault people.

But that is a separate law and line over that isn't as clear, because it is more based on common law.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That's not a rebuttal at all.

The crew doesn't get there, the plane doesn't fly. The plane isn't in the right location so even if crew gets there later it still can't make it's flights until it manages to reposition to the right airport.

No, you have provided no evidence that this is even true. That's what people keep telling you.

If THIS crew doesn't get there it might be no big deal because ANOTHER crew might get there in time from another city on another flight or other means of transportation.

People are (repeatedly) asking you to show EVIDENCE that THIS crew is super-duper special and ONLY this crew hitching a ride on THIS particular flight can satisfy the needs of the later flight.

If there are other options for the airline in supplying crew to the later flight then there isn't even a superficial venere of "need" for this crew to get on this flight. That's the rebuttal.

It doesn't matter if they are unique. What counts is if there was another crew somewhere that could be flown in without bumping passengers.

Looking at the Louisville airport for United flights in the relevant time period but admittedly the wrong day (I don't know how to find the flights on that day):

Chicago
Houston--way too early.
Denver--way too early.
Newark--way too early.
Dulles--way too early.

I don't see that they had a choice.

 

[coloradoatheist]

thanks Artemus
"From the letter that United CEO Oscar Munzo sent to employees the day after the incident (emphasis mine):
Quote Originally Posted by Oscar Munzo
'On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight."
The claim that no one is boarded until the door is closed or the plane backs out of the gate is total bullshit fabricated by apologists trying to defend the reprehensible behavior of United Airlines and the police who dragged the guy out. That has been made abundantly clear by personal-rights law professors, aviation-law attorneys, and even the CEO of the company itself. At this point it is just willful ignorance to claim otherwise."

And there are other lawyers that have said different. But as I said, United wins very little fighting this in court. Winning thousands from the Dr wouldn't do them any good. However it has been several weeks and they haven't settled yet.

 

[coloradoatheist]

No, you have provided no evidence that this is even true. That's what people keep telling you.

If THIS crew doesn't get there it might be no big deal because ANOTHER crew might get there in time from another city on another flight or other means of transportation.

People are (repeatedly) asking you to show EVIDENCE that THIS crew is super-duper special and ONLY this crew hitching a ride on THIS particular flight can satisfy the needs of the later flight.

If there are other options for the airline in supplying crew to the later flight then there isn't even a superficial venere of "need" for this crew to get on this flight. That's the rebuttal.

It doesn't matter if they are unique. What counts is if there was another crew somewhere that could be flown in without bumping passengers.

Looking at the Louisville airport for United flights in the relevant time period but admittedly the wrong day (I don't know how to find the flights on that day):

Chicago
Houston--way too early.
Denver--way too early.
Newark--way too early.
Dulles--way too early.

I don't see that they had a choice.

The details we really need will probably never been known. But as I said, an airline isn't going to change it's policies that they and all the other airlines have been following for years based on the very unlikely probably of someone feeling too entitled.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That's not a rebuttal at all.

The crew doesn't get there, the plane doesn't fly.

At this point I have to believe that you're being deliberately intellectually dishonest.

There's no "the crew doesn't get there" at all. Chicago is a big city with two major airports and several flights to Louisville on a daily basis. There was no chance that the crew simply wouldn't be able to make it to Louisville. If all the planes were suddenly grounded they could still rent a car and get to Louisville the same night.

1) Airlines use their own flights to move crew about, they don't stick them on other people's flights.

2) Chicago is big. Louisville isn't. There are 7 flights/day. At the time in question there were three left, the actual flight, a code-share on American an hour later and the second United flight (which we know was at least scheduled to be full as they couldn't rebook him on it) 3 hours later, most likely too late.

Nor can I find any other United flight arriving in Louisville in the time period in question.

 

[untermensche]

They have no right to pull anyone.

They can say things.

But not assault people.

But that is a separate law and line over that isn't as clear, because it is more based on common law.

No.

This is about what free humans should allow.

And they will never allow corporations to assault people.

Those that do are not free humans but something less.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Are you serious. Rights have a LOT to do with it. Suppose I walk into your home while you are relaxing on the couch and insist that you leave because I need your home right now. If you don't leave you should know that I have friends in the police force who will be removing you from your home. If you are upset about that you can leave as instructed and address the issue later.

Tenants have special protection against being thrown out by landlords. Thus it isn't a comparable situation at all.

 

[coloradoatheist]

At this point I have to believe that you're being deliberately intellectually dishonest.

There's no "the crew doesn't get there" at all. Chicago is a big city with two major airports and several flights to Louisville on a daily basis. There was no chance that the crew simply wouldn't be able to make it to Louisville. If all the planes were suddenly grounded they could still rent a car and get to Louisville the same night.

1) Airlines use their own flights to move crew about, they don't stick them on other people's flights.

2) Chicago is big. Louisville isn't. There are 7 flights/day. At the time in question there were three left, the actual flight, a code-share on American an hour later and the second United flight (which we know was at least scheduled to be full as they couldn't rebook him on it) 3 hours later, most likely too late.

Nor can I find any other United flight arriving in Louisville in the time period in question.

You are wrong on number 1. They prefer to use their own flights because then you are relying on a competitor to bump someone for you. But there is also another issue. If an airline has two options get their crew someone needed several hours ahead of time or another option that arrives very shortly before they could they aren't going to choose the second option and run the risk of them being late just because they might have an irrate customer.