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Dubai Skyscraper Inferno

I read the fire started after some curtains caught fire.

Early death toll is like 60.

Most people got out apparently.

CORRECTION: 60 casualities, but only one death reported so far.
 
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We had a building (only 10 stories) in Melb go up and looked suspiciously similar i.e. on outside of building. Turns out the cladding was flammable (despite the specs calling for non-flammable.) The company brought the cladding cheap in China. Other buildings they hace constructed are being inspected.

Wouldn't be surprised if same outcome.
 
I'm honestly happy for them. The UAE is a very special kind of evil, and the people there are all quite complicit in the fact that their society is and continues to be built on the backs of slaves and that nobody there seems keen on changing that any time soon. Not to mention that whole 'killing gays' thing and the whole 'women are second class citizens' thing.

But we all know that wether the building takes out a chunk of Dubai or not, the damage will be repaired by that same slave labor again. It isn't a tragedy for the UAE, it is a tragedy for their slaves.

I'm not sure this really means anything, and I'd be surprised if it turns out to be anything more than coincidence combined with my own barely-suppressed personal prejudices...

But I have become acquainted with a very large number of people who are employed by Emirates Airlines. I've known airline pilots in the past, and I've grown (I thought) accustomed to some of the quirks that come with the job. But the pilots of Emirates Airlines seem to have the same three things in common:

1) They are unusually wealthy

2) They are, to a man, the kind of person who would rather double park and block traffic for ten minutes than actually pull in to a real parking space half a block up the street.

3) They are the parents of some of the most emotionally unstable, poorly behaved, impulse-driven children I have ever encountered.

Either there's a lot I don't know about EA pilots and how they're recruited (or their work hours, or lifestyle, or whatever) or this is just the new thing for rich middle aged professionals now... but again, it seems to be unique to Emirates pilots; the guys I know who fly for Delta are all basically introverted nerds.
 
I'm honestly happy for them. The UAE is a very special kind of evil, and the people there are all quite complicit in the fact that their society is and continues to be built on the backs of slaves and that nobody there seems keen on changing that any time soon. Not to mention that whole 'killing gays' thing and the whole 'women are second class citizens' thing.

But we all know that wether the building takes out a chunk of Dubai or not, the damage will be repaired by that same slave labor again. It isn't a tragedy for the UAE, it is a tragedy for their slaves.

Hi Jarhyn,

There is not more slave labour in the UAE as in any western countries (including the US). You find condoned slavery in The Sudan, Mauretania and some pockets in the world but not in the UAE.

Neither is there anything like killing gays. Actually gay life is pretty sparkling in Dubai. Maybe not in Um Al Quwain though.

As for women being second class citizen : yes Sharia law does discriminate women but that’s in use in UK as well I believe ?
Which doesnt make the discrimination acceptable. Only points to double standards.

Oh and TSwizzle, there is no religious police or mutawas in any of the emirates of the UAE.

Happy new year to all.
Salaam
 
I'm just going to leave this here:
[YOUTUBE]gMh-vlQwrmU[/YOUTUBE]
 
I'm honestly happy for them. The UAE is a very special kind of evil, and the people there are all quite complicit in the fact that their society is and continues to be built on the backs of slaves and that nobody there seems keen on changing that any time soon. Not to mention that whole 'killing gays' thing and the whole 'women are second class citizens' thing.

But we all know that wether the building takes out a chunk of Dubai or not, the damage will be repaired by that same slave labor again. It isn't a tragedy for the UAE, it is a tragedy for their slaves.

This is an abhorrent thing to say and rather shocking from someone who I have generally thought of as one of the more level-headed posters here.

What were you thinking when you posted this? Thankfully, no one died, but regardless, why on Earth would you ever celebrate a disaster like this? Putting aside the fact that this occurred in a hotel, in an emirate that is overwhelmingly populated by non-native expatriates (and thus, any victims are unlikely to be Emiratis), what in the hell are you talking about? So, because the UAE's government is immoral, anyone from there who benefits in any way from its immoral practices therefore deserves to die in a fire? What in the literal fuck?

China's egregious human rights record dwarfs the UAE's on the basis of sheer scale - namely, the countless millions, mostly internal migrants, toiling away in sweatshops where conditions are so bad that safety nets are installed around the dormitories to prevent people from killing themselves. The country has built its economy almost entirely on their backs; so do all wealthy Chinese who have benefited therefore deserve to die a fiery death? How about all the Western shareholders who benefit as well? Hell, just about all of us are reaping massive benefits from the suffering of others, and aren't lifting a god damn finger to change it. So we're all guilty?

Or does this only apply when we're talking about people with brown skin and rags on their heads?
 
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Hello Deepak

Thats beneath any serious journalism.
Rather trying to find exceptions and presenting them as common practice. Some boring movie based on facts doesnt sell right? So lets do the fox approach and bomb people stupid.

Anybody can do the same in any country of the world. What about making such a movie about mexican illegal immigrants in the US ?

Please review definition of slaves.

And if you like to discuss real slavery : welcome, its still all over the world.

Cheers
 
Hello Deepak

Thats beneath any serious journalism.
Rather trying to find exceptions and presenting them as common practice. Some boring movie based on facts doesnt sell right? So lets do the fox approach and bomb people stupid.

Anybody can do the same in any country of the world. What about making such a movie about mexican illegal immigrants in the US ?

Please review definition of slaves.

And if you like to discuss real slavery : welcome, its still all over the world.

Cheers

Taking workers' passports and not paying them is slavery. Your contention that things are worse elsewhere is tantamount to defining the drugging of a woman and sex with her unconscious body as not rape because other women are raped and beaten while conscious.

Moreover, even local papers report on this behaviour - though names are removed to protect the rich. And the government running media free zones which are subject to governmental control of exported stories is highly suspect.

More unserious journalism:
http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=5250718
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3694894.stm
https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2012/united-arab-emirates
 
Hello Deepak

Thats beneath any serious journalism.
Rather trying to find exceptions and presenting them as common practice. Some boring movie based on facts doesnt sell right? So lets do the fox approach and bomb people stupid.

Anybody can do the same in any country of the world. What about making such a movie about mexican illegal immigrants in the US ?

Please review definition of slaves.

And if you like to discuss real slavery : welcome, its still all over the world.

Cheers

Taking workers' passports and not paying them is slavery. Your contention that things are worse elsewhere is tantamount to defining the drugging of a woman and sex with her unconscious body as not rape because other women are raped and beaten while conscious.

Moreover, even local papers report on this behaviour - though names are removed to protect the rich. And the government running media free zones which are subject to governmental control of exported stories is highly suspect.

More unserious journalism:
http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=5250718
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3694894.stm
https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2012/united-arab-emirates

I have known about these conditions in Dubai for several years. The funny thing I notice is how modern technology can exist side by side with slavery. Value systems like you see in Dubai are in effect pretty much any place petroleum is the basis of wealth and many places where it isn't. You can have an electric dish washer and not too far away someone is taking a leak in the street. Dubai has a good supply of slaves from places like Bangladesh where workers often die in building collapses and fires. The idea is that these people are enured to poverty and don't need to be paid...somebody is thinking that. I notice Cycad seems to think such things are myth. He is living a protected life.:rolleyesa:
 
Hi Deepak

More unserious journalism:
http://www.npr.org/templates/transcr...toryId=5250718
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3694894.stm
https://freedomhouse.org/report/free...-arab-emirates

Two articles a decade old ? (2006-2004)
And one from 2012 about censored internet and press.

Thats your argument to claim slavery exist in Dubai ? (or UAE)

For your info : its illegal to withhold passports of workers.

Does it happen ? Certainly. Is it an abuse ? Yes. Is it a proof of slavery in the UAE ? Certainly not.

Cheers
 
I have known about these conditions in Dubai for several years. The funny thing I notice is how modern technology can exist side by side with slavery. Value systems like you see in Dubai are in effect pretty much any place petroleum is the basis of wealth and many places where it isn't. You can have an electric dish washer and not too far away someone is taking a leak in the street. Dubai has a good supply of slaves from places like Bangladesh where workers often die in building collapses and fires. The idea is that these people are enured to poverty and don't need to be paid...somebody is thinking that. I notice Cycad seems to think such things are myth. He is living a protected life.:rolleyesa:

Hello Arkirk

You have no idea how I live but I presume you have supernatural powers or info from NSD :-)

You however, seem to be ill informed.

Saudi has a huge number of Bangladeshis or Bengalis. UAE not.
The main workforce in the UAE is Indian from the state of Kerala. You know, the one with highest literacy, massive reserves of capital and first democratically elected communist government in the world.

And for your info : there is no petrol in Dubai. Can you not accept that Dubai build their wealth on something else than petrol ? It almost sound like jealousy when people pretend that Dubai is build on oil wealth. Locals must be stupid Bedouins right ? Cant possibly have build up their country without massive petro dollars right ?
Cheers


PS apologies for derailing
 
Cycad, I am not sure why you are taking it upon yourself to defend the UAE from criticism, but the evidence is against you; you've been swatting away other sources, so let's have a brief look at what two of the world's leading human rights organizations have to say:

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2015/country-chapters/united-arab-emirates

The United Arab Emirates (UAE) continued in 2014 to arbitrarily detain individuals it perceives as posing a threat to national security, and its security forces continued to face allegations that they torture detainees in pretrial detention. UAE courts invoked repressive laws to prosecute government critics, and a new counterterrorism law poses a further threat to government critics and rights activists. Migrant construction workers on one of the country’s most high-profile projects continued to face serious exploitation, and female domestic workers were still excluded from regulations that apply to workers in other sectors.

Foreigners account for more than 88.5 percent of UAE residents, according to 2011 government statistics, but despite labour reforms, low-paid migrant workers continue to be subjected to abuses that amount to forced labor. Domestic workers are particularly vulnerable to abuse, since they do not enjoy even the minimal protection afforded by UAE labor law. The kafala sponsorship system, which operates in all Gulf Cooperation Council states, ties migrant workers to individual employers who act as their visa sponsors. In practice, the system severely restricts workers’ ability to change employers. The system gives employers inordinate power over workers by entitling them to revoke migrant workers’ sponsorship at will, thereby removing their right to remain in the UAE and making them liable to deportation.

Domestic violence is permitted under UAE law. Article 53 of the UAE's penal code allows the imposition of “chastisement by a husband to his wife and the chastisement of minor children” so long as the assault does not exceed the limits prescribed by Sharia, or Islamic law. Article 56 of the UAE's personal status code obligates women to “obey” their husbands. In 2010, the UAE’s Federal Supreme Court issued a ruling—citing the UAE penal code—that sanctions beating and other forms of punishment or coercion by husbands on their wives, provided they do not leave physical marks.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/united-arab-emirates/report-united-arab-emirates/

Despite protective provisions in the 1980 Labour Law and subsequent decrees, foreign migrant workers were exploited and abused. Many workers, who had generally paid fees to recruiting agents, reported that they were deceived over the terms and conditions of their work. Construction workers often lived in poor and inadequate accommodation, while few held their own passports. Late payment or non-payment of wages was common. The kafala sponsorship system made workers vulnerable to abuse by employers, while those involved in collective action such as strikes or sit-ins were liable to arrest and deportation.

I can't be arsed to dig up specific sources about gay rights, but I hardly need to at this point since we both know what they will say. And while you are correct that Dubai has almost no oil or natural gas, I'm sure you're fully aware that it was built using oil money, and is heavily dependent on funding from other Emirates that do rely on oil, namely Abu Dhabi, which bailed them out several years ago to the tune of about $10 billion.

So the government of the UAE is definitely quite a reprehensible one - while abuses occur in all countries, some governments are more culpable than others. If you wish to challenge that assessment, the evidence is against you there, too: the most recent Freedom House report gives the UAE a score of "not free," equal to Russia, Afghanistan and Iran, and The Economist's Democracy Index gives the UAE a rating of 2.64 out of 10, just below Afghanistan and above Sudan. Though, as I said before, this doesn't give anyone the right to judge someone simply because they're from there, far less wish physical harm upon them.
 
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Hi Deepak

More unserious journalism:
http://www.npr.org/templates/transcr...toryId=5250718
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3694894.stm
https://freedomhouse.org/report/free...-arab-emirates

Two articles a decade old ? (2006-2004)
And one from 2012 about censored internet and press.

Thats your argument to claim slavery exist in Dubai ? (or UAE)

For your info : its illegal to withhold passports of workers.

Does it happen ? Certainly. Is it an abuse ? Yes. Is it a proof of slavery in the UAE ? Certainly not.

Cheers

It's certainly a decades old problem. You'd have us conclude that the articles being old means they don't demonstrate the problem? And the video, a recent video, which corroborates those decades old articles is unserious journalism? Pardon me if I don't take your word over these journalists.

Perhaps if, as noted in the Freedom House NGO's article, the press were not constrained to small media free zones in the opulent parts of the city there would be up-to-date reporting. For your info this situation still exists. Perhaps these media organizations could actually put some pressure on the people who take workers' passports - as the government seems uninterested in actually enforcing the law. Much like the rest of Dubai these worker 'protection laws' are for keeping up appearances. Surprisingly (or not) the laws against the press are enforced with gusto.

Free press could do much to improve Dubai, but Sheikh Mohammed seems more concerned for the image.
 
And for your info : there is no petrol in Dubai. Can you not accept that Dubai build their wealth on something else than petrol ? It almost sound like jealousy when people pretend that Dubai is build on oil wealth. Locals must be stupid Bedouins right ? Cant possibly have build up their country without massive petro dollars right ?
Cheers


PS apologies for derailing

It's still built on oil wealth--it's where the oil wealth comes to play.
 
And for your info : there is no petrol in Dubai. Can you not accept that Dubai build their wealth on something else than petrol ? It almost sound like jealousy when people pretend that Dubai is build on oil wealth. Locals must be stupid Bedouins right ? Cant possibly have build up their country without massive petro dollars right ?
Cheers


PS apologies for derailing

It's still built on oil wealth--it's where the oil wealth comes to play.

Dubai has all the trappings of a giant international tax shelter. As could be expected, when you get together a bunch of money grubbers who just care about their accumulated loot, they can be expected to become extremely lax about things like building standards and labor rights. Just look at the craziness of Dubai. Look at its carbon footprint. Look at who owns it. Look at the worker slums and displaced people there. This Dubai is essentially a loaded gun aimed at its sponsors own heads. It was a place where oil and military industrial money got parked. In that environment you will have buildings built by slaves that may from time to time burn. No surprises there...not really.:thinking:
 
Hi Deepak

More unserious journalism:
http://www.npr.org/templates/transcr...toryId=5250718
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3694894.stm
https://freedomhouse.org/report/free...-arab-emirates

Two articles a decade old ? (2006-2004)
And one from 2012 about censored internet and press.

Thats your argument to claim slavery exist in Dubai ? (or UAE)

For your info : its illegal to withhold passports of workers.

Does it happen ? Certainly. Is it an abuse ? Yes. Is it a proof of slavery in the UAE ? Certainly not.

Cheers

It's certainly a decades old problem. You'd have us conclude that the articles being old means they don't demonstrate the problem? And the video, a recent video, which corroborates those decades old articles is unserious journalism? Pardon me if I don't take your word over these journalists.

Perhaps if, as noted in the Freedom House NGO's article, the press were not constrained to small media free zones in the opulent parts of the city there would be up-to-date reporting. For your info this situation still exists. Perhaps these media organizations could actually put some pressure on the people who take workers' passports - as the government seems uninterested in actually enforcing the law. Much like the rest of Dubai these worker 'protection laws' are for keeping up appearances. Surprisingly (or not) the laws against the press are enforced with gusto.

Free press could do much to improve Dubai, but Sheikh Mohammed seems more concerned for the image.

http://tiglarchives.org/sites/default/files/resources/nimep/v2/INSIGHTS06_DamyanovaSinger.pdf

If you are interested in the financial architecture of Dubai, this little piece ought to help clarify it.:D
 
It's still built on oil wealth--it's where the oil wealth comes to play.

Dubai has all the trappings of a giant international tax shelter. As could be expected, when you get together a bunch of money grubbers who just care about their accumulated loot, they can be expected to become extremely lax about things like building standards and labor rights. Just look at the craziness of Dubai. Look at its carbon footprint. Look at who owns it. Look at the worker slums and displaced people there. This Dubai is essentially a loaded gun aimed at its sponsors own heads. It was a place where oil and military industrial money got parked. In that environment you will have buildings built by slaves that may from time to time burn. No surprises there...not really.:thinking:

I disagree. Tax shelters are occupied by the rich, they'll care about safety.

The problem in Dubai is corruption and the fact that the rich don't want to do any actual work, they hire it done by abused workers who don't care if it's done right.
 
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