E-cigs/”vaping”

[Musing Man]

I was a smoker for well over 30 years and have tried all imaginable means to quit. Including first and second generations of electronic cigarettes, or e-cigs. That is, before they were even trendy. Several days ago I decided to give one another shot and I was amazed - now we're talking!

At pretty much the same time, I started to look for articles centered on the ”vaping” topic - the more scientific, the better, I thought. But, to my amazement, this over 10 year old phenomenon has a slim to none scientific basis. As for the regular press, liberals embrace it while conservatives are reluctant - no surprise there.

I have yet to read a fair and balanced (if possible, scientific) article.

I was unable to find one, maybe some of you fine guys can help.

My ultimate goal is to quit one bad habit, not to replace it, and I see this as a viable step (now, finally).

I feel better already and I don't abuse it, but as a heart patient I am still concerned of possible side-effects coming from either the nicotine or the glycerin (or any other eventually harmful substances) that liquid may contain.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Seeing there is virtually no data or regulating of it, I'd be very skeptical of it.

 

[Musing Man]

Only the first part is of major concern for me. The second (regulations) is rather tertiary to none whatsoever. FDA (in the US) tried that recently, igniting a rather big fuss. As far as I can tell, not even FDA did much research on it - its regulations concerned mostly labeling, advertising/marketing and age limits.

Thank you Jimmy.

 

[steve_bnk]

What I heard said in the news, they vaporize nicotine from liquid. The cigarette-tube design is probably all psychological.

Nicotine is a poison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cigarette

'... electronic cigarette (e-cig or e-cigarette), personal vaporizer (PV) or electronic nicotine delivery system (ENDS) is a battery-powered device which simulates tobacco smoking by producing a vapor that resembles smoke. It generally uses a heating element known as an atomizer, that vaporizes a liquid solution. Some solutions contain a mixture of nicotine and flavorings, while others release a flavored vapor without nicotine....'

 

[rousseau]

I've seen a few articles in the past months that state things like 'e-cigarettes don't help you to quit'. I didn't read them because they're of no concern to me, but as far as I can gather e-cigarettes are a healthier alternative to cigarettes themselves, but do very little in the way of cutting out the habit altogether. This make sense to me as the 'habit' of smoking an e-cigarette is virtually identical to smoking a real cigarette, and you're still getting nicotine at regular intervals.

 

[Musing Man]

Thank you, Steve, but I've read what one may call ”common knowledge” on the subject. And as a 33 yo smoker, believe me I know what nicotine is.

In excess it can kill, as pretty much anything, including bricks. Yep, construction bricks. Even one can be fatal, provided it's not used properly.

 

[Musing Man]

I've seen a few articles in the past months that state things like 'e-cigarettes don't help you to quit'. I didn't read them because they're of no concern to me, but as far as I can gather e-cigarettes are a healthier alternative to cigarettes themselves, but do very little in the way of cutting out the habit altogether. This make sense to me as the 'habit' of smoking an e-cigarette is virtually identical to smoking a real cigarette, and you're still getting nicotine at regular intervals.

Most articles I've read are either ill-informed or biased toward one position. Which isn't helpful.
Smoking e-cigs cannot be as harmful as smoking regular cigarettes due to lacking several thousands of toxic compounds, starting with tar.
Nicotine dependency is much more easier to solve.

I'm after ONE bloody scientific study. If there is one, I can't find it...

 

[rousseau]

I can't imagine how unbelievably hard it'd be to quit after 33 years. I did it after 5 and it was a bitch.

 

[rousseau]

Nothing in the way of pure science, but here's some stuff I've pulled from Twitter just now:

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...espite-Evidence-They-Help-People-Stop-Smoking
http://blogs.wsj.com/five-things/2014/04/24/5-questions-about-the-fdas-e-cigarettes-rules/?mod=e2tw
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...nings-rise-sharply-according-new-study-n71366
http://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessat...tter&utm_campaign=advertisingprofitsfrom+home

I think it's safe to say that they're healthier than cigarettes, but nowhere close to safe.

 

[rousseau]

I've seen a few articles in the past months that state things like 'e-cigarettes don't help you to quit'. I didn't read them because they're of no concern to me, but as far as I can gather e-cigarettes are a healthier alternative to cigarettes themselves, but do very little in the way of cutting out the habit altogether. This make sense to me as the 'habit' of smoking an e-cigarette is virtually identical to smoking a real cigarette, and you're still getting nicotine at regular intervals.

Most articles I've read are either ill-informed or biased toward one position. Which isn't helpful.
Smoking e-cigs cannot be as harmful as smoking regular cigarettes due to lacking several thousands of toxic compounds, starting with tar.
Nicotine dependency is much more easier to solve.

I'm after ONE bloody scientific study. If there is one, I can't find it...

Based on inferences from those last few links, it doesn't seem like there is conclusive evidence yet.

 

[Musing Man]

I can't imagine how unbelievably hard it'd be to quit after 33 years. I did it after 5 and it was a bitch.

I smoke since i was 13, and I'm close to 47 now. It's 33+ and - yes - unimaginably hard. But for three days straight now I haven't had a smoke (a ”real” one). If I am to read labels correctly (or if they're truthful) I'm smoking even less.

But what concerns me most is not the nicotine, but the glycerin. I'm all against sugars, so...

Thanks for the concern, rousseau!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I've seen a few articles in the past months that state things like 'e-cigarettes don't help you to quit'. I didn't read them because they're of no concern to me, but as far as I can gather e-cigarettes are a healthier alternative to cigarettes themselves, but do very little in the way of cutting out the habit altogether. This make sense to me as the 'habit' of smoking an e-cigarette is virtually identical to smoking a real cigarette, and you're still getting nicotine at regular intervals.

Most articles I've read are either ill-informed or biased toward one position. Which isn't helpful.
Smoking e-cigs cannot be as harmful as smoking regular cigarettes due to lacking several thousands of toxic compounds, starting with tar.
Nicotine dependency is much more easier to solve.

I was surprised when I found out they had (or some had) nicotine in them. I thought they were pretty much just fake cigarettes. The big problem right now, I think, is disclosure.

 

[braces_for_impact]

I've seen a few articles in the past months that state things like 'e-cigarettes don't help you to quit'. I didn't read them because they're of no concern to me, but as far as I can gather e-cigarettes are a healthier alternative to cigarettes themselves, but do very little in the way of cutting out the habit altogether. This make sense to me as the 'habit' of smoking an e-cigarette is virtually identical to smoking a real cigarette, and you're still getting nicotine at regular intervals.

This would be my tentative conclusion as well. There are also different types of e-cigs, and I think that may effect your ability to quit. My GF currently uses them as a healtheir alternative than regular cigs, and I can live with these because there's no smell. I have known people that have quit on them, but they all have used the type where you buy the nicotine juice separately. The juice is available in different nicotine dosages, and they slowly quit by stepping down the dose. Other than the method of intake, I see little difference between that method and a nicotine patch.

I quit cold turkey in January of 2010, after smoking for 22 years. People ask me how I did it. I'm not even sure. I had tried multiple times before and couldn't ever get beyond a few weeks. I had a daughter a couple of months prior, and it just felt wrong. On the other hand I'd smoked with my other children. At the time I quit there were 4 other smokers in the house. I think I was just ready.

 

[Musing Man]

Nah, they started as a ”healthier” nicotine delivery system - outright. They all had nicotine from the very beginning. Nicotine content which one could lower (gradually or not) to a towering zero.

When I first tried e-cigs, back in 2003, they were awful (to me). And there was no choice - one pretty much had to inhale what was availabe (not much). There's a whole new world today: in addition to a ”harmful” base, one can craft one's mix to one's liking: nicotine concentration, flavor, even color.

 

[Zeluvia]

The fancier ones have refillable reservoirs that you can put about any mix of flavors and strength of nicotine in.

Nicotine is a poison, just like alcohol and many other substances that will kill you if you do too much. However, recent studies are showing that nicotine, like alcohol, has some beneficial aspects for humans too.

 

[Musing Man]

The fancier ones have refillable reservoirs that you can put about any mix of flavors and strength of nicotine in.

Nicotine is a poison, just like alcohol and many other substances that will kill you if you do too much. However, recent studies are showing that nicotine, like alcohol, has some beneficial aspects for humans too.

Many substances can be poisonous to us, not poisons per se. Many of them have proven benefits.
But that's off-topic.

 

[steve_bnk]

Thank you, Steve, but I've read what one may call ”common knowledge” on the subject. And as a 33 yo smoker, believe me I know what nicotine is.

In excess it can kill, as pretty much anything, including bricks. Yep, construction bricks. Even one can be fatal, provided it's not used properly.

Caveat Emptor...Let the buyer beware applies.

Historically on a product like this FDA approval is no real protection against long term harm. Historically studies submitted to the FDA tend to performed by entities that have connections to the manufacturer. Favorable or moderated results mean more future funded studies.

Of my many shortcomings, fortunately I never smoked.

 

[Musing Man]

Caveat Emptor...Let the buyer beware applies.

Historically on a product like this FDA approval is no real protection against long term harm. Historically studies submitted to the FDA tend to performed by entities that have connections to the manufacturer. Favorable or moderated results mean more future funded studies.

Of my many shortcomings, fortunately I never smoked.

That was not an actual disagreement, as far as I can tell.
And while the FDA is theoretically a good thing, it's (nowadays) basically a toothless marketing instrument for the highest bidder. Nothing more.

I'm very glad you never smoked and I so wish I never did.

 

[ramoss]

From what I understand, some brands also have formaldehyde and acetone in it. There seems to be a lack of control about the quality of ingredients (at the moment). The second hand vapor can contain nicotine also, but at about 1/10th the level of regular cigarettes.

From everything I have read it's not 100% benign, but when it comes to the effect on the lung for emphysema , it is much much less damaging that regular cigarettes. They have found that nicotine in the vap systems has the same negative effect on cells as regular cigarettes, so the potential for cancer is likely to be there still.

Andocatal evidence says that people who want to can 'dial back' the levels of nicotine to eventually quit, although this has not been evaluated by the FDA yet.

My personal feeling about vaping is that it is less damaging than regular cigarettes, so out of the two, it is preferable. As for quitting, quitting is easy, I know people who quit 4 times a day.

Some people say they have cut down. I don't know if the 'dialing down the nicotine' is accurate. I say that , all else being equal, the cleaning up of the lungs so you get better oxygen is worth moving to ecigs from cigs. I personally would like to hear someone's account that is trying to use it to quit.. ..,, most of the comments I have read it is trading one habit for another... that appears to be less damaging. For all the claims i have seen about 'dial down the nicotine', they still use it.

Anybody that actually uses cigarettes would benefit from ecigs (IMO), but anybody who doesn't smoke that starts it is not doing themselves a favor.

 

[steve_bnk]

Caveat Emptor...Let the buyer beware applies.

Historically on a product like this FDA approval is no real protection against long term harm. Historically studies submitted to the FDA tend to performed by entities that have connections to the manufacturer. Favorable or moderated results mean more future funded studies.

Of my many shortcomings, fortunately I never smoked.

That was not an actual disagreement, as far as I can tell.
And while the FDA is theoretically a good thing, it's (nowadays) basically a toothless marketing instrument for the highest bidder. Nothing more.

I'm very glad you never smoked and I so wish I never did.

My father was severely addicted when I was kid and would go into a panic if he ran out. Chain smoker.

Probably made an impression on me.