Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

[Cheerful Charlie]

Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits

Pure baloney. The earliest cities such as Catal Hoyuk were establish 9000 years ago. Creating heavily fortified cities takes a lot of cooperation, organization and long hard work to reap the rewards and benefits of a safe place to live. This millenia before Israel or Islam. You knoweth not what you babble.

 

[Smoker]

god created heaven there is no slavery but earth is for human to learn and to be civilized

How much do you think all those slaves learned while they were working their asses off all day? Don't you think it would be easier for them to learn if they didn't have to work so much?

 

[none]

which begs the question "is slavery progress?"

human made progress because of slavery

back to your main idea that slavery was necessary, slavery could have been theorized it didn't have to be implemented; slavery isn't necessary for progress.

thats a good idea , just theorized economic that will create millions of jobs

it is a matter of conscience to pick any particular economic principle and implement it, you don't have to implement every principle.
just because you think of slavery doesn't mean it's implementation is necessary for "human progress"... whatever "human progress" means.
maybe a definition is in order for "human progress"..
take for instance the invention of the wheel, was slavery necessary for the invention of the wheel?

 

[DBT]

Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits

As others have already pointed out: it takes cooperation to plan and build towns and cities, store food, organize trade, profit and benefit being a part of planning, etc.

 

[Keith&Co.]

As others have already pointed out: it takes cooperation to plan and build towns and cities, store food, organize trade, profit and benefit being a part of planning, etc.

Actually, it takes cooperation to have slaves... The number of people who recognize you own someone, and will return them to their 'rightful owner' has to be greater than the number of people who are owned, at least at first. Otherwise, you'd have to work just as hard as the slave to keep the slave productive. And once they realized they outnumbered you, if they had no fear of a whole society that understood and cooperated with teh slave model, they'd just kick your ass and go home.

And you need others in your society to recognize that these are YOUR slaves, or it's just one big anarchy-flavored round of whup-ass. More cooperation is necessary.

Sorry, Syed, when you think about it, your argument is self-defeating. Again.

 

[atrib]

tell us how would roman, egypt and greek would have built their civilization without slavery?

You keep missing the point. You are arguing that your God wanted ancient civilisations to exist, so he had to let people keep slaves. But that doesn't make any sense alongside the assertion you have made elsewhere that your God is all-powerful and can do anything. If your God is supposed to be powerful and smart enough to create the universe, he's certainly powerful and smart enough to come up with a way to make civilisation develop without slavery.

The basic point is simple: if an all-powerful God exists, then whatever he wants, he gets. That's what all-powerful means. So whatever we observe to be actually the case -- like thousands of years of slavery -- must have been exactly what God wanted.

god created heaven there is no slavery but earth is for human to learn and to be civilized

What did the slaves learn?

 

[Keith&Co.]

So, in summary, Syed has forged incredibly new ground and a unique standard for apologies in which something regrettable found in history is claimed to be the best of all possible worlds, and god is proven to be real by the observation that he didn't do a fucking thing about it.
God's inaction, god's invisibility, god's complete divorce from yet another aspect of human history is submitted as positive proof of The Skybeast. Ha-Allah-lujah, Amen and Yowza pa-tang.

I'm sure this will prove to be a profitable venue for Syed's faith and his credibility with skeptics and theists of non-muslim flavors.

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

allah dont NEED slavery to build a civilization but EARLY human NEEDED slavery to build a civilization

Okay. Allah didn't need slavery. Got it.
Humans needed slavery. Allah allowed them to own slaves.
Allah must have wanted human slavery to exist.
Why did Allah want human slavery to exist, Syed?

allah didnt want human slavery to exist but he accepted this is the only way human will makes progress

Then why didn't he do anything to stop it once Civilization was established?
When they had, you know, money?

he did said to free slave

Only as a punishment:

92 It is not for a believer to kill a believer unless (it be) by mistake. He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave, and pay the blood- money to the family of the slain, unless they remit it as a charity. If he (the victim) be of a people hostile unto you, and he is a believer, then (the penance is) to set free a believing slave. And if he cometh of a folk between whom and you there is a covenant, then the blood-money must be paid unto his folk and (also) a believing slave must be set free. And whoso hath not the wherewithal must fast two consecutive months. A penance from Allah. Allah is Knower, Wise.

At no point in the koran is slavery condemned, nor does it tell believers they should free slaves as a matter of course. And the above only applies to "believing" slaves.

 

[funinspace]

Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits

Pure baloney. The earliest cities such as Catal Hoyuk were establish 9000 years ago. Creating heavily fortified cities takes a lot of cooperation, organization and long hard work to reap the rewards and benefits of a safe place to live. This millenia before Israel or Islam. You knoweth not what you babble.

Never mind that civilizations figured out the concept of money ages ago, and prior to the "great" civilizations that Syed has mentioned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_money#The_emergence_of_money

he Code of Hammurabi, the best preserved ancient law code, was created ca. 1760 BC (middle chronology) in ancient Babylon. It was enacted by the sixth Babylonian king, Hammurabi. Earlier collections of laws include the code of Ur-Nammu, king of Ur (ca. 2050 BC), the Code of Eshnunna (ca. 1930 BC) and the code of Lipit-Ishtar of Isin (ca. 1870 BC).[29] These law codes formalized the role of money in civil society. They set amounts of interest on debt... fines for 'wrongdoing'... and compensation in money for various infractions of formalized law.
<snip>
The use of gold as proto-money has been traced back to the fourth millennium BC when the Egyptians used gold bars of a set weight as a medium of exchange,[citation needed] as had been done earlier in Mesopotamia with silver bars.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I saw the thread title and presumed a social science study/paper/book was going to be attached discussing the logistics of human societal advances and how slavery played a role in it.

I was disappointed but not surprised.

so you believe slavery was not necessary?

I'm saying I was hoping for an intellectual discussion on it, with a reference or two from papers or books discussing the logistics of societal advancement thousands to tens of thousands of years ago. It'd be an interesting topic to discuss.

However, all you did was say it had to be true in OP and have not done any even bare basics research on the topic. So the OP and your subsequent "contributions" in this thread are a fail.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

tell us how would roman, egypt and greek would have built their civilization without slavery?

You keep missing the point. You are arguing that your God wanted ancient civilisations to exist, so he had to let people keep slaves. But that doesn't make any sense alongside the assertion you have made elsewhere that your God is all-powerful and can do anything. If your God is supposed to be powerful and smart enough to create the universe, he's certainly powerful and smart enough to come up with a way to make civilisation develop without slavery.

The basic point is simple: if an all-powerful God exists, then whatever he wants, he gets. That's what all-powerful means. So whatever we observe to be actually the case -- like thousands of years of slavery -- must have been exactly what God wanted.

god created heaven there is no slavery but earth is for human to learn and to be civilized

What did the slaves learn?

That it's good to be The King?

 

[Perspicuo]

After the domestication of horses, cattle and dogs, slavery is unnecessary.

do you mean horse , cattle and gods able to do human work?

Guided by humans, they provide horsepower. The rest humans can do for a fair salary.

.

i already mention that early human did not invented money

Oh, sorry my bad. I forgot humanity has to accept things because Syed says so.

 

[jonJ]

god created heaven there is no slavery but earth is for human to learn and to be civilized

Same problem. If an all-powerful God wants humans to be civilised, then he can just make them civilised, can't he? With no suffering involved for anyone. You've hit a dead end, Syed. The God whose bad behaviour you want to justify can't be an omnipotent God.

 

[Syed]

I didn't reply because i thought paul needed help.
I replied because you have a sucky record at replying to questions.

2) he said to free slave

Then why didn't he say to free slaves before slavery started?
Why didn't he just create civilization?

before slavery started? i want some what you drinking

Syed, you have drawn attention to the fact that civilization correlates with slavery.
But you haven't shown that slavery is NECESSARY to civilization.

why do you think roman had slaves?

 

[Syed]

Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits

Pure baloney. The earliest cities such as Catal Hoyuk were establish 9000 years ago. Creating heavily fortified cities takes a lot of cooperation, organization and long hard work to reap the rewards and benefits of a safe place to live.

when did human slavery started before money invented or after money invented?

 

[Syed]

god created heaven there is no slavery but earth is for human to learn and to be civilized

How much do you think all those slaves learned while they were working their asses off all day? Don't you think it would be easier for them to learn if they didn't have to work so much?

before invention of money slaves use as a work force build homes,wells, road, farms etc

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits

Pure baloney. The earliest cities such as Catal Hoyuk were establish 9000 years ago. Creating heavily fortified cities takes a lot of cooperation, organization and long hard work to reap the rewards and benefits of a safe place to live.

when did human slavery started before money invented or after money invented?

Don't know. What does the Qu'ran say about it?

 

[Syed]

Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits

As others have already pointed out: it takes cooperation to plan and build towns and cities, store food, organize trade, profit and benefit being a part of planning, etc.

do you really believe primitive people know how to build towns and cities?

 

[Syed]

Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits

Pure baloney. The earliest cities such as Catal Hoyuk were establish 9000 years ago. Creating heavily fortified cities takes a lot of cooperation, organization and long hard work to reap the rewards and benefits of a safe place to live.

when did human slavery started before money invented or after money invented?

Don't know. What does the Qu'ran say about it?

i am disappointed but not surprised

quran does not say any thing but rationally thinking tell me that slavery started before invention of money

 

[Keith&Co.]

]Syed, you have drawn attention to the fact that civilization correlates with slavery.
But you haven't shown that slavery is NECESSARY to civilization.

why do you think roman had slaves?

Lots of reasons.
But tell us why your god was FORCED to allow slavery?

- - - Updated - - -

quran does not say any thing but rationally thinking tell me that slavery started before invention of money

But Syed, your rational thinking also tells you that your god is a good god, so it clearly can't be trusted.

The question is, if Allah was against slavery, why couldn't he have prevented slavery?

- - - Updated - - -

do you really believe primitive people know how to build towns and cities?

Yes, Syed. They're the same people we are.



But they had to have a cooperative society before they had slaves. Spoiling your entire point....