Enacting Equality - Undoing Racial Injustice

[Testy Calibrate]

End the war on drugs. Drugs won. Erase nonviolent drug crime records. Enact extremely stringent anti corruption laws. Restructure markets to eliminate short term investments. Tax the fuck out of income over a moderately high level, throw away the cash if we can't agree what to spend it on. Make a guaranteed jobs program administered by the sba. Make various categories of police misconduct felony offenses including falsifying an official report, lying to cover for another cop, planting evidence, unprovoked violence, etc. Tax even more obove the cutoff and if the effect leaves any billionaires because we couldn't figure out how to tax right, guillotine for billionaires. I dunno, those are off the cuff but...

Education matters to but you can't teach some people to think long term until they grow up with enough stability to make long term thinking a reasonable undertaking so that's a generation away at a minimum.

 

[southernhybrid]

Poverty is a huge problem in minority neighborhoods so let's start there. Decreasing poverty will help both poor black and poor white citizens.

1. Increase the minimum wage and then adjust it yearly based on inflation. This will help the black community the most, but poor white folks will also benefit from this.

2. Provide some form of UHC. It doesn't have to be single payer. There are many ways to provide UHC. We just need to work towards the goal of having all citizens having access to medical care.

3. Teach nutrition in the schools, starting at a very young age. Obesity is a huge problem in poorer communities, especially in areas that are primarily made up of minorities. Perhaps if chidden are taught good basic nutritions and if school lunches are more nutritious, children will establish better eating habits, leading to better health outcomes.

4.Improve training, salaries and educational requirements for policing and hold police responsible for inappropriate actions.

5. Provide programs that encourage more minorities to go into teaching and medicine. We need more black medical providers. From what I've read and been told, there are a lot of black men who don't feel comfortable with a white provider. I'm happy to say that there are far more black nurses then there were when I started my own career, but there are still too few black physicians and NPs. Recruit more. Racism is a fairly big problem in health care. Black patients are often treated differently from white patients. That needs to change.

6. Decriminalize recreational drugs. I read yesterday that about 50% of current inmates are there for drug charges. That's insane. Why are we locking up people for using drugs which are often less harmful than ETOH. While statistically, just as many white people use illegal recreational drugs as black people, black folks are arrested and jailed at a much higher rate than their white peers. The entire prison system needs a drastic overhaul. That is an area where racism is very obvious. If drugs were decriminalized or made legal, this would save a huge amount of public funding, some of which could be used to provide rehab to those who want help, needle exchange programs, safe spaces to use hard core drugs for those who don't feel they can be helped etc.

And, while I totally agree that there is systemic racism in many areas of the US, it helps to also elevate poor white communities. Perhaps I feel that way because I live in city where mixed race relationships and children are extremely common. Lift up those who are in poverty so that poor white folks won't feel neglected. Attacking poverty lifts people of all ethnic backgrounds.

But, one of the best ways to help decrease racism is to encourage people to have integrated schools, work places and neighborhoods. I live in a neighborhood that has become far more integrated over the past few years. I love it. I think it helps white people who may never have had much contact with black people get to know them and understand that we are all human and our cultural differences should be appreciated, not condemned. It also helps black people realize that white people aren't all hateful racists and we welcome diversity into our neighborhoods. Yes. I'm being idealistic, but one needs to be idealistic if we think we can tackle systemic racism.

Those are ideas that will help all poor people, but which parts are there to reduce inequality? If it is worse being poor and black than being poor and white, how has this helped the fact that Black Americans face inequality. Is it enough to say, “you’re still unequal, but you’re better off than you were before; you’re still peddling uphill and someone has put your brakes on, but at least you have a bike now, right?”

I don't see how most of the things that I listed won't help black people more than white people. There is a higher percentage of black folks who are poor. There is a much higher percentage of black people who are mistreated by the police. Despite some in the medical field who deny this, there is systemic racism in medicine, not always but enough to make some Black people, especially males, not feel comfortable having a white provider. There are a much higher percentage of black people who are unfairly treated by the justice system, as evidenced by the huge difference in those who are incarcerated for drugs, when statistically white people use drugs at least as often as black people. I've mentioned that. I mentioned the schools too. They are already well integrated where I live, but places like New York City, which has the most segregated school system of any large city, certainly needs to do more to change this. At the very least, schools attended by mostly Black students need to be given the same resources as White dominate schools.

So, I'm having a hard time understanding your question. What specific issues that face Black folks do you think I"m missing. My list was something that I thought of off the top of my head. It may not be all inclusive.

I know lots of black people because I live in a Black majority town. Most of them seem happy with their lives. There are plenty of middle class professionals in my neighborhood, including an RN, a teacher, a retired military officer, a police detective and a fire fighter. But, on the other side of town, there are a high percentage of Black folks who live in poverty. There are also a large percentage of white folks who live in poverty who live in the same neighborhoods. That's where mixed race children and relationships are very common. Wouldn't it be best to help all of those in poverty and not just those from one race?

As far as some other examples of racism, I've read articles by Black physicians that make the claim that they have to deal with "micro aggressions" frequently. That may be true, but I have no idea how we can change individual racism, other than by spending more time together, which I mentioned at the end of my last post. When I worked with a lot of younger Black women, I never noticed them being treated differently from the White aides. other than by one very mentally ill patient. The Black girls knew how sick the woman was, and in fact, they laughed at her when she used a racial slur against one of them every now and then. They knew she was delusional. Most of the time she told them she loved them. Many of my Black and White coworkers were close friends. We will never get everyone to stop hating those who are different from themselves. We can only work towards making changes in regards to institutional racism and even that will be very difficult.

 

[TV and credit cards]

End the war on drugs. Drugs won. Erase nonviolent drug crime records. Enact extremely stringent anti corruption laws. Restructure markets to eliminate short term investments. Tax the fuck out of income over a moderately high level, throw away the cash if we can't agree what to spend it on. Make a guaranteed jobs program administered by the sba. Make various categories of police misconduct felony offenses including falsifying an official report, lying to cover for another cop, planting evidence, unprovoked violence, etc. Tax even more obove the cutoff and if the effect leaves any billionaires because we couldn't figure out how to tax right, guillotine for billionaires. I dunno, those are off the cuff but...

Education matters to but you can't teach some people to think long term until they grow up with enough stability to make long term thinking a reasonable undertaking so that's a generation away at a minimum.

White children are taught to thrive. Black children are taught to survive. (Paraphrased from what, I can't recall.)

Kids only get one shot at a good education. If their environment precludes that from happening, perhaps quality state boarding schools are the answer, paid for by Jeff Bezos et al.

 

[southernhybrid]

I found a good example of what I was referring to when I mentioned that decriminalizing drugs would help with racial equality.

https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-news/marijuana-possession-no-longer-an-arrestable-offense-in-another-local-city/OYDNOCP4WNBFFICK2IVQCW5IWI/

In the city of Doraville, a small suburb in northern DeKalb County, Black residents make up less than 10% of the population. Last year, however, Black people accounted for nearly 75% of the marijuana-related arrests made by the Doraville Police Department.


They were among more than 100 people arrested in Doraville in 2019 because they were allegedly found in possession of less than an ounce of marijuana, according to police department data.

“When I saw that there were over 100 people that were put in jail that would not have been put in jail except for the possession of a small amount of marijuana, I felt we needed to do something about that,” said Doraville Councilwoman Stephe Koontz, who sponsored an ordinance to decriminalize marijuana possession under one ounce. “That’s 100 people that didn’t need to spend the night in jail.”

An ordinace was passed to decriminalize small amounts of cannabis. This is one area that needs to be addressed in the fight for racial equality.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

End the war on drugs. Drugs won. Erase nonviolent drug crime records. Enact extremely stringent anti corruption laws. Restructure markets to eliminate short term investments. Tax the fuck out of income over a moderately high level, throw away the cash if we can't agree what to spend it on. Make a guaranteed jobs program administered by the sba. Make various categories of police misconduct felony offenses including falsifying an official report, lying to cover for another cop, planting evidence, unprovoked violence, etc. Tax even more obove the cutoff and if the effect leaves any billionaires because we couldn't figure out how to tax right, guillotine for billionaires. I dunno, those are off the cuff but...

Education matters to but you can't teach some people to think long term until they grow up with enough stability to make long term thinking a reasonable undertaking so that's a generation away at a minimum.

White children are taught to thrive. Black children are taught to survive. (Paraphrased from what, I can't recall.)

Kids only get one shot at a good education. If their environment precludes that from happening, perhaps quality state boarding schools are the answer, paid for by Jeff Bezos et al.

Mandating separating children from their families?

 

[TV and credit cards]

End the war on drugs. Drugs won. Erase nonviolent drug crime records. Enact extremely stringent anti corruption laws. Restructure markets to eliminate short term investments. Tax the fuck out of income over a moderately high level, throw away the cash if we can't agree what to spend it on. Make a guaranteed jobs program administered by the sba. Make various categories of police misconduct felony offenses including falsifying an official report, lying to cover for another cop, planting evidence, unprovoked violence, etc. Tax even more obove the cutoff and if the effect leaves any billionaires because we couldn't figure out how to tax right, guillotine for billionaires. I dunno, those are off the cuff but...

Education matters to but you can't teach some people to think long term until they grow up with enough stability to make long term thinking a reasonable undertaking so that's a generation away at a minimum.

White children are taught to thrive. Black children are taught to survive. (Paraphrased from what, I can't recall.)

Kids only get one shot at a good education. If their environment precludes that from happening, perhaps quality state boarding schools are the answer, paid for by Jeff Bezos et al.

Mandating separating children from their families?

Not mandating but making available. Moving toward mandating if the situation warrants.

 

[Bomb#20]

if the effect leaves any billionaires because we couldn't figure out how to tax right, guillotine for billionaires. ...

Education matters to but you can't teach some people to think long term

You've proven your point.

 

[Worldtraveller]

if the effect leaves any billionaires because we couldn't figure out how to tax right, guillotine for billionaires. ...

Education matters to but you can't teach some people to think long term

You've proven your point.

I know you think you're clever with your selective quoting, but 1) you're not, and 2) you're wrong.

 

[Harry Bosch]

End the war on drugs. Drugs won. Erase nonviolent drug crime records. Enact extremely stringent anti corruption laws. Restructure markets to eliminate short term investments. Tax the fuck out of income over a moderately high level, throw away the cash if we can't agree what to spend it on. Make a guaranteed jobs program administered by the sba. Make various categories of police misconduct felony offenses including falsifying an official report, lying to cover for another cop, planting evidence, unprovoked violence, etc. Tax even more obove the cutoff and if the effect leaves any billionaires because we couldn't figure out how to tax right, guillotine for billionaires. I dunno, those are off the cuff but...

Education matters to but you can't teach some people to think long term until they grow up with enough stability to make long term thinking a reasonable undertaking so that's a generation away at a minimum.

If you really wanted to help the poor, simply increase the minimum wage, and decrease out of wedlock babies and drug use. On the reservation, drug use and alcohol has created devastation.

Restructure markets to eliminate short term investments. What does that mean? How would restructuring markets lead to eliminating short term investments.

A jobs program administrated by the SBA? Why? The SBA is having a hard time today doing their primary job: guarantying loans and subordinate loans. But they are mostly ex-bankers who don't know how to administer jobs.

Guillotine the billionaires. Gotcha. I didn't realize that you weren't being serious.

 

[Trausti]

What Matters for Student Achievement

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Poverty is a huge problem in minority neighborhoods so let's start there. Decreasing poverty will help both poor black and poor white citizens.

1. Increase the minimum wage and then adjust it yearly based on inflation. This will help the black community the most, but poor white folks will also benefit from this.

2. Provide some form of UHC. It doesn't have to be single payer. There are many ways to provide UHC. We just need to work towards the goal of having all citizens having access to medical care.

3. Teach nutrition in the schools, starting at a very young age. Obesity is a huge problem in poorer communities, especially in areas that are primarily made up of minorities. Perhaps if chidden are taught good basic nutritions and if school lunches are more nutritious, children will establish better eating habits, leading to better health outcomes.

4.Improve training, salaries and educational requirements for policing and hold police responsible for inappropriate actions.

5. Provide programs that encourage more minorities to go into teaching and medicine. We need more black medical providers. From what I've read and been told, there are a lot of black men who don't feel comfortable with a white provider. I'm happy to say that there are far more black nurses then there were when I started my own career, but there are still too few black physicians and NPs. Recruit more. Racism is a fairly big problem in health care. Black patients are often treated differently from white patients. That needs to change.

6. Decriminalize recreational drugs. I read yesterday that about 50% of current inmates are there for drug charges. That's insane. Why are we locking up people for using drugs which are often less harmful than ETOH. While statistically, just as many white people use illegal recreational drugs as black people, black folks are arrested and jailed at a much higher rate than their white peers. The entire prison system needs a drastic overhaul. That is an area where racism is very obvious. If drugs were decriminalized or made legal, this would save a huge amount of public funding, some of which could be used to provide rehab to those who want help, needle exchange programs, safe spaces to use hard core drugs for those who don't feel they can be helped etc.

And, while I totally agree that there is systemic racism in many areas of the US, it helps to also elevate poor white communities. Perhaps I feel that way because I live in city where mixed race relationships and children are extremely common. Lift up those who are in poverty so that poor white folks won't feel neglected. Attacking poverty lifts people of all ethnic backgrounds.

But, one of the best ways to help decrease racism is to encourage people to have integrated schools, work places and neighborhoods. I live in a neighborhood that has become far more integrated over the past few years. I love it. I think it helps white people who may never have had much contact with black people get to know them and understand that we are all human and our cultural differences should be appreciated, not condemned. It also helps black people realize that white people aren't all hateful racists and we welcome diversity into our neighborhoods. Yes. I'm being idealistic, but one needs to be idealistic if we think we can tackle systemic racism.

Those are ideas that will help all poor people, but which parts are there to reduce inequality? If it is worse being poor and black than being poor and white, how has this helped the fact that Black Americans face inequality. Is it enough to say, “you’re still unequal, but you’re better off than you were before; you’re still peddling uphill and someone has put your brakes on, but at least you have a bike now, right?”

Helping poor people will reduce inequality because there are more poor blacks than poor whites (at least on a percentage basis.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How do we address the large disparity in outcomes between Asian-Americans and every other group? How do we tackle Asian Privilege?

Why should we?

Shouldn't we look at where students excel, wherever those students are, and try to foster this in other students?

Parenting. Good luck fixing that in other students.

 

[ruby sparks]

I generally agree with most of the suggestions made. I am going to throw one more in which I do think would also help. I think that black people, their communities and their representatives should accept more of their own responsibility and do more to both acknowledge and address that blacks have not been doing enough to help themselves out of their problems. How much of the issues are due to this I would not like to make a call on, but I do think it would be helpful to include it. I do realise it's already happening, and I seem to recall Obama for instance (and others from the black demographic) saying it a few times, but imo it doesn't get enough of a public airing and is generally de-emphasised. I think all things considered, there is in the current climate a bit too much blaming history, white people, and their racism. I think the above could be a useful part of the mix and it might allow both 'sides', and more moderates, to edge towards a middle and towards more compromise and agreement about things that can be done to improve matters.

In addition to this, the disadvantaged generally, of all backgrounds, could do with realising to a greater extent that they have a lot of very large common causes. And so I think this spirit of cooperation should be encouraged, in the face of what I sometimes think are efforts to divide subsections of them from each other.

I have the feeling that many poor and only moderately well-off white people have been suckered into thinking Trump cares about their best interests, and that one of these is competing with their black and other non-white neighbours and fellow citizens.

 

[ruby sparks]

I think it's a big part of the problem and it's part of why I want to shift the focus from race to circumstances.

I have no problem with you or anyone doing that, in fact it's something I broadly agree with you about, but imo while doing it you largely discount the unfairnesses that are part of the overall picture. And I don't think that's helpful in either analysing the problems or trying to cure them.

Think of it as a sort of potential-trade off. Blacks concede that they need to do more for themselves and you also concede that at the same time they have more of a valid case for complaining.

 

[Harry Bosch]

If you really wanted to help the poor, simply increase the minimum wage, and decrease out of wedlock babies and drug use. On the reservation, drug use and alcohol has created devastation.

Minimum wage isn't the issue because the big deal is hours worked.

The others--got a magic wand in your pocket?

True. My main point was to point out that releasing all the drug felons isn't going to help the neighborhoods that they return to. Sending drugged out mom or dad back into a house struggling to feed four or five kids isn't going to help anyone. However, clearly the war against illegal drugs hasn't worked either...

 

[ruby sparks]

clearly the war against illegal drugs hasn't worked either...

And if, as is often suggested, and for which there does seem to be some evidence, the specific drugs that were clamped down on, the way the users were disproportionately targeted, and the severity of the penalties and incarcerations that resulted, were effectively biased against blacks rather than being race-neutral, then that would be a rather large and ugly underlying problem of itself, and one which might have made things worse rather than better overall, because of disproportionate knock-on effects.

 

[Harry Bosch]

clearly the war against illegal drugs hasn't worked either...

And if, as is often suggested, and for which there does seem to be some evidence, the specific drugs that were clamped down on, the way the users were disproportionately targeted, and the severity of the incarcerations that resulted, were effectively biased against blacks rather than being race-neutral, then that would be a rather large and ugly underlying problem of itself, and one which might have made things worse rather than better overall.

Yes, I agree with you. We clamp down more on drug use common in black communities. Not to change the subject, but I've actually seen alcohol destroy more families than drug use. We volunteered as foster family and helpers; wow by far the toughest job a person can get. Believe me, no one does it for the money. But most kids were in bad homes due to alcohol. Meth use tended to be less in number, but is absolutely horrific on families.

 

[ruby sparks]

I've actually alcohol destroy more families than drug use.

Indeed. You're talking to someone who lives on an island where alcoholism is a national pastime and who has several alcoholics in his extended family. People here, and not just here, do not even tend to think of alcohol as being a drug in the first place.

We volunteered as foster family and helpers; wow by far the toughest job a person can get. Believe me, no one does it for the money.

Kudos to you. Definitely.

 

[Jarhyn]

Poverty is a huge problem in minority neighborhoods so let's start there. Decreasing poverty will help both poor black and poor white citizens.

1. Increase the minimum wage and then adjust it yearly based on inflation. This will help the black community the most, but poor white folks will also benefit from this.

2. Provide some form of UHC. It doesn't have to be single payer. There are many ways to provide UHC. We just need to work towards the goal of having all citizens having access to medical care.

3. Teach nutrition in the schools, starting at a very young age. Obesity is a huge problem in poorer communities, especially in areas that are primarily made up of minorities. Perhaps if chidden are taught good basic nutritions and if school lunches are more nutritious, children will establish better eating habits, leading to better health outcomes.

4.Improve training, salaries and educational requirements for policing and hold police responsible for inappropriate actions.

5. Provide programs that encourage more minorities to go into teaching and medicine. We need more black medical providers. From what I've read and been told, there are a lot of black men who don't feel comfortable with a white provider. I'm happy to say that there are far more black nurses then there were when I started my own career, but there are still too few black physicians and NPs. Recruit more. Racism is a fairly big problem in health care. Black patients are often treated differently from white patients. That needs to change.

6. Decriminalize recreational drugs. I read yesterday that about 50% of current inmates are there for drug charges. That's insane. Why are we locking up people for using drugs which are often less harmful than ETOH. While statistically, just as many white people use illegal recreational drugs as black people, black folks are arrested and jailed at a much higher rate than their white peers. The entire prison system needs a drastic overhaul. That is an area where racism is very obvious. If drugs were decriminalized or made legal, this would save a huge amount of public funding, some of which could be used to provide rehab to those who want help, needle exchange programs, safe spaces to use hard core drugs for those who don't feel they can be helped etc.

And, while I totally agree that there is systemic racism in many areas of the US, it helps to also elevate poor white communities. Perhaps I feel that way because I live in city where mixed race relationships and children are extremely common. Lift up those who are in poverty so that poor white folks won't feel neglected. Attacking poverty lifts people of all ethnic backgrounds.

But, one of the best ways to help decrease racism is to encourage people to have integrated schools, work places and neighborhoods. I live in a neighborhood that has become far more integrated over the past few years. I love it. I think it helps white people who may never have had much contact with black people get to know them and understand that we are all human and our cultural differences should be appreciated, not condemned. It also helps black people realize that white people aren't all hateful racists and we welcome diversity into our neighborhoods. Yes. I'm being idealistic, but one needs to be idealistic if we think we can tackle systemic racism.

An important part of #6, when you are poor and dealing drugs, you need volume of sales. You can't do what most wealthier people do and just deal to a couple of friends. And when you are poor and dealing that way, you end up dealing to poor people who can't afford volume anyway.

As a result, most wealthier people who deal drugs (almost exclusively white dealers) don't end up being forced to expose themselves the way most subsistence (almost universally people of color) drug dealers do. There is even a barrier to entry to dealing drugs well, and a barrier to exit for subsistence dealing: the open network distro model also brings in organized gang hierarchy, protection models, territory concerns, and visibility, and if you want to go closed-cell, you need to know how to use technology skillfully.

The war on drugs has been the single largest tool for the systematic and continued suppression of advancement of people of colors. Even educational issues flow from this problem with schools being unsafe due to gang activity and blowing their budget on enforcement.

Regulate, tax, spend the money on continuing education and social assistance in poor communities, and we will see drastic changes in favor of communities of color.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think it's a big part of the problem and it's part of why I want to shift the focus from race to circumstances.

I have no problem with you or anyone doing that, in fact it's something I broadly agree with you about, but imo while doing it you largely discount the unfairnesses that are part of the overall picture. And I don't think that's helpful in either analysing the problems or trying to cure them.

Think of it as a sort of potential-trade off. Blacks concede that they need to do more for themselves and you also concede that at the same time they have more of a valid case for complaining.

Complain about actual wrongdoing, don't complain about a supposed overall bias. The latter does far more harm than good because it provides a way out of addressing the internal issues.