Does Gravity Disprove God?

[Keith&Co.]

Or more importantly, does anyone in their right mind want to suggest that gravity disproves God?

Seriously.

It's not an intelligent force. Or at least we can't detect any intelligence on the part of gravity. I mean, imagine if gravity acted stronger on people committing crimes. Cops can walk up and arrest people who are barely able to stand while they try to carry their swag to the getaway car. Imagine if rapists fell and broke their spines while their intended victims floated to the ceiling, out of reach, out of danger.
But, no, it's an impersonal effect. Mass affects other objects with mass, in ways that are predictable once we understand the effect. We can build machines that use it or strive against it, and measure the way it varies from point to point on the Earth's surface.

The fact that it exists does not argue against any god in any way.

It's possible that it's just a trait held by mass in this universe as a result of impersonal forces interacting, it's equally possible that the creator(s) of the universe set it as part of his(her/their) divine plan. Either way, it's in place and there to be observed, measured, used by anyone, regardless of their outlook on the existence and nature of the divine.

Similarly, no one accuses people who research gravity with trying to disprove their god. No one insists that gravitational experts are turning their back on Vishnu or Ptah. No one who compiles the gravity variation map for missile launch programming is charged with 'hating Wotan' and none of the guys on our team that measured the exact vectors for gravity at the missile submarine base in Kings Bay, Refit Wharf Two, ever stopped to ask if what we were doing was blasphemy. Amaterasu is not NEEDED to explain why the apple fell on Newton's noggin, but neither does the apple's fall prove that Corn Woman isn't real.

Similarly, evolutionary science cannot be used to demonstrate if evolution is part of a god's (the gods') plan or not.
Which is weird, isn't it?

If the entire purpose of evolutionary theory is to create a lie in order to avoid/escape/defeat/blaspheme against/hide from a lawgiver who watches our every move and judges our eternal destination, why didn't we invent a fictional science that could establish that there are no gods?

Can anyone tell me why the vast international conspiracy to defeat the gods never once thought to just come out and prove that there are no gods?
Maybe invent a divine tricorder? A godcorder?
Should be easy enough, if the evil atheist conspiracy has that much control over science, just make one and tell everyone science did it, and it proves the gods are not detected, detectable, possible...
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ETA: Well, shit.

 

[bilby]

Or more importantly, does anyone in their right mind want to suggest that gravity disproves God?

Seriously.

It's not an intelligent force. Or at least we can't detect any intelligence on the part of gravity. I mean, imagine if gravity acted stronger on people committing crimes. Cops can walk up and arrest people who are barely able to stand while they try to carry their swag to the getaway car. Imagine if rapists fell and broke their spines while their intended victims floated to the ceiling, out of reach, out of danger.
But, no, it's an impersonal effect. Mass affects other objects with mass, in ways that are predictable once we understand the effect. We can build machines that use it or strive against it, and measure the way it varies from point to point on the Earth's surface.

The fact that it exists does not argue against any god in any way.

It's possible that it's just a trait held by mass in this universe as a result of impersonal forces interacting, it's equally possible that the creator(s) of the universe set it as part of his(her/their) divine plan. Either way, it's in place and there to be observed, measured, used by anyone, regardless of their outlook on the existence and nature of the divine.

Similarly, no one accuses people who research gravity with trying to disprove their god. No one insists that gravitational experts are turning their back on Vishnu or Ptah. No one who compiles the gravity variation map for missile launch programming is charged with 'hating Wotan' and none of the guys on our team that measured the exact vectors for gravity at the missile submarine base in Kings Bay, Refit Wharf Two, ever stopped to ask if what we were doing was blasphemy. Amaterasu is not NEEDED to explain why the apple fell on Newton's noggin, but neither does the apple's fall prove that Corn Woman isn't real.

Similarly, evolutionary science cannot be used to demonstrate if evolution is part of a god's (the gods') plan or not.
Which is weird, isn't it?

If the entire purpose of evolutionary theory is to create a lie in order to avoid/escape/defeat/blaspheme against/hide from a lawgiver who watches our every move and judges our eternal destination, why didn't we invent a fictional science that could establish that there are no gods?

Can anyone tell me why the vast international conspiracy to defeat the gods never once thought to just come out and prove that there are no gods?
Maybe invent a divine tricorder? A godcorder?
Should be easy enough, if the evil atheist conspiracy has that much control over science, just make one and tell everyone science did it, and it proves the gods are not detected, detectable, possible...
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^ Gravity did that to you.

 

[Keith&Co.]

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^ Gravity did that to you.

Well, at least i won't need an internet doll to show you 'where gravity hurt me.'
It's right there.

 

[skepticalbip]

Can anyone tell me why the vast international conspiracy to defeat the gods never once thought to just come out and prove that there are no gods?
Maybe invent a divine tricorder? A godcorder?
Should be easy enough, if the evil atheist conspiracy has that much control over science, just make one and tell everyone science did it, and it proves the gods are not detected, detectable, possible....

I built a god alarm to alert me when he was watching. So far it hasn't gone off so he hasn't seen what I've been doing.

 

[DBT]

Presumably gravity being the hand of the god of Spinoza... and Einstein?

 

[ryan]

There is no thinking, hoping, wishing, debating, your way out of the possibility that God exists. Unless you are as wise as the god you are arguing against, how could you ever do it?

Sorry, but there is no disproving god without complete knowledge of everything.

 

[Keith&Co.]

No, no, no.
I'm not TRYING to disprove any of the gods.

My point is, we have this science that the faithful keep claiming is a total lie. And the only purpose of this lie is to pretend there are no gods.

And it must be a very huge conspiracy to make sure the whole lie holds together, you know? Not just biology, but everyone who digs in the ground has to be in on it so no one reports an inconvenient fossil. And everyone who works in most of the medical fields, and certainly everyone working on vaccines. Plus breeders can't be allowed to discover an upper limit to how far they can shift a species, be it cat, dog, cattle, fish or attack pigs. And anyone digging into the ice has to make sure their reports conform...

Anyway, with all this huge conspiracy going on, wouldn't it have made much more sense if we'd just invent a way to actually say, 'Science SAYS there is no god.'??

Build something like Egon Spengler's PKE meter and prove that we can't detect anything divine.
Or, hell, build a Ghostbuster Trap and trap ghosts, then build an atomic trap to trap god and store him indefinitely...

Or a gun! If everyone in the Evolution conspiracy were to simply acknowledge that 'science' has shown that gods die when you expose them to, i dunno, agitated krypton molecules or electrified hydrogen hydroxide, and confirm that such a weapon was made and god was destroyed... That'd be a lot simpler. Less paperwork.


Same result.

 

[ryan]

No, no, no.
I'm not TRYING to disprove any of the gods.

My point is, we have this science that the faithful keep claiming is a total lie. And the only purpose of this lie is to pretend there are no gods.

And it must be a very huge conspiracy to make sure the whole lie holds together, you know? Not just biology, but everyone who digs in the ground has to be in on it so no one reports an inconvenient fossil. And everyone who works in most of the medical fields, and certainly everyone working on vaccines. Plus breeders can't be allowed to discover an upper limit to how far they can shift a species, be it cat, dog, cattle, fish or attack pigs. And anyone digging into the ice has to make sure their reports conform...

Anyway, with all this huge conspiracy going on, wouldn't it have made much more sense if we'd just invent a way to actually say, 'Science SAYS there is no god.'??

Build something like Egon Spengler's PKE meter and prove that we can't detect anything divine.
Or, hell, build a Ghostbuster Trap and trap ghosts, then build an atomic trap to trap god and store him indefinitely...

Or a gun! If everyone in the Evolution conspiracy were to simply acknowledge that 'science' has shown that gods die when you expose them to, i dunno, agitated krypton molecules or electrified hydrogen hydroxide, and confirm that such a weapon was made and god was destroyed... That'd be a lot simpler. Less paperwork.


Same result.

I can't tell if you are being serious or not.

If you are being serious, then you would be hurting the integrity of science. And there are many scientists who believe in god; they will find philosophical and scientific problems with any magic versus material argument you can think of.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I can't tell if you are being serious or not.

The people claiming that evolution is a lie and a conspiracy are perfectly serious. It's just hard to take them seriously.
Still, it's a serious question. Why go to such elaborate lengths if all we want to do is create a world without religion?
Why did we invent a science while insisting that science does not actually have an opinion on whether or not the supernatural is real due to the limitations? Why didn't we just invent a science lie that said what we wanted to really say?

If you are being serious, then you would be hurting the integrity of science.

You're not riding the trolley.
According to so very, very many of the faithful, we've already abandoned science's integrity by propping up the big ol' 'common ancestry' lie.
So that's not a reasonable objection to making a science that accomplishes our alleged goals.

And there are many scientists who believe in god; they will find philosophical and scientific problems with any magic versus material argument you can think of.

But again, we've apparently seduced these so-called believers into supporting the anti-god, anti-bible, satan-breathed lie that is evolutionary theory, and all the sciences that support or at least do not contradict the theory and all the implications of that theory.

Surely, if we're all that good at forming a conspiracy to spread a lie, we can deal with the 45% of scientists who are willing to whore their souls and the truth for the lie.

 

[ryan]

The people claiming that evolution is a lie and a conspiracy are perfectly serious. It's just hard to take them seriously.
Still, it's a serious question. Why go to such elaborate lengths if all we want to do is create a world without religion?
Why did we invent a science while insisting that science does not actually have an opinion on whether or not the supernatural is real due to the limitations? Why didn't we just invent a science lie that said what we wanted to really say?

If you are being serious, then you would be hurting the integrity of science.

You're not riding the trolley.
According to so very, very many of the faithful, we've already abandoned science's integrity by propping up the big ol' 'common ancestry' lie.
So that's not a reasonable objection to making a science that accomplishes our alleged goals.

And there are many scientists who believe in god; they will find philosophical and scientific problems with any magic versus material argument you can think of.

But again, we've apparently seduced these so-called believers into supporting the anti-god, anti-bible, satan-breathed lie that is evolutionary theory, and all the sciences that support or at least do not contradict the theory and all the implications of that theory.

Surely, if we're all that good at forming a conspiracy to spread a lie, we can deal with the 45% of scientists who are willing to whore their souls and the truth for the lie.

Oh s***, I misunderstood you.

They would probably think it's some kind of passive tactic by scientists to not use too strong of evidence against their religions.

 

[Juma]

there are many scientists who believe in god; they will find philosophical and scientific problems with any magic versus material argument you can think of.

They would find deep problems with themselves if they really believe in the abrahamitic god, but then all theistic scientist uses double standards.

 

[DBT]

There is no thinking, hoping, wishing, debating, your way out of the possibility that God exists. Unless you are as wise as the god you are arguing against, how could you ever do it?

Sorry, but there is no disproving god without complete knowledge of everything.

As there is no evidence to support a justified belief in the existence of a God (whatever that may be), it is not justified to form a conviction in the existence of a God (whatever that may be)....but if evidence should come to light, that is a different story.

 

[Juma]

There is no thinking, hoping, wishing, debating, your way out of the possibility that God exists. Unless you are as wise as the god you are arguing against, how could you ever do it?

Sorry, but there is no disproving god without complete knowledge of everything.

You cannot disprove Snaknik either. Does that mean that Snaknik is a useful hypotesis?

 

[skepticalbip]

There is no thinking, hoping, wishing, debating, your way out of the possibility that God exists. Unless you are as wise as the god you are arguing against, how could you ever do it?

Sorry, but there is no disproving god without complete knowledge of everything.

Why would anyone waste time attempting to disprove god? Silly ideas don't need to be disproved. If a gnorphlix exterminator claims there is gnorphlix under my house then it is their onus to prove to me that there is. I'm not about to pay that gnorphlix exterminator to get rid of it for me unless he can demonstrate that there is one to get rid of.

 

[another1]

I don't disagree that attempting to disprove God and gravity is a waste of time. Like, you know when you're in pottery class and you think wow this must be how gravity feels when it swirls plasmas and whatnot into planets and stars. Then you're like yeah if I let the wheel spin the clay all over the room as if I'm not here, the clay will still be scooped up and reused later. My sitting there moving hands and getting them dirty doesn't change the inevitable fate of the clay which will always turn into something indefinitely.

The existence of gravity is harder to prove than God. Actually you know who created God, and in that sense, God is more real having been created by billions of creatures you understand to be like yourself. Gravity is a fixed and eternal thing, and you know that when you flush, the waste will go down. When you pray, the thing you're begging for may not go down. Still, God is proven, if not only in psychic realms where there is more real than there is not.

If my life is such that there is a God or two moving and reshaping the things in my world, I am just enduring gravity. Physically I'm at the will of those forces. Resisting or spinning into a particular shape to be burned into an object - same thing. The Gods are so totally real, that they don't even have to be real. That is really real. That is massive automated pottery factories churning out ash trays for eternity, real.

I wouldn't put any money on gravity being real. It would be a great thing to worship if it could be fully understood, wouldn't it? Not worshipped in a scientific ritual but in an offering money to-pledging money and faith to. Oh wait... that is what science does. Gravity works in horrifyingly huge and unforgiving ways that we couldn't dig, but at least we could finally accept it.

 

[Keith&Co.]

You cannot disprove Snaknik either. Does that mean that Snaknik is a useful hypotesis?

Well, he's not useful as a hypotenuse. He keeps wiggling.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I don't disagree that attempting to disprove God and gravity is a waste of time.

Disagree with who? Who's trying to disprove gravity?

The existence of gravity is harder to prove than God.

Well, no, gravity has actual effects. We can measure them and predict them.
God doesn't seem to do shit.

Gravity is a fixed and eternal thing,

Fixed? How do you mean?
Gravity's pull at the lip of the Grand Canyon is different than gravity's pull at the bottom. We can even measure differences in the exact pull and direction of gravity at two different wharves in the same harbor.

I wouldn't put any money on gravity being real.

but it's fixed and eternal, if not worth betting on it being real?

Are you high?

It would be a great thing to worship if it could be fully understood, wouldn't it?

No, it would be a great thing to worship if it could be manipulated. If we could bribe it to release our space vehicles and satellites, or to pull harder on our enemies or their weapons.
Lacking that, lacking any reason to think it could help us, worship is contra-indicated. Kinda like God.

Not worshipped in a scientific ritual but in an offering money to-pledging money and faith to. Oh wait... that is what science does.

No, it really isn't.
But do you feel better for getting that out of your diaper? Feel effective, now?

 

[another1]

LOL bribing gravity. Actually, yes I wake 'n baked today so I could talk about God with people like you, who may actually believe in God more than I. It takes an atheist. You know the speech.

Gravity is fixed in our minds. I posted on this thread because you're assuming that gravity and God are so different and they are not. You think that gravity disproves God? Gravity is more mystical than a God. They are both inescapable.. God and Gravity are. That you'll agree on.

I captured some gravity in a thimble when I was a child. I knew it wasn't real but it was right there weighing down my hand. How could the thimble have had weight in my hand if some gravity wasn't inside it? It was a paradox. Can you explain it?

Some roundabout things I say are being taken too seriously, but I appreciate the response. See, some people get too technical for me to keep up. Gravity is not real, Keith. God however is real in the way I just explained and in many other ways. We established that God is real years ago right here on one of these pages. Even if God is not real, it does not really matter. Kinda like gravity, right? Things move how they move and then we make words to describe the movement. Then the words are what cause the moving blah blah and so on. You definitely agree.

To me, this thread may as well be titled "high fructose corn syrup disproves the existence of corn". I don't get where you're going with this but I'll see you when you get here because I am not overcomplicating my reality with magical nonsense. Simple things are the hardest things to understand if you aren't willing to be simple.

Since everything ultimately has to be about God sabotaging our lives ... let us say that gravity was started by the wind that God's robe made when he turned his back on the universe. Yeah, that was the first gravitational event, and ever since, matter has been spinning and exploding because of God's rejection. Tiny creatures inside matter are desperately trying to return to God, and their squirming makes gravity seem to happen. THAT is the answer! My diaper weighs like four pounds and I'm walkin like a cowboy. The diaper thing was insulting btw but it made me laugh.

 

[bilby]

There is no thinking, hoping, wishing, debating, your way out of the possibility that God exists. Unless you are as wise as the god you are arguing against, how could you ever do it?

Sorry, but there is no disproving god without complete knowledge of everything.

That's horseshit.

Any adequately defined God, like any hypothetical entity, can be falsified. A God that cannot be disproven is indestinguishable from a God that doesn't exist.

Phlogiston doesn't exist. We know this for a fact, despite not having searched the entire universe for phlogiston.

Only by refusing to define what God actually is or does can you make that claim; and that makes God as useful and real as 'thingy'.

Thank thingy for that!

 

[Keith&Co.]

LOL bribing gravity. Actually, yes I wake 'n baked today so I could talk about God with people like you, who may actually believe in God more than I. It takes an atheist. You know the speech.

Yes, been there, dismissed that.

Gravity is fixed in our minds.

Not in mine. About twice a month i have to teach someone about how gravity varies over the flight of the missile and why that has to be corrected for.

I posted on this thread because you're assuming that gravity and God are so different and they are not.

NO.
NO, no, no, no, no.

In this thread, the difference is in how the Faithful react to scientific research in some sciences, like how gravity works, and do not assume that everyone involved in the research has a vested interest in promoting the lie
AS OPPOSED TO
how the same people view research in evolutionary theory. Because it simply must be an attack on their god.

You think that gravity disproves God?

Sober up and read it again.

Gravity is more mystical than a God. They are both inescapable.. God and Gravity are. That you'll agree on.

No.
I've seen Saturday Night Live, it is easy to escape gravity.

And sometimes i manage to go for entire days without thinking about gods. Like i can go for days without thinking of sports. Or whether or not Kim Kardashian likes eggplant.

How could the thimble have had weight in my hand if some gravity wasn't inside it? It was a paradox. Can you explain it?

Yes. As a child you didn't understand how gravity worked.

Some roundabout things I say are being taken too seriously, but I appreciate the response.

The lighting is too bad to photograph my Legos so i've got time for even sillier shit, sure.

Gravity is not real, Keith.

Not according to my job for the last 35 years...

We established that God is real years ago right here on one of these pages.

No, IIRC you insisted, but were not compelling.
Just silly.

Then the words are what cause the moving blah blah and so on. You definitely agree.

Keep thinking that if it makes you happy.

To me, this thread may as well be titled "high fructose corn syrup disproves the existence of corn".

Then maybe it's a good thing it's not your thread, since you so clearly misunderstand it. Did you read the OP, or is this performance art limited to a reading of the title?

I don't get where you're going with this

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo shit.