Epstein, Kiddies, And Trump. Oh, My

[Loren Pechtel]

You could, but then it wouldn't be there in the record proving it happened when you say it did.

Ideally, there would be a scheme that would allow a user to put their own selected public certificate in the camera, and that acts as the hardware ID as it gets signed by the camera's internal certificate, or maybe it has to be signed by the manufacturer with their user registration validation certificate, and the camera only allows uploads that check against the shipped public certificate?

You will sign this image!

 

[Jarhyn]

You could, but then it wouldn't be there in the record proving it happened when you say it did.

Ideally, there would be a scheme that would allow a user to put their own selected public certificate in the camera, and that acts as the hardware ID as it gets signed by the camera's internal certificate, or maybe it has to be signed by the manufacturer with their user registration validation certificate, and the camera only allows uploads that check against the shipped public certificate?

You will sign this image!

I mean, it's more like 'you better sign this image or nobody will believe it ever happened!'

 

[ZiprHead]

You could, but then it wouldn't be there in the record proving it happened when you say it did.

Ideally, there would be a scheme that would allow a user to put their own selected public certificate in the camera, and that acts as the hardware ID as it gets signed by the camera's internal certificate, or maybe it has to be signed by the manufacturer with their user registration validation certificate, and the camera only allows uploads that check against the shipped public certificate?

You will sign this image!

I mean, it's more like 'you better sign this image or nobody will believe it ever happened!'

I have very little understanding of how certificates work but wouldn't that require the camera makers to create server space to store the public certificates? Massive server storage space.

 

[Jarhyn]

You could, but then it wouldn't be there in the record proving it happened when you say it did.

Ideally, there would be a scheme that would allow a user to put their own selected public certificate in the camera, and that acts as the hardware ID as it gets signed by the camera's internal certificate, or maybe it has to be signed by the manufacturer with their user registration validation certificate, and the camera only allows uploads that check against the shipped public certificate?

You will sign this image!

I mean, it's more like 'you better sign this image or nobody will believe it ever happened!'

I have very little understanding of how certificates work but wouldn't that require the camera makers to create server space to store the public certificates? Massive server storage space.

Not really massive space. One person's certificate can be stored in about 4KB for the most secure certificates today. That's 4M
GB for a million and 4TB for a billion.

All the world can have a public key stored together on a single 4 terabyte drive.

All of every Bitcoin transaction ever processed fits on a consumer hard drive comfortably.

Cryptographic infrastructure can be really fucking cheap, and highly distributed, too.

The harder part is that this validation takes extra work and electricity.

We're talking a lot of work getting done, between signing new images, distributing the signing ledger, and so on, whose only function is really to restore some small shred of trust that we aren't looking at mere artistic license.

Someone is going to have to aggregate and publish that, and they're going to want to be paid for it, and everyone else will want to get in on that, and then it sure starts looking like a cryptocurrency that's going to trade on historical validation and consensus.

 

[ZiprHead]

Thanks for that explanation.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You could, but then it wouldn't be there in the record proving it happened when you say it did.

Ideally, there would be a scheme that would allow a user to put their own selected public certificate in the camera, and that acts as the hardware ID as it gets signed by the camera's internal certificate, or maybe it has to be signed by the manufacturer with their user registration validation certificate, and the camera only allows uploads that check against the shipped public certificate?

You will sign this image!

I mean, it's more like 'you better sign this image or nobody will believe it ever happened!'

I have very little understanding of how certificates work but wouldn't that require the camera makers to create server space to store the public certificates? Massive server storage space.

First, I was specifically trying to avoid having any central repository that could be compromised.

Second, back of the envelope: Nikon sells a bit under 1M cameras/year. At maximum size a key is 256 bytes in addition to whatever bytes are needed to identify it. Simple .csv file, serial number,base 64 encode of the key

I haven't looked at all Nikon serial numbers, I doubt any exceed 20 digits. 256 for the key, 342 after the base 64 encode. 3 characters of overhead. 365 characters per camera. Every month Nikon uploads a magnet-compatible torrent of what they produced that month, it's in the 40 megabyte range. In reality it's going to be a lot smaller because they aren't going to put such stuff in everything the build. My hard drive from the 90s shivers in terror. My DSLR writes more than that every time I push the button.

 

[Jarhyn]

You could, but then it wouldn't be there in the record proving it happened when you say it did.

Ideally, there would be a scheme that would allow a user to put their own selected public certificate in the camera, and that acts as the hardware ID as it gets signed by the camera's internal certificate, or maybe it has to be signed by the manufacturer with their user registration validation certificate, and the camera only allows uploads that check against the shipped public certificate?

You will sign this image!

I mean, it's more like 'you better sign this image or nobody will believe it ever happened!'

I have very little understanding of how certificates work but wouldn't that require the camera makers to create server space to store the public certificates? Massive server storage space.

First, I was specifically trying to avoid having any central repository that could be compromised.

Second, back of the envelope: Nikon sells a bit under 1M cameras/year. At maximum size a key is 256 bytes in addition to whatever bytes are needed to identify it. Simple .csv file, serial number,base 64 encode of the key

I haven't looked at all Nikon serial numbers, I doubt any exceed 20 digits. 256 for the key, 342 after the base 64 encode. 3 characters of overhead. 365 characters per camera. Every month Nikon uploads a magnet-compatible torrent of what they produced that month, it's in the 40 megabyte range. In reality it's going to be a lot smaller because they aren't going to put such stuff in everything the build. My hard drive from the 90s shivers in terror. My DSLR writes more than that every time I push the button.

Good keys are up to 4KB in size for highly secure applications. Most user keys for buying drugs end up being around 1k or 2k

 

[Loren Pechtel]

All the world can have a public key stored together on a single 4 terabyte drive.

All of every Bitcoin transaction ever processed fits on a consumer hard drive comfortably.

Cryptographic infrastructure can be really fucking cheap, and highly distributed, too.

The harder part is that this validation takes extra work and electricity.

We're talking a lot of work getting done, between signing new images, distributing the signing ledger, and so on, whose only function is really to restore some small shred of trust that we aren't looking at mere artistic license.

Someone is going to have to aggregate and publish that, and they're going to want to be paid for it, and everyone else will want to get in on that, and then it sure starts looking like a cryptocurrency that's going to trade on historical validation and consensus.

I was trying to avoid the compute overhead of blockchain. Since I'm not trying to update the data I don't think it's needed.

 

[unapologetic]

a 16 year old with a 15 year old should be allowed.

You've heard of 'juvenile court', right? Where such cercumstances are taken into account. Where it might only get a slap on the wrist, And records are often expunged after age 18.

 

[Jarhyn]

Pedophilia is...

...In common parlance and for all intents and purposes with respect to moral and philosophical discussions seeking to have sex with someone who lacks the real world experiences and time that are absolutely necessary for assuming that they are capable of consenting to that sex.

Adults apologizing in bad faith about 18 year olds when they are really trying to keep a legal door open for their old-ass selves is abhorrent.

 

[steve_bank]

Pop quiz on sexual impropriety in government

1. Which president got a blow job in the Oval Office and and said oral sex was not really sex?
2. Which governor of Arkansas had the state police bring women to him?
3. Which president had a stream of women in the WH and screwed Marylin Monroe?
4. Which president had a member of the Hollywood Rat Pack as a pimp procuring women?

Spoiler

1. Clinton
2 Clinton
3 JFK
4 JFK

List of federal political sex scandals in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Don't forget FDR.

 

[ZiprHead]

Pop quiz on sexual impropriety in government

1. Which president got a blow job in the Oval Office and and said oral sex was not really sex?
2. Which governor of Arkansas had the state police bring women to him?
3. Which president had a stream of women in the WH and screwed Marylin Monroe?
4. Which president had a member of the Hollywood Rat Pack as a pimp procuring women?

Spoiler

1. Clinton
2 Clinton
3 JFK
4 JFK

List of federal political sex scandals in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Don't forget FDR.

This sounds like pedophile apologia.

 

[steve_bank]

Pop quiz on sexual impropriety in government

1. Which president got a blow job in the Oval Office and and said oral sex was not really sex?
2. Which governor of Arkansas had the state police bring women to him?
3. Which president had a stream of women in the WH and screwed Marylin Monroe?
4. Which president had a member of the Hollywood Rat Pack as a pimp procuring women?

Spoiler

1. Clinton
2 Clinton
3 JFK
4 JFK

List of federal political sex scandals in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Don't forget FDR.

This sounds like pedophile apologia.

An expected response. I would have supported the death penalty for Epstein. And for any such sexual predator.

The Wiki link is probably the tip of the iceberg.

I am no fan of Trump, but singling out Trump and ignoring the history of sex and government on both the left and right is ignorance and simplistic.

Power breeds corruption.

It is the obsession by the left to try and defame Trump that is making it more difficult for the left. It backfired.

 

[Jarhyn]

Who cares if it's a -D or an -R?!? Lock the pedophiles up.

Was Clinton a diddler? Lock him up!

Was Trump a diddler? Lock him up!

It's not rocket science.

It's just... Of these folks may have been a John for the scheme... The other was a trafficker/facilitator whose biggest gripe with Epstein is that Epstein recruited one of the underage "masseuses" Trump was getting sex diaper changes "massages" from, from his sketchy 'resort'.

One of these is more urgent than the other.

 

[ZiprHead]

Pop quiz on sexual impropriety in government

1. Which president got a blow job in the Oval Office and and said oral sex was not really sex?
2. Which governor of Arkansas had the state police bring women to him?
3. Which president had a stream of women in the WH and screwed Marylin Monroe?
4. Which president had a member of the Hollywood Rat Pack as a pimp procuring women?

Spoiler

1. Clinton
2 Clinton
3 JFK
4 JFK

List of federal political sex scandals in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Don't forget FDR.

This sounds like pedophile apologia.

An expected response. I would have supported the death penalty for Epstein. And for any such sexual predator.

The Wiki link is probably the tip of the iceberg.

I am no fan of Trump, but singling out Trump and ignoring the history of sex and government on both the left and right is ignorance and simplistic.

Power breeds corruption.

It is the obsession by the left to try and defame Trump that is making it more difficult for the left. It backfired.

But you're comparing adult consented sex to pedophilia and rape. How else are we supposed to take it?

 

[Jarhyn]

Like, the fucker literally walked in on naked teen girls and bragged about it.

And this is the mindset of the person who ran that pageant.

The pageants are clearly a vehicle for child sexual exploitation, and likely many layers deep.

"Ooh, someone philandered a woman under a desk" vs "oh, someone coordinated multiple layers of child exploitation multiple times across many years".

IF Clinton was a client to that... Fuck him.

Trump was a goddamn procurer, a slaver. Of children. For sex.

 

[thebeave]

Pop quiz on sexual impropriety in government

1. Which president got a blow job in the Oval Office and and said oral sex was not really sex?
2. Which governor of Arkansas had the state police bring women to him?
3. Which president had a stream of women in the WH and screwed Marylin Monroe?
4. Which president had a member of the Hollywood Rat Pack as a pimp procuring women?

Spoiler

1. Clinton
2 Clinton
3 JFK
4 JFK

List of federal political sex scandals in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Don't forget FDR.

That Wiki article was like a trip down memory lane. I had forgotten all about a lot of those incidents...some going back to my childhood days. And the 100+ year old ones just show nothing much about human nature and behavior has changed.

What is it about politicians that they can't keep their dick in their pants? Couldn't these idiots just buy a Playboy at the 7-11, rub one out and get on with their life like normal men do?

 

[TomC]

I am no fan of Trump, but singling out Trump and ignoring the history of sex and government on both the left and right is ignorance and simplistic.

This is dumb.
JFK was from a different America. Back then, media and officialdom protected such misbehavior.
Clinton was impeached for screwing around. Ugly behavior, from that standpoint Clinton was a douchebag. But it was nothing like ignored, it was a huge deal amongst the Congress.

Here's what makes the current situation so hypocritical. Trump has a long history of philandering. It was major news for many years before the conservative Christian electorate decided that Trump was their champion. The party of Family Values nominated him and he got massive support from the Christian voters who were appalled by Clinton getting a blow job. So much so that Congress voted to impeach Clinton.
Fuck that.
Tom

 

[thebeave]

Like, the fucker literally walked in on naked teen girls and bragged about it.

And this is the mindset of the person who ran that pageant.

The pageants are clearly a vehicle for child sexual exploitation, and likely many layers deep.

"Ooh, someone philandered a woman under a desk" vs "oh, someone coordinated multiple layers of child exploitation multiple times across many years".

IF Clinton was a client to that... Fuck him.

Trump was a goddamn procurer, a slaver. Of children. For sex.

Adult women, yes, teen girls...no.

Trump Admitted Entering Changing Rooms of Beauty Pageant Contestants?

Though there are some girls from the Miss Teen USA pagaent who claim he did come in.

 

[Jarhyn]

Dude, there were literal charges brought by someone who was clearly witness tampered and bullied into suicide after Trump hired her, she got pulled away to Epstein's sex island, they raped her together, and then cut her loose.

You could either recognize that regardless of what the courts will do about it, that Trump is was a procurer for a child sex slavery operation, or you can paint yourself with an amazingly bad light.

Epstien had an amazingly long and close relationship with Trump, a history of allegations raised by various women across many years of his rapey tendencies, and multiple depositions made on that front. He circled Trump's name meaningfully in his little black book.

We know what Epstein was about.

Trump definitely knew.

Quit apologizing for it.