• Welcome to the Internet Infidels Discussion Board.

Economist Stephanie Kelton on The Deficit Myth

The main function of taxation is to reduce inflation.

Economics has been distorted for so long that people actually think that. The main function of taxation is to fund the government.

It is impressive that the economic situation in the western world has been distorted for so long that people actually believe in the Magic Money Tree (MMT).
 
The main function of taxation is to reduce inflation.

Economics has been distorted for so long that people actually think that. The main function of taxation is to fund the government.
It's been a while since the currency I'd the land no longer is bullion.
It is impressive that the economic situation in the western world has been distorted for so long that people actually believe in the Magic Money Tree (MMT).

It's impressive that some people still think Adam Smith's astute insights can be applied unmodified to the current day, without any kind of modification.
 
Of course we have to take into account all the distortions to the economy that cause modifications to the basic theories. That doesn't mean those distortions aren't distortions.

Even using fiat currency instead of bullion it is still the case that the main function of taxation is to fund the government. People can only think otherwise because they've never experienced an economy not under the control of politicians.
 
The main function of taxation is to reduce inflation.

Economics has been distorted for so long that people actually think that. The main function of taxation is to fund the government.

It is impressive that the economic situation in the western world has been distorted for so long that people actually believe in the Magic Money Tree (MMT).

Why would the government need funding? It can print all the money it needs.

Of course inflation would be the downside of that. The reason we don't print what we need is that we want to avoid inflation.

The purpose of collecting taxes is to avoid inflation. If we didn't need to avoid inflation, we wouldn't bother to tax.

-

Suppose the United States had a rich aunt who died, and left it enough money to "fund the government" for the next ten years. Would we be able then to quit collecting taxes? No, because inflation.

Spain had a rich aunt. They discovered silver mines in the New World. The mines "funded" the Spanish government, so they didn't tax enough to prevent inflation, so they suffered.

-

Or suppose the covid problem is exasperated, first by an ebola outbreak that is not properly contained because our resources are already stretched by ebola, and then by a nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan. And then a meteorite hits China. It looks like we're going to have a worldwide depression.

Can we run a serious deficit now? Sure, because inflation is not what we're worried about. We not only can run the deficit; we must.

-

We see, then, that having funding can't prevent taxation, and lacking funding can't cause taxation. Taxation doesn't have to do with funding.

It has to do with inflation.

When inflation looms, we have to either cut back spending or raise taxes. When depression looms, we have to either cut taxes or increase spending. This remains true regardless of whether government is "funded."
 
The main function of taxation is to reduce inflation.

Economics has been distorted for so long that people actually think that. The main function of taxation is to fund the government.

It is impressive that the economic situation in the western world has been distorted for so long that people actually believe in the Magic Money Tree (MMT).

Why would the government need funding? It can print all the money it needs.

That belief is a symptom of the effect the long term distortions have had on economic thinking.

When inflation looms, we have to either cut back spending or raise taxes. When depression looms, we have to either cut taxes or increase spending. This remains true regardless of whether government is "funded."

The Spanish example shows what happens if you have a drastic increase in the money supply. Prices adjust accordingly. But the relationship between taxes and inflation isn't the one you describe, but a result of basing theories off a distorted economic system. Another way is to stop increasing the money supply.

Taxation is the paycheck of the government, at least in a sane system. We've been disturbed so long people are finding truly insane theories based on the disorder.
 
Taxation is the paycheck of the government, at least in a sane system. We've been disturbed so long people are finding truly insane theories based on the disorder.

A theory that models a "sane system" is useless if it doesn't accurately model the "disorder" of the system we actually use.
 
Why would the government need funding? It can print all the money it needs.

That belief is a symptom of the effect the long term distortions have had on economic thinking.

When inflation looms, we have to either cut back spending or raise taxes. When depression looms, we have to either cut taxes or increase spending. This remains true regardless of whether government is "funded."

The Spanish example shows what happens if you have a drastic increase in the money supply. Prices adjust accordingly. But the relationship between taxes and inflation isn't the one you describe, but a result of basing theories off a distorted economic system. Another way is to stop increasing the money supply.

Taxation is the paycheck of the government, at least in a sane system. We've been disturbed so long people are finding truly insane theories based on the disorder.


You're telling me you disagree, but you don't say why.
 
Interesting response to her book by Tyler Cowen:

1. Much of it is quite unobjectionable and well-known, dating back to the Bullionist debates or earlier yet. Yet regularly it flies off the handle and makes unsupported macroeconomic assertions.

2. Like many of the Austrians, Kelton likes to insist on special terms, such as the government spending “coming first.” You don’t have to say this is wrong, just keep your eye on the ball and don’t let it distract you.

3. “MMT has emphasized that rising interest income can serve as a potential form of fiscal stimulus.” You don’t have to believe in a naive form of Say’s Law, but discussions of demand should start with the notion of production. Then…never reason from an interest rate change! Overall, I sense Kelton has one core model of the macroeconomy, with a whole host of variables held fixed (“well…higher interest rates means printing up more money to pay for them and thus greater stimulus…”), and then applies that model to a whole series of quite general problems and questions.

4. She thinks “demand” simply puts resources to work, and in this sense the book is a nice reductio ad absurdum of the economics one increasingly sees from mainstream writers on Twitter. p.s.: The economy doesn’t have a “speed limit.” And it shouldn’t be modeled using analogies with buckets.

5. We are told that the U.S. “…can’t lose control of its interest rate”, but real and nominal interest rates are not distinguished with care in these discussions. The Fed’s ability to control real rates is fairly limited, though not zero, and those are empirical truths never countered or even confronted in this book.

6. The absence of a nominal budget constraint is confused repeatedly with the absence of a real budget constraint. That is one of the major errors in this book.

7. It still would be very useful if the MMT people would take a mainstream macro model and spell out which assumptions they wish to make different, and then solve for the properties of the new model. There is a reason why they won’t do that.

8. I don’t care what the author says or how canonical she is as a source, a federal jobs guarantee is not part of MMT.

9. Just because the economy is not at absolute full unemployment, it does not mean that free resources are on the table for the taking. Again, in this regard Kelton is a useful reductio on a lot of “Twitter macro.”

10. I am plenty well read in the “money cranks” of earlier times, including Soddy, Foster, Catchings, Kitson, Proudhon, Tucker, and many more. They got a lot of things right, but they also failed to produce coherent macro theories. I would strongly recommend that Kelton undertake a close study of their failings.

11. For all the criticisms of the quantity theory, I would like to know how the MMT people explain the Fed coming pretty close to its inflation rate target for many years in a row, under highly varying conditions, fiscal conditions too.

12. The real grain of truth here is that if monetary policy is otherwise too deflationary, monetizing parts or all of the budget deficit is not only possible, it is desirable. Absolutely, but don’t then let somebody talk loops around you.

https://marginalrevolution.com/marg...-deficit-myth-and-modern-monetary-theory.html
 
Why would the government need funding? It can print all the money it needs.

There's also the notion of fiscal space. Taxation ensures there will be resources available for the govt to purchase.


I don't understand. Can you elaborate?

Suppose the govt wanted to build a building, but no materials or labor were available; all workers were employed and all materials committed. Tax away some of the private sector's ability to spend on construction and viola, there are your resources.

In that sense, taxes DO fund govt spending. The govt may not need that tax revenue, being a currencyissuer, but it needs the private sector to NOT have it.
 
I don't understand. Can you elaborate?

Suppose the govt wanted to build a building, but no materials or labor were available; all workers were employed and all materials committed. Tax away some of the private sector's ability to spend on construction and viola, there are your resources.

In that sense, taxes DO fund govt spending. The govt may not need that tax revenue, being a currencyissuer, but it needs the private sector to NOT have it.

Interesting. Thanks.
 
Back
Top Bottom