Donald Trump -- like spy John Walker?

[lpetrich]

In the early decades of the Soviet Union, some people spied for it because they believed in its system. Spies like Klaus Fuchs, for instance. Wikipedia has  Category:People convicted of spying for the Soviet Union, and I could review their motivations.

But some more recent spies did it because they needed the money. Spies like  John Anthony Walker:

While stationed on the nuclear-powered Fleet Ballistic Missile (FBM) submarine USS Andrew Jackson in Charleston, South Carolina, Walker opened a bar, which failed to turn a profit and immediately plunged him into debt.[1]

Walker began spying for the Soviets in late 1967,[8][9] when, distraught over his financial difficulties, he walked into the old Soviet embassy in Washington, D.C., sold a top secret document (a radio cipher card) for several thousand dollars, and negotiated an ongoing salary of $500 to $1,000 a week.[1]

He was eventually caught and found guilty, and he died in prison.


Looking at Donald Trump, in the 1990's, his business failures made it hard for him to get loans to start new businesses. But he then got bailed out by rich people from Russia and other ex-Soviet nations (How Russian Money Helped Save Trump’s Business – Foreign Policy).

That raises a very serious question. Did that bailout include some quid pro quo? Given the numerous contacts with Russian officials by his associates, one has to suspect that (The Moscow Project), etc.

If so, then he's a lot like John Walker. It may be too much to expect DT to end up like JW, dying behind bars, but it's a nice thought.

 

[Keith&Co.]

If so, then he's a lot like John Walker.

There was at least one point that Walker regretted his actions enough that he almost turned himself in. Actually got as far as making the call, to the CIA IIRC, though he chickened out and hung up before giving his name. Regret not very Trump-like.

OTOH: Walker also got family members involved in the spying. His son was on an Aircraft Carrier when Walker was finally arrested. They found Top Secret documents in his rack when they came for him. He wasn't involved long enough to see any of the big payouts he was promised.

Not sure of The Trumps have similarly been seduced into being assets, or if they were just brought up to think that this is how things are done....

 

[Loren Pechtel]

While I do think he might have been suborned by the Russians at some point in the past I do not think he's a spy now--he's too mentally out of it to keep his cover.

 

[Keith&Co.]

While I do think he might have been suborned by the Russians at some point in the past I do not think he's a spy now--he's too mentally out of it to keep his cover.

No, but still an asset.
Laundering money for them, getting them a Wall contract...

 

[SLD]

Donald Trump is indeed a Soviet agent. He was likely compromised on a visit to the Soviet Union in the 80’s. Most likely via Russian honey pots. He can’t resist fucking some hot looking babe and he thinks they all want him. It was too easy. After his trip to Moscow, he started ensuring that they got good real estate deals both in Manhattan and in Moscow. When the Soviet Union fell, he probably felt he was free. But only until Putin found him useful again. Once he decided to run for President, they figured they could help their agent. Indeed they did. Now he’s paying off handsomely. He’s trying to get us out of NATO, cozying up to North Korea, pulling out of Syria, abrogating the IBM treaty, just about doing everything they have ever wanted. It would be surprising if he weren’t an agent.

SLD

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

No, but still an assehat.

FIFY.

I like to go with the term "useful asshat."

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Have you ever considered a career in writing espionage fiction? You could be the new Tom Clancy.

 

[barbos]

It's clear that Trump have been sending russians McDonald's secrets.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I really wish i still had access to nuclear targeting. Used to. Just want to see where we're at.

Every new president sends a memo to the Joint Chiefs with his priorities for nuclear war, should one become necessary. That memo goes to the war planners who build up the scenarios the Pres can choose from. Basically, they split between they shoot first or we do, and between if it's coming as a surprise or something that builds up over time with a deteriorating diplomatic environment.

This takes about a year to shake down from joint chiefs to the guys in the silos.

I was just barely aboard my first sub when Reagan's change deployed. Major overhaul to the targeting. Nothing quite so major when Bush took over.

I really cannot imagine what Trump's priority list would have looked like.

My money would mainly be on that he never knew he needed one, and got bored in the middle of the first briefing. Never got to the example memos of previous administrations, or the template back page. We may still be patrolling on Obama's memo, waiting for some update. What's critical is if they referred to the status as 'standing orders' or 'Obama's plan.'

Quite a bit behind that, he is an agent, Putin was gleefully ready for this, and wrote the memo that shifts targeting to prioritize obsolete assets. Or like that cartoon, an admiral looking at a file asks a general, "Why do we have two missiles aimed at Moscow, Idaho?x

Just a little behind that one, he is an asset, but Putin didn't want to tip his hand there, left Trump to hash it out himself. Which means the pattern footprints cross the map to spell out "Trump" in glassy craters....

"I bomb the best craters! Bigly, glossy craters, like diamonds!'

 

[barbos]

I really wish i still had access to nuclear targeting. Used to. Just want to see where we're at.

Every new president sends a memo to the Joint Chiefs with his priorities for nuclear war, should one become necessary. That memo goes to the war planners who build up the scenarios the Pres can choose from. Basically, they split between they shoot first or we do, and between if it's coming as a surprise or something that builds up over time with a deteriorating diplomatic environment.

This takes about a year to shake down from joint chiefs to the guys in the silos.

I was just barely aboard my first sub when Reagan's change deployed. Major overhaul to the targeting. Nothing quite so major when Bush took over.

I really cannot imagine what Trump's priority list would have looked like.

My money would mainly be on that he never knew he needed one, and got bored in the middle of the first briefing. Never got to the example memos of previous administrations, or the template back page. We may still be patrolling on Obama's memo, waiting for some update. What's critical is if they referred to the status as 'standing orders' or 'Obama's plan.'

Quite a bit behind that, he is an agent, Putin was gleefully ready for this, and wrote the memo that shifts targeting to prioritize obsolete assets. Or like that cartoon, an admiral looking at a file asks a general, "Why do we have two missiles aimed at Moscow, Idaho?x

Just a little behind that one, he is an asset, but Putin didn't want to tip his hand there, left Trump to hash it out himself. Which means the pattern footprints cross the map to spell out "Trump" in glassy craters....

"I bomb the best craters! Bigly, glossy craters, like diamonds!'

Wow, I really thought you were less insane that that.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

It's clear that Trump have been sending russians McDonald's secrets.

Don't you think they already know the secret sauce is russian dressing?

 

[Keith&Co.]

It's clear that Trump have been sending russians McDonald's secrets.

Don't you think they already know the secret sauce is russian dressing?

But that's the problem.
in the US, if they say, 'Put Russian Dressing on the burger,' they know what is going to happen.

In Russia, all dressing is Russian dressing! There's just no predicting what the next sandwich is going to taste like!

 

[ZiprHead]

I would like, just once, to have a reporter ask Bonespurs if he's ever heard of the Rosenbergs and what happened to them.

 

[barbos]

I would like, just once, to have a reporter ask Bonespurs if he's ever heard of the Rosenberg and what happened to them.

They were the ones who quite likely and unintentionally saved this planet from nuclear war.

 

[lpetrich]

I would like, just once, to have a reporter ask Bonespurs if he's ever heard of the Rosenberg and what happened to them.

They were the ones who quite likely and unintentionally saved this planet from nuclear war.

How so?

 

[barbos]

I would like, just once, to have a reporter ask Bonespurs if he's ever heard of the Rosenberg and what happened to them.

They were the ones who quite likely and unintentionally saved this planet from nuclear war.

How so?

It's like the movie "The Hunt for Red October". Of course it's unlikely their rationale for spying was that and their contribution was rather insignificant, but we do know that US generals were planning to strike USSR for real, next week real.

 

[Elixir]

we do know that US generals were planning to strike USSR for real

BWAHAHAHA! Pootey tells you the most ridiculous shit, and YOU BELIEVE HIM!

 

[Keith&Co.]

we do know that US generals were planning to strike USSR for real

BWAHAHAHA! Pootey tells you the most ridiculous shit, and YOU BELIEVE HIM!

No, no. It's accurate. Mostly.

Sort of. Not the generals, really, but their staff. They have the JOB of being ready to strike Russia. And China. And Cuba. And all of our enemies, possible enemies, or even places that belong to our allies, but might be invaded by our enemies. There's a constant effort to find all of an opponent's assets and plans, and generate war plans to match our current resources to those assets. What to hit with the first strike, what can wait for follow-on tasking, all that stuff.

We do it, our allies do it, our opponents do it. Everyone does it. Human intel, satellite intel, message intercepts, whatever we can get our hands on.

So, yeah, there was a plan. There's always a plan. A bunch of plans. Round the clock. China has plans, Russia has plans, the US has plans. That's been a daily reality for the entire life of everyone on this forum. Plans to hit the enemy today, tomorrow, and next week when two subs go into the yards, and next month when that silo comes back on line.

No, he's only wrong in pretending that this was somehow significantly altered by anyone's actions...

 

[barbos]

we do know that US generals were planning to strike USSR for real

BWAHAHAHA! Pootey tells you the most ridiculous shit, and YOU BELIEVE HIM!

Not Pootey, US declassified documents from that era,

 

[barbos]

we do know that US generals were planning to strike USSR for real

BWAHAHAHA! Pootey tells you the most ridiculous shit, and YOU BELIEVE HIM!

No, no. It's accurate. Mostly.

Sort of. Not the generals, really, but their staff. They have the JOB of being ready to strike Russia. And China. And Cuba. And all of our enemies, possible enemies, or even places that belong to our allies, but might be invaded by our enemies. There's a constant effort to find all of an opponent's assets and plans, and generate war plans to match our current resources to those assets. What to hit with the first strike, what can wait for follow-on tasking, all that stuff.

We do it, our allies do it, our opponents do it. Everyone does it. Human intel, satellite intel, message intercepts, whatever we can get our hands on.

So, yeah, there was a plan. There's always a plan. A bunch of plans. Round the clock. China has plans, Russia has plans, the US has plans. That's been a daily reality for the entire life of everyone on this forum. Plans to hit the enemy today, tomorrow, and next week when two subs go into the yards, and next month when that silo comes back on line.

No, he's only wrong in pretending that this was somehow significantly altered by anyone's actions...

These were plans which had dates on it. The only reason they did not strike USSR was because they realized that they need to strike more targets and did not have enough nukes, once they got enough nukes they got more targets as well. So strike kept get delayed. In the end POTUS asked for the estimates for casualties and then said "I am not going to kill 70 (I think that was the number) millions Russians". By that time USSR had nukes of their own.

And no, USSR had never had plans for preemptive strike.