• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

E-cigs/”vaping”

 
 
 
@ ramos: that's exactly what I'm trying to do, man. quit smoking via vaping. I do not intend to keep vaping in the slightest. I'm in my fourth day now, still no cig and everything OK.

@ steve: my father was a chain smoker too, and quit cold turkey; something I tried several times. But he's not a role model to me by any means.
 
Once again I am trying to quit. I prefer using the patch.

Right now I'm in a state of constant failure. Every day once a day, I rip off the patch, puff a cigarette, and over the course of a few hours puff a couple more, then put another patch back on. If I follow my usual pattern, I'll get it down to one cigarette, then no cigarettes, then coast on that for a while before downgrading from the step 2 patch to the step 1.

Considering how often I fail, it's surprising that I keep going back to the patch, but at least that way I'm on a fixed nicotine dosage. With other nicotine delivery systems, the dosage is effectively variable based on my urges, and I suspect that if I try that route, I'll just end up mimicking the dosage I had while smoking regularly, which doesn't move me towards my goal.
 
Underseer said:
Once again I am trying to quit. I prefer using the patch.

Right now I'm in a state of constant failure. Every day once a day, I rip off the patch, puff a cigarette, and over the course of a few hours puff a couple more, then put another patch back on. If I follow my usual pattern, I'll get it down to one cigarette, then no cigarettes, then coast on that for a while before downgrading from the step 2 patch to the step 1.

Considering how often I fail, it's surprising that I keep going back to the patch, but at least that way I'm on a fixed nicotine dosage. With other nicotine delivery systems, the dosage is effectively variable based on my urges, and I suspect that if I try that route, I'll just end up mimicking the dosage I had while smoking regularly, which doesn't move me towards my goal.
Click to expand...

You may be right, I don't know. I have several problems regarding the „other” nicotine delivery systems. I'm allergic to the patch(es) and they are WAY more expensive. So is the chewing gum. For example, where I live, a pack of smokes is 3 euros, while the cheapest pack of patches is 5 (and barely lasts two days, for those who can stand them), while a pack of Nicorette (nicotinized chewing gum) is 6-to-8 euros - depending on the pharmacy; and it won't last a day. A bottle of vaping liquid is under 2 euros and lasts over a week (I'm in my fourth day now and I have yet to reach half the bottle - 30 ml).

I constantly failed to quit too, using other methods. Not this time, it seems. All the best, man, and good luck! :)
 
Underseer said:
Considering how often I fail, it's surprising that I keep going back to the patch, but at least that way I'm on a fixed nicotine dosage. With other nicotine delivery systems, the dosage is effectively variable based on my urges, and I suspect that if I try that route, I'll just end up mimicking the dosage I had while smoking regularly, which doesn't move me towards my goal.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you should change your goal from "giving up nicotine" to "smoking less"?

I was a heavy smoker for 30 years and had tried all sorts of methods for giving up: gum, patches, drugs, etc. All of these turned out to be unsatisfying replacements for smoking and I eventually ended up smoking again. I even tried some of the first generation e-cigs about 6 years ago -- whilst these were more pleasant that gum or patches they were quite fiddly to use and did not deliver enough nicotine to satisfy my cravings and I gradually slid back into smoking. About 2 years ago I resolved to do something about my smoking habit, but this time I decided to thoroughly research the subject before I started. What I found out was that conventional nicotine replacement therapies had very low success rates, in fact they were barely better than cold turkey; that the harm from smoking comes mostly from the products of combustion of tobacco rather than nicotine and that the harm is roughly proportional to the number of cigarettes smoked.
I decided then to set myself the goal of halving the number of cigarettes I was smoking and sustaining this lower level of smoking. When researching e-cigs I found there had been improvements in the technology since I last used them and I got some advice from former heavy smokers who were using them with success: Start with a very high nicotine strength liquid (30mg/ml or higher) and use devices with refillable tanks and separate rechargeable 'manual' batteries. So I ordered some kit, and when it arrived I started using it and, to my surprise...

I haven't smoked a cigarette since then, and I haven't even had a craving for one.

I think it worked for me because I could vary the dosage according to my urges and it replicated some aspects of smoking that other methods don't -- I got a 'throat hit' and a sufficiently large and rapid spike in nicotine when I wanted it. After a couple of weeks I found the very high strength nicotine too much and dropped down to a lower strength, and over time I have gradually dialled back the strength further. I still use e-cigs, but feel no urgency to give them up since I have the health benefits of not smoking, I enjoy using them and it is quite inexpensive (I spend about £5/month on liquid).
 
bongomaniac said:
Start with a very high nicotine strength liquid (30mg/ml or higher) and use devices with refillable tanks and separate rechargeable 'manual' batteries. So I ordered some kit, and when it arrived I started using it and, to my surprise...

I haven't smoked a cigarette since then, and I haven't even had a craving for one.

I think it worked for me because I could vary the dosage according to my urges and it replicated some aspects of smoking that other methods don't -- I got a 'throat hit' and a sufficiently large and rapid spike in nicotine when I wanted it. After a couple of weeks I found the very high strength nicotine too much and dropped down to a lower strength, and over time I have gradually dialled back the strength further. I still use e-cigs, but feel no urgency to give them up since I have the health benefits of not smoking, I enjoy using them and it is quite inexpensive (I spend about £5/month on liquid).
Click to expand...

Glad it worked for you, mate, it looks like I'm following your footsteps. :) I tried the 36 mg/ml but it was too much for me, so I settled at 18 mg/ml (I diluted it myself; also tried 24 mg/ml for one day).

One important question for you: have you even tried to quit e-cigs? If so, is it hard?
I know that vaping is several orders of magnitude less toxic than smoking, but my ultimate goal is to quit inhaling anything other than air (and the lovely pollutants in it - toxic enough as it is). Air quality is piss-poor where I live, unfortunately...
 
Musing Man said:
One important question for you: have you even tried to quit e-cigs? If so, is it hard?
I know that vaping is several orders of magnitude less toxic than smoking, but my ultimate goal is to quit inhaling anything other than air (and the lovely pollutants in it - toxic enough as it is). Air quality is piss-poor where I live, unfortunately...
Click to expand...

I've gone without for a couple of days without any problem, but I don't feel bad about going back since I enjoy at and it isn't a particularly harmful or expensive habit.
 
And sir, I hope you are successful. However, even if you are not, e-cigs is definitely the better alternative. Stories have it being successful for quitting totally, but the ones that claim that seem to still be vaping. .. A number of them claim to have reduced the nicotine to nothing though.

There is some claim about some diabetics having higher blood sugar when vaping. It was suggested to take blood sugar levels before and after vaping to see if it has an effect.
 
ramoss said:
And sir, I hope you are successful. However, even if you are not, e-cigs is definitely the better alternative. Stories have it being successful for quitting totally, but the ones that claim that seem to still be vaping. .. A number of them claim to have reduced the nicotine to nothing though.

There is some claim about some diabetics having higher blood sugar when vaping. It was suggested to take blood sugar levels before and after vaping to see if it has an effect.
Click to expand...

Nicotine raises blood sugar, no matter whether you get it from a cig, chew, patch or vaping.
 
Zeluvia said:
Nicotine raises blood sugar, no matter whether you get it from a cig, chew, patch or vaping.
Click to expand...

I'll grant you that nicotine messes up insulin production, but it raises blood sugar how? Can you please provide a link, or something to substantiate this? Sorry if it seems like an aggressive question; it's not - I'm just trying to wrap my mind over a lot of important things, and that is one of the most important ones.
Thank you in advance!
 
For those trying to quit...

Smoked for 40 years. Tried seriously to quit maybe 5x.

I discovered, after committing to try one more time, a common brand of e-cigs sold in most convenience and many grocery stored which comes in nifty red or green plastic container that looks sort of like a skinny lighter. It also has a little pull off strip like the ones around cigarette packs.

When you get the wrapper off, you flip up the top. IT ACTS and SOUNDS JUST LIKE A LIGHTER.

The darn thing "cured" me inside of a couple of days. I could reach into my pocket pull out my "lighter" flip up the lid and pull the e-cig out with my lips. I came to realize how much the RITUAL was part of my habit. For years I've been leaving the office when stressed, stepping outside and reaching into that pocket flipping a lid and hearing that noise.

Still smoking the e-cigs but they have tons of advantages over the "real" ones. And I'm convinced they are healthier. As somebody wrote, there seem to be hundreds of tobacco additives that don't seem to be in these.

If nothing else, now I can smoke in the office...
 
One thing they have found is that some e-cigs DO have the formaldehyde in it. Some of the e-cig machines (mostly the refillables) have a higher voltage, and the e-gcig machines that have voltages over 3v run hotter, and will cause formaldehyde to form.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101639987
 
Chicago decided not to wait for something as silly as science and already voted to treat e-cigs identical to real cigs in terms of banning them from pretty much everywhere but private homes. They cite no evidence, just the tired justifications about needing to protect the children from being "lured" into the coolness of e-cig use.
They are eliminating all of the convenience factors that motivate many people to use e-cigs instead of real cigs. That is essentially guaranteed to increase the use of real cigs and reduce the rate of quitting real cigs. Not to mention if your excuse is "we don't want kids seeing people use e-cigs", then forcing them from bars (where there are no kids) onto sidewalks (where there are kids) is not too bright.
 
Well, one piece of evidence is that , in some E-cig models, you do get the formaldehyde forming.

If the voltage of the e-cig is increased , formaldehyde does form, The bigger 'tank' models are the ones that have this issue.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101639987
 
Just to point out, the 'on vaping' is a biased web site to promote vaping over e-cigs. While I am sure that vaping is much safer that e-cigs, this site looked biased enough to gloss over negative studies.
 
ramoss said:
Just to point out, the 'on vaping' is a biased web site to promote vaping over e-cigs. While I am sure that vaping is much safer that e-cigs, this site looked biased enough to gloss over negative studies.
Click to expand...

Kinda obvious, ain't it? :)
Nevertheless, I can take it from there. I'm especially after negative studies. Thanks! :)
 
Musing Man said:
I was a smoker for well over 30 years and have tried all imaginable means to quit. Including first and second generations of electronic cigarettes, or e-cigs. That is, before they were even trendy. Several days ago I decided to give one another shot and I was amazed - now we're talking!

At pretty much the same time, I started to look for articles centered on the ”vaping” topic - the more scientific, the better, I thought. But, to my amazement, this over 10 year old phenomenon has a slim to none scientific basis. As for the regular press, liberals embrace it while conservatives are reluctant - no surprise there.

I have yet to read a fair and balanced (if possible, scientific) article.

I was unable to find one, maybe some of you fine guys can help.

My ultimate goal is to quit one bad habit, not to replace it, and I see this as a viable step (now, finally).

I feel better already and I don't abuse it, but as a heart patient I am still concerned of possible side-effects coming from either the nicotine or the glycerin (or any other eventually harmful substances) that liquid may contain.
Click to expand...

Nicotine is hard on the heart and arteries without any tars and burning poisons says one who had a heart attack at 48, his first of 6 vascular surgeries at 53, a pacemaker at 58 and who is now hanging on the edge with heart failure at an oxygen efficiency rating of 25%. Don't even try to stay addicted.
 
fromderinside said:
Nicotine is hard on the heart and arteries without any tars and burning poisons says one who had a heart attack at 48, his first of 6 vascular surgeries at 53, a pacemaker at 58 and who is now hanging on the edge with heart failure at an oxygen efficiency rating of 25%. Don't even try to stay addicted.
Click to expand...

Oh, man, I deeply regret your condition.
I had my HA at 43 (sounds almost like a title) and I have no intention of repeating or aggravating it. One small stent planted. Pray tell, if you want (either here or via PM, of course), what were your aggravating factors.
As I previously stated, I have no intention of staying hooked by nicotine, e-cigs are for me just as a really (and first) helpful tool to get rid of smoking once and for all. Bad, bad habit.
But, given the vast amount of studies I recently read, I have to disagree with you on one crucial point: nicotine in itself does not harden arterial walls; only real smoking does (especially tar and some of the 4000+ extra-chemicals found in cigarette smoke).

All the best, good man.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom