England headed for A Caliphate

[Bomb#20]

Why do you say my math is poor? The native Brits are not reproducing to even keep their population as it is. The muslim population produces far more babies than the natives and coupled with mass migration from predominantly muslim countries, at some point soon, the muslims become the majority. This is already the case in many cities in England.

Yay!!! The Great Replacement Theory.

Why do you call TSwizzle's contention this? The Great Replacement Theory is a conspiracy theory, to the effect that "white European populations are deliberately being replaced by non-white peoples". TS didn't allege any conspiracy; he didn't say it's deliberate; he didn't claim there's any "complicity or cooperation of 'replacist' elites" committing "genocide by substitution". All he did was point out what is in fact going to happen if prevailing trends continue. That's not a conspiracy; that's the null hypothesis! Anybody who proposes that it isn't going to happen has the burden to explain what change he thinks is going to prevent it.

As for whether the projected outcome actually is deliberate, this looks like a job for Hanlon's Razor.

 

[Bomb#20]

And people fleeing Muslim countries are mostly trying to escape from Muslim fundamentalists.

Do you have evidence for that? An awful lot of people fleeing Muslim countries are trying to escape violence and poverty. What makes you think those trying to escape fundamentalism outnumber them?

Do you have any evidence for that?

Are you actually experiencing doubt that my claim was correct? I asked bilby if he had evidence for his controversial and implausible claim. You're asking me if I have evidence for my Captain Obvious claim. I said it not for its news value but to remind bilby of what he already knows and to draw his attention to the fact that it undermines the plausibility of his own claim.

Violence

Poverty

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Why do you say my math is poor? The native Brits are not reproducing to even keep their population as it is. The muslim population produces far more babies than the natives and coupled with mass migration from predominantly muslim countries, at some point soon, the muslims become the majority. This is already the case in many cities in England.

Yay!!! The Great Replacement Theory.

Why do you call TSwizzle's contention this? The Great Replacement Theory is a conspiracy theory, to the effect that "white European populations are deliberately being replaced by non-white peoples". TS didn't allege any conspiracy; he didn't say it's deliberate; he didn't claim there's any "complicity or cooperation of 'replacist' elites" committing "genocide by substitution". All he did was point out what is in fact going to happen if prevailing trends continue. That's not a conspiracy; that's the null hypothesis! Anybody who proposes that it isn't going to happen has the burden to explain what change he thinks is going to prevent it.

As for whether the projected outcome actually is deliberate, this looks like a job for Hanlon's Razor.

Indeed. Tswizzle is just following the anti-immigrant playbook that has been around for well over a century.

They are different, therefore untrustworthy. Diversification is dangerous!

 

[ZiprHead]

And people fleeing Muslim countries are mostly trying to escape from Muslim fundamentalists.

Do you have evidence for that? An awful lot of people fleeing Muslim countries are trying to escape violence and poverty. What makes you think those trying to escape fundamentalism outnumber them?

Do you have any evidence for that?

Are you actually experiencing doubt that my claim was correct? I asked bilby if he had evidence for his controversial and implausible claim. You're asking me if I have evidence for my Captain Obvious claim. I said it not for its news value but to remind bilby of what he already knows and to draw his attention to the fact that it undermines the plausibility of his own claim.

Violence

Poverty

Those things are not caused by Muslim fundamentalism??? Even just a little bit?

 

[laughing dog]

Why do you say my math is poor? The native Brits are not reproducing to even keep their population as it is. The muslim population produces far more babies than the natives and coupled with mass migration from predominantly muslim countries, at some point soon, the muslims become the majority. This is already the case in many cities in England.

Yay!!! The Great Replacement Theory.

Why do you call TSwizzle's contention this? The Great Replacement Theory is a conspiracy theory, to the effect that "white European populations are deliberately being replaced by non-white peoples". TS didn't allege any conspiracy; he didn't say it's deliberate; he didn't claim there's any "complicity or cooperation of 'replacist' elites" committing "genocide by substitution". All he did was point out what is in fact going to happen if prevailing trends continue. That's not a conspiracy; that's the null hypothesis! Anybody who proposes that it isn't going to happen has the burden to explain what change he thinks is going to prevent it.

As for whether the projected outcome actually is deliberate, this looks like a job for Hanlon's Razor.

Thank you for the pedantic defense of TSwizzle’s fears. His theory is driven by the premise that the future generations arising Muslim parents in a liberal pluralistic society are necessarily Muslims to the same degree as their ancestors. Unless there is a specific Muslim gene, his fears are driven by bigotry not arithmetic.

 

[Elixir]

Thank you for the pedantic defense of TSwizzle’s fears.

I don’t think B20 was defending Swiz’s fears, just pointing out that what he fears is simply what is happening.

His theory is driven by the premise that the future generations arising Muslim parents in a liberal pluralistic society are necessarily Muslims to the same degree as their ancestors.

Nah, it’s just that they’re not like him. The extent to which the sons of muzzies he fears resemble the muzzies of his nightmares, doesn’t matter. They’re still “other” regardless of what brand of “other” they are. Xenophobia isn’t particular.

 

[TSwizzle]

West Midlands Police told the Mail it has launched an investigation into possible racially/religiously aggravated public order offences. The vigil at the Imam Reza Cultural Centre saw attendees hold signs in support of the regime and wave Iranian flags. It was attended by convicted terrorist Shahid Butt, 60, who is standing in the May local elections in the Sparkhill area of the city. Butt was convicted of terrorism in Yemen in 1999 after plotting bomb attacks on Western targets including the British consulate in Aden, an Anglican church, and a Swiss-owned hotel. He was jailed for five years. Controversial lawyer Akhmed Yakoob, who previously stood as a candidate for the West Midlands mayoral election, was also at the vigil. Signs held by pro-Iran activists read 'We stand with Iran' and 'You can kill a man, but you can't kill an ideology'. Others declared 'Stop Trump's wars' and described exiled Iranian crown prince Reza Pahlavi as an 'Iranian Zionist Puppet'.

Members of Ahlul-Bayt Islamic societies (AbSocs), which are student-led groups affiliated with the Shia sect of Islam in Iran, reportedly joined Wednesday's vigil. Various branches including in London, Manchester, Edinburgh and Leeds have publicly mourned the death of Khamenei on social media.

A spokesperson for Campaign Against Antisemitism told the Daily Mail the footage of the 'mob' is 'distressing' and shows 'just how normalised extremist rhetoric and incitement to violence are becoming in our country'. They added: 'The presence of past and present political candidates at this flag burning is a grave sign of creeping sectarianism in our politics.' Highlighting Butt's presence and his conviction for terrorism, they continued: 'These developments should worry us all about the direction of our society.

Daily Mail

England and indeed the UK is going to be a totally different place in a few years. It already is different from say, 30 years ago but a more fundamental change to its politics is coming. Quite a contrast from when Blair was prime minister and the milquetoast Starmer.

 

[Elixir]

England and indeed the UK is going to be a totally different place in a few years.

Yeah, like the climate. The uncomfortable fact which causes you to struggle, is that ALL things change constantly. You only notice when the rate of change accelerates.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

West Midlands Police told the Mail it has launched an investigation into possible racially/religiously aggravated public order offences. The vigil at the Imam Reza Cultural Centre saw attendees hold signs in support of the regime and wave Iranian flags. It was attended by convicted terrorist Shahid Butt, 60, who is standing in the May local elections in the Sparkhill area of the city. Butt was convicted of terrorism in Yemen in 1999 after plotting bomb attacks on Western targets including the British consulate in Aden, an Anglican church, and a Swiss-owned hotel. He was jailed for five years. Controversial lawyer Akhmed Yakoob, who previously stood as a candidate for the West Midlands mayoral election, was also at the vigil. Signs held by pro-Iran activists read 'We stand with Iran' and 'You can kill a man, but you can't kill an ideology'. Others declared 'Stop Trump's wars' and described exiled Iranian crown prince Reza Pahlavi as an 'Iranian Zionist Puppet'.

Members of Ahlul-Bayt Islamic societies (AbSocs), which are student-led groups affiliated with the Shia sect of Islam in Iran, reportedly joined Wednesday's vigil. Various branches including in London, Manchester, Edinburgh and Leeds have publicly mourned the death of Khamenei on social media.

A spokesperson for Campaign Against Antisemitism told the Daily Mail the footage of the 'mob' is 'distressing' and shows 'just how normalised extremist rhetoric and incitement to violence are becoming in our country'. They added: 'The presence of past and present political candidates at this flag burning is a grave sign of creeping sectarianism in our politics.' Highlighting Butt's presence and his conviction for terrorism, they continued: 'These developments should worry us all about the direction of our society.

Daily Mail

England and indeed the UK is going to be a totally different place in a few years. It already is different from say, 30 years ago but a more fundamental change to its politics is coming. Quite a contrast from when Blair was prime minister and the milquetoast Starmer.

Why do you think that culture never changes? Baffling.

 

[TSwizzle]

West Midlands Police told the Mail it has launched an investigation into possible racially/religiously aggravated public order offences. The vigil at the Imam Reza Cultural Centre saw attendees hold signs in support of the regime and wave Iranian flags. It was attended by convicted terrorist Shahid Butt, 60, who is standing in the May local elections in the Sparkhill area of the city. Butt was convicted of terrorism in Yemen in 1999 after plotting bomb attacks on Western targets including the British consulate in Aden, an Anglican church, and a Swiss-owned hotel. He was jailed for five years. Controversial lawyer Akhmed Yakoob, who previously stood as a candidate for the West Midlands mayoral election, was also at the vigil. Signs held by pro-Iran activists read 'We stand with Iran' and 'You can kill a man, but you can't kill an ideology'. Others declared 'Stop Trump's wars' and described exiled Iranian crown prince Reza Pahlavi as an 'Iranian Zionist Puppet'.

Members of Ahlul-Bayt Islamic societies (AbSocs), which are student-led groups affiliated with the Shia sect of Islam in Iran, reportedly joined Wednesday's vigil. Various branches including in London, Manchester, Edinburgh and Leeds have publicly mourned the death of Khamenei on social media.

A spokesperson for Campaign Against Antisemitism told the Daily Mail the footage of the 'mob' is 'distressing' and shows 'just how normalised extremist rhetoric and incitement to violence are becoming in our country'. They added: 'The presence of past and present political candidates at this flag burning is a grave sign of creeping sectarianism in our politics.' Highlighting Butt's presence and his conviction for terrorism, they continued: 'These developments should worry us all about the direction of our society.

Daily Mail

England and indeed the UK is going to be a totally different place in a few years. It already is different from say, 30 years ago but a more fundamental change to its politics is coming. Quite a contrast from when Blair was prime minister and the milquetoast Starmer.

Why do you think that culture never changes? Baffling.

I didn't say culture. I said politics. I bolded it for you.

But nobody is baffled why you (and others) do such things. It's easier to do that than confront what is actually happening.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

West Midlands Police told the Mail it has launched an investigation into possible racially/religiously aggravated public order offences. The vigil at the Imam Reza Cultural Centre saw attendees hold signs in support of the regime and wave Iranian flags. It was attended by convicted terrorist Shahid Butt, 60, who is standing in the May local elections in the Sparkhill area of the city. Butt was convicted of terrorism in Yemen in 1999 after plotting bomb attacks on Western targets including the British consulate in Aden, an Anglican church, and a Swiss-owned hotel. He was jailed for five years. Controversial lawyer Akhmed Yakoob, who previously stood as a candidate for the West Midlands mayoral election, was also at the vigil. Signs held by pro-Iran activists read 'We stand with Iran' and 'You can kill a man, but you can't kill an ideology'. Others declared 'Stop Trump's wars' and described exiled Iranian crown prince Reza Pahlavi as an 'Iranian Zionist Puppet'.

Members of Ahlul-Bayt Islamic societies (AbSocs), which are student-led groups affiliated with the Shia sect of Islam in Iran, reportedly joined Wednesday's vigil. Various branches including in London, Manchester, Edinburgh and Leeds have publicly mourned the death of Khamenei on social media.

A spokesperson for Campaign Against Antisemitism told the Daily Mail the footage of the 'mob' is 'distressing' and shows 'just how normalised extremist rhetoric and incitement to violence are becoming in our country'. They added: 'The presence of past and present political candidates at this flag burning is a grave sign of creeping sectarianism in our politics.' Highlighting Butt's presence and his conviction for terrorism, they continued: 'These developments should worry us all about the direction of our society.

Daily Mail

England and indeed the UK is going to be a totally different place in a few years. It already is different from say, 30 years ago but a more fundamental change to its politics is coming. Quite a contrast from when Blair was prime minister and the milquetoast Starmer.

Why do you think that culture never changes? Baffling.

I didn't say culture. I said politics. I bolded it for you.

But nobody is baffled why you (and others) do such things. It's easier to do that than confront what is actually happening.

Oh behave. There is no reason for you to get so uppity over change being a natural thing to occur in politics and culture.

One could argue that you are sharing manipulative news media that is overexaggerating the "normalization" of extremism, but that'll probably trigger you too. You get so upset, so quickly.

 

[Bomb#20]

And people fleeing Muslim countries are mostly trying to escape from Muslim fundamentalists.

Do you have evidence for that? An awful lot of people fleeing Muslim countries are trying to escape violence and poverty. What makes you think those trying to escape fundamentalism outnumber them?

Do you have any evidence for that?

Are you actually experiencing doubt that my claim was correct? I asked bilby if he had evidence for his controversial and implausible claim. You're asking me if I have evidence for my Captain Obvious claim. I said it not for its news value but to remind bilby of what he already knows and to draw his attention to the fact that it undermines the plausibility of his own claim.

Violence

Poverty

Those things are not caused by Muslim fundamentalism??? Even just a little bit?

Certainly they are. Much more than a little bit. What's your point? The claim of bilby's I challenged was that they're mostly trying to escape from Muslim fundamentalists -- he didn't claim their arrival was ultimately caused by Muslim fundamentalists, which would have been a routine uncontroversial claim, quite unlike the extraordinary claim he actually made. The two are not at all the same claim -- one might as well argue an antelope is running from hunger when it's running from a lion, on account of the lion's charge having been caused by hunger.

The distinction is not at all insignificant. Bilby didn't make his implausible claim in a vacuum -- he made it in support of a narrative to the effect that arriving Muslims can be counted on not to turn British society in a fundamentalist direction, on account of their supposed opposition to fundamentalism. And that would be a weighty argument if fundamentalism were really what they were fleeing. But if they are merely fleeing the consequences of fundamentalism rather than fundamentalism itself, then it's a weightless argument based on a false narrative -- a narrative that simply sweeps under the rug the reality that people are often unaware of or unimpressed by the fact that their own cultures are precisely what caused the misery they are fleeing, and are therefore not motivated to correct the faults in the way those cultures trained them to think. For every Ayaan Hirsi Ali who comes bearing a clear picture of how the religion of her upbringing ruined her society and a determination to change her own thinking and deconvert from her childhood indoctrination, there are dozens who instead accept comforting stories laying the blame for their societies' ruination at some other door, and consequently come convinced that their own thinking does not need to change. It's human nature to accept comforting stories, evidence be damned.

 

[ZiprHead]

Wow.

Muslim fundamentalism is causing the problems making people want to leave but they aren't actually fleeing muslim fundamentalism.

Splitting hairs much?

 

[Bomb#20]

Wow.

Muslim fundamentalism is causing the problems making people want to leave but they aren't actually fleeing muslim fundamentalism.

Correct. Why do you have an issue with that? It's not rocket science. Stop focusing on how appealing your rhetoric is and apply logic.

"Fleeing X" and "Fleeing Y which is caused by X" are two completely different things. Hunger is causing the problem making the antelope want to leave but it isn't actually fleeing hunger. It's fleeing a lion. If David Attenborough showed you footage of a lion chasing an antelope, would you actually for realsies describe the situation as "An antelope is fleeing hunger."? If a friend told you she saw a nature documentary about antelopes fleeing hunger, would you actually for realsies visualize antelopes being chased by lions? Wouldn't you visualize starving antelopes slowly plodding away from a drought-stricken waste in search of thriving grassland?

Splitting hairs much?

Dude! No! This is not hair-splitting! I figured you'd think it was; that's why I added the whole second paragraph explaining what impact the distinction has on the overall argument. Bilby is implying that immigrants wouldn't bring the cause of their suffering with them. And the reply is, yes, of course they would, if they value it and don't know it's what's causing their suffering. Do you think in 1507 when Spanish sailors on a ship with a smallpox outbreak went ashore on Hispaniola, they made their sick shipmates stay behind on the boat?

 

[Bomb#20]

Why do you call TSwizzle's contention this? The Great Replacement Theory is a conspiracy theory, to the effect that "white European populations are deliberately being replaced by non-white peoples". TS didn't allege any conspiracy; he didn't say it's deliberate; he didn't claim there's any "complicity or cooperation of 'replacist' elites" committing "genocide by substitution". All he did was point out what is in fact going to happen if prevailing trends continue. That's not a conspiracy; that's the null hypothesis! Anybody who proposes that it isn't going to happen has the burden to explain what change he thinks is going to prevent it.

As for whether the projected outcome actually is deliberate, this looks like a job for Hanlon's Razor.

Indeed. Tswizzle is just following the anti-immigrant playbook that has been around for well over a century.

They are different, therefore untrustworthy. Diversification is dangerous!

That is not TS's argument. Why don't you address what he actually said instead of arguing against something different somebody else said a hundred years ago?

If you want to argue that previous fears of immigration proved unfounded so this one will too, why don't you try showing that the previous waves of migrants into Britain had the same dangerous-looking characteristics as the current wave? Or do you want us to just take for granted that it's impossible for one group of migrants to actually be collectively dangerous unless all groups of migrants actually are collectively dangerous?

 

[Bomb#20]

... TS didn't allege any conspiracy; he didn't say it's deliberate; he didn't claim there's any "complicity or cooperation of 'replacist' elites" committing "genocide by substitution". All he did was point out what is in fact going to happen if prevailing trends continue. That's not a conspiracy; that's the null hypothesis! Anybody who proposes that it isn't going to happen has the burden to explain what change he thinks is going to prevent it.

As for whether the projected outcome actually is deliberate, this looks like a job for Hanlon's Razor.

Thank you for the pedantic defense of TSwizzle’s fears. His theory is driven by the premise that the future generations arising Muslim parents in a liberal pluralistic society are necessarily Muslims to the same degree as their ancestors. Unless there is a specific Muslim gene, his fears are driven by bigotry not arithmetic.

Good god, not this already refuted nonsense again. Which part of

"You say that as though genetics is the only mechanism by which having parents with characteristic X could make a person be X. Religions are contagious mental illnesses and most people retain the religion of their parents. Retention rates vary from religion to religion and Islam is at the extreme end of the range -- estimates I've seen for the number of Muslim children in Britain who don't deconvert range from 90% to 98%. So yes, having Muslim parents makes a person a Muslim, with higher probability than having a mother with rubella makes a baby get rubella. Muslims are producing babies and migrating fast enough that even a 10% loss per generation won't stop Muslims from becoming the majority."​

didn't you understand? TSwizzle already indicated that whether future generations will think like their ancestors is an empirical question, not one based on some a priori premise about necessity.

The children of Moslems will integrate into becoming atheists just like the other children of recent generations.

Doesn't seem to be true for muslims so far.

 

[Bomb#20]

Thank you for the pedantic defense of TSwizzle’s fears.

I don’t think B20 was defending Swiz’s fears, just pointing out that what he fears is simply what is happening.

His theory is driven by the premise that the future generations arising Muslim parents in a liberal pluralistic society are necessarily Muslims to the same degree as their ancestors.

Nah, it’s just that they’re not like him. The extent to which the sons of muzzies he fears resemble the muzzies of his nightmares, doesn’t matter. They’re still “other” regardless of what brand of “other” they are. Xenophobia isn’t particular.

That's an ad hominem argument.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I think the UK's love for woke is over. I don't think we need to worry about this anymore. I think what we should probably worry about now is the anti-woke reaction. I think its going to be extreme.

 

[laughing dog]

... TS didn't allege any conspiracy; he didn't say it's deliberate; he didn't claim there's any "complicity or cooperation of 'replacist' elites" committing "genocide by substitution". All he did was point out what is in fact going to happen if prevailing trends continue. That's not a conspiracy; that's the null hypothesis! Anybody who proposes that it isn't going to happen has the burden to explain what change he thinks is going to prevent it.

As for whether the projected outcome actually is deliberate, this looks like a job for Hanlon's Razor.

Thank you for the pedantic defense of TSwizzle’s fears. His theory is driven by the premise that the future generations arising Muslim parents in a liberal pluralistic society are necessarily Muslims to the same degree as their ancestors. Unless there is a specific Muslim gene, his fears are driven by bigotry not arithmetic.

Good god, not this already refuted nonsense again. Which part of

"You say that as though genetics is the only mechanism by which having parents with characteristic X could make a person be X. Religions are contagious mental illnesses and most people retain the religion of their parents. Retention rates vary from religion to religion and Islam is at the extreme end of the range -- estimates I've seen for the number of Muslim children in Britain who don't deconvert range from 90% to 98%. So yes, having Muslim parents makes a person a Muslim, with higher probability than having a mother with rubella makes a baby get rubella. Muslims are producing babies and migrating fast enough that even a 10% loss per generation won't stop Muslims from becoming the majority."​

didn't you understand? TSwizzle already indicated that whether future generations will think like their ancestors is an empirical question, not one based on some a priori premise about necessity.

The children of Moslems will integrate into becoming atheists just like the other children of recent generations.

Doesn't seem to be true for muslims so far.

The fact TSwizzle thinks Muslims will become a majority is based on an a priori premise. It is also an a priori premise that being Muslim necessarily means a specific role for Islam in society.

Of course it is an empirical question. Empirical questions require empirical information from disinterested sources, not vague assertions about what some flaming bigot thinks they’ve seen.

 

[Elixir]

what we should probably worry about now is the anti-woke reaction. I think its going to be extreme.

Going to be? 30% or more of Americans are so scared of woke they'd elect a career criminal rapist fraud for president if they thought it would protect them from the fearsome woke monster.