• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Eric Cantor loses to Tea Party.

Right wing radio says it is possible that Democrats turned it in favor for the challenger, citing much higher turnout in '14 than '12, about 40% higher. Cantor would be such an unlikely candidate to even try such a thing. It isn't like this was close right before the election. They probably never even bothered to poll this one.
 
The Chronicle compares the two (intellectual elite) candidates for Cantor's seat in

Prof v. Prof.

http://chronicle.com/article/Prof-Versus-Prof-How-2/147043/?cid=pm&utm_source=pm&utm_medium=en

By defeating Eric I. Cantor, the majority leader of the U.S. House of Representatives, in a Republican primary on Tuesday, David A. Brat will now face his faculty colleague, Jack Trammell, a Democrat, in the general election to represent the Seventh District of Virginia in Congress.

Both men teach at Randolph-Macon College, a private, liberal-arts college in Ashland, Va., just north of Richmond. The small college, with about 1,200 full-time students, touts its faculty as being focused on teaching and its average class size as 16, "with no large lecture classes and all courses taught by faculty."
 
This is good in every way. It gets more crazies out into the spotlight so that the official GOP position is that they're fucking nuts and it forces the rest of the GOP to swing hard to the right and isolate themselves even further from the majority of the country.

Sure, it allows the Dems to cozy up even further with the corporate interests who openly bribe them at the expense of everyone else due to the "Ha ha, what the fuck are you sushi-eating, tree-hugging bitches going to do about? Vote for our opponents?" factor, but I'm a rich white guy so that doesn't actually put me out any.

But you have to worry about being too cozy to corporate interests as well. After all, they're part of the establishment, and Cantor wasn't noted for his distance from them either.

[...]

Wait. After years of arguing for tax breaks, deregulation, and the ability to spend unlimited amounts of money bribing elected officials, now you complain about corporate influence? For fuck's sake, you and every other rightist argued and voted and sometimes even donated money to make this happen, and now that you've proven successful, you're going to complain about your own success? What did you think would be the result of everything you argued for?

Obligatory: what's so great about communism? Why do you hate America? Why do you hate our freedom? [/conservolibertarian]

It was the Democrats who voted overwhelmingly for the TARP bail-out after Republicans had defeated it. It was Democrats who voted overwhelmingly to keep the Export-Import Bank when Republicans tried to abolish it. Of course we need to de-regulate because it is big business that writes the regulations, and they do so in their favor. But I'll give the Democrats some credit here. It was the Carter Administration that finally abolished the Interstate Commerce Commission. It was the Carter Administration that de-regulated the Savings & Loans. It was the Carter Administration that ended price controls on oil. And it was Ted Kennedy who led the fight to de-regulate the airlines. Those were all very good things.

The ICC was created way back in 1887 to regulate the railroads, and the first thing it did to protect the consumer was to INCREASE the price of railroad fares. It hasn't changed much since. When Ted Kennedy got his de-regulation of the airlines bill through Congress, airline fares plummeted. Almost all the airlines in operation back then have since gone bankrupt. They couldn't compete when they had to lower their fares. Government regulation is costing the consumer bundles.

Even if I accept your claim that TARP was mostly or entirely the Democrats fault (pure nonsense, but we can ignore that for now), are you saying that the massive influence corporations have over our government is entirely due to TARP? You can't possibly be that out of touch with reality.

You and all the other rightists argued passionately for policies that would amplify corporate influence over government. For the past several decades, you and the vast majority of other rightists voted, wrote letters to the editor, donated money to political campaigns, volunteered for rightist causes, and spewed bumper sticker arguments at the water cooler in order to promote policies that made increased corporate influence over government inevitable.

You deregulated. You defunded regulatory agencies. You insisted that we allow unlimited political bribes (excuse me, "campaign contributions") made in secret. You insisted that corporations be allowed to donate money to political campaigns, even in states where such a thing was illegal. You demanded lots of tax cuts so that very wealthy people and large corporations would have more money to corrupt the political process. You insisted that we had to do these things in order to be "more free."

So now you have been successful. All the things you wanted have come to pass, but we should not accuse you of having any part in increasing corporate influence over government because... TARP? Seriously?

TARP is a symptom, not the disease. It is not what caused what we see today, it is the inevitable result of all the things you demanded for the past several decades.

Why would you work so hard for so long to make something happen, then complain when it happens? Your response makes no sense.
 
The Chronicle compares the two (intellectual elite) candidates for Cantor's seat in

Prof v. Prof.

http://chronicle.com/article/Prof-Versus-Prof-How-2/147043/?cid=pm&utm_source=pm&utm_medium=en

By defeating Eric I. Cantor, the majority leader of the U.S. House of Representatives, in a Republican primary on Tuesday, David A. Brat will now face his faculty colleague, Jack Trammell, a Democrat, in the general election to represent the Seventh District of Virginia in Congress.

Both men teach at Randolph-Macon College, a private, liberal-arts college in Ashland, Va., just north of Richmond. The small college, with about 1,200 full-time students, touts its faculty as being focused on teaching and its average class size as 16, "with no large lecture classes and all courses taught by faculty."

i.e. they're not good enough to get published
 
As raunchy as Cantor was, this guy is even worse. We just seem to be waltzing between unpleasant and unworkable ideologies in this district. It should be noted that this election had a record low turnout in the district. It means the Republicans should be a good target here for a contested election....if only the Democrats had something to offer.

I often joke that the main debate in the Republican party seems to be whether the nation should roll the clock back to the 1950's, the gilded age or the middle ages.

Cantor seemed to be a 1950's kind of guy whereas Brat leans toward the gilded age but is begining to appreciate the point of view of the pro-middle age people.
 
The Chronicle compares the two (intellectual elite) candidates for Cantor's seat in

Prof v. Prof.

http://chronicle.com/article/Prof-Versus-Prof-How-2/147043/?cid=pm&utm_source=pm&utm_medium=en

By defeating Eric I. Cantor, the majority leader of the U.S. House of Representatives, in a Republican primary on Tuesday, David A. Brat will now face his faculty colleague, Jack Trammell, a Democrat, in the general election to represent the Seventh District of Virginia in Congress.

Both men teach at Randolph-Macon College, a private, liberal-arts college in Ashland, Va., just north of Richmond. The small college, with about 1,200 full-time students, touts its faculty as being focused on teaching and its average class size as 16, "with no large lecture classes and all courses taught by faculty."

i.e. they're not good enough to get published
You need to be careful there. It may be the case that their teaching load makes performing high quality research very difficult.

From NPR and the papers here, it seemed that immigration reform was the killer issue against Cantor with Brat claiming Cantor was soft on immigration.
 

From what I read, polls showed voters of both parties were favorably inclined to immigration reform in that district. The media has focused on this idea, but it doesn't seem to be very accurate. Brat accused Cantor of favoring amnesty, but I don't think opposition to immigration reform was a big part of his campaign.
 

I don't agree with everything he said in this article, but most of what he said was quite intelligent. It's Mother Jones that has it all wrong. You can't spend money that you don't have. If you think you're going to just print the money and the solve the problem, you're making matters worse. The debt ceiling shouldn't be raised. It's Obama, but also all those other gutless politicians who won't address the problem. So then senior citizens (like me) are going to see drastically lower cuts in our social security payments when the chickens come home to roost.
 
This is bad news for incumbents, but I would suggest that it is especially bad news for Democrat incumbents.
this really stuck out to me.
why on earth would you think that?

Well, for one thing, Cantor was an incumbent. People are fed up with the way things are going in Washington, and I think that is a good reason why Brat won. Brat also thinks that, by the way. For another, Democrats are the incumbent party in Washington. At least at the presidential level. So voters will strike back more heavily against Democrats. They nearly always do in off-year elections anyway. Cantor's defeat, against overwhelming odds in his favor, merely highlights the public mood.
 
The slow but hardheaded demise of the once proud party of Goldwater is dying and transforming. What is amazing is that the GOP and Faux News alternative universe of reality claimed up to that night that the polls showing Cantor winning by a comfortable margin. If this is not deja vu all over agin in the party of no and hate, see good ole Mitt and Karl Rove on election night, I do not know what is then.

As screwed up as us Democrats are on message and direction the GOP and republican party is even more screwed up. Can anyone say civil war? And to throw in some good ole southern loving good ole Cantor must remember the infamous words of Dick Morris when he claimed that it would be Mitt in a landslide. Heh look at the upside Mr Cantor. You can always get a $$$ 6 figure lobbyist job that most of Washington's trash goes for after being kicked out of the game. I mean you only lost by 9k votes!

Yep noting like winning on the American Taliban platform hating on Mexicans and illegals. Is this what is called "throwing of the red meat to the choir" called? Ha ha ha another republican had to resign. Yet his replacement is even a worse racist asshole! I guess the Whigs once thought that they were so cool and mainstream. Well it must of been when the ship started to capsize that they got the message; a lot of people think that they suck!

Peace

Pegasus

I agree that the GOP is transforming, but if you think the Democrats are going to have good year, I think you should think that idea all over again. This is going to be a bad year for the Democrats, and it's probably going to be their worst year since 1994. They won't lose the House, but that's only because they don't control it now.
 
The Chronicle compares the two (intellectual elite) candidates for Cantor's seat in

Prof v. Prof.

http://chronicle.com/article/Prof-Versus-Prof-How-2/147043/?cid=pm&utm_source=pm&utm_medium=en

By defeating Eric I. Cantor, the majority leader of the U.S. House of Representatives, in a Republican primary on Tuesday, David A. Brat will now face his faculty colleague, Jack Trammell, a Democrat, in the general election to represent the Seventh District of Virginia in Congress.

Both men teach at Randolph-Macon College, a private, liberal-arts college in Ashland, Va., just north of Richmond. The small college, with about 1,200 full-time students, touts its faculty as being focused on teaching and its average class size as 16, "with no large lecture classes and all courses taught by faculty."

Imagine that! The faculty actually teaches classes! Obviously, this is a real Podunk school. They don't even have teacher's aides.
 
This is bad news for incumbents, but I would suggest that it is especially bad news for Democrat incumbents.
this really stuck out to me.
why on earth would you think that?

Well, for one thing, Cantor was an incumbent. People are fed up with the way things are going in Washington, and I think that is a good reason why Brat won. Brat also thinks that, by the way. For another, Democrats are the incumbent party in Washington. At least at the presidential level. So voters will strike back more heavily against Democrats. They nearly always do in off-year elections anyway. Cantor's defeat, against overwhelming odds in his favor, merely highlights the public mood.

I was listening to former Virginia Republican Rep Tom Davis on the radio today, and his take was not that Cantor was an incumbent, but that as Majority Leader he had to take national politics into consideration when making choices. He had to not only corral the disparate factions of the GOP, but potentially negotiate and compromise with Democrats. This didn't fly in his district, which has swung far to the right. They don't want their representative in Congress to compromise, negotiate, or even (apparently) work for the State of Virginia. They're certainly angry at Cantor, but failed to realize that they're not replacing a Majority Leader with a new Majority Leader. Brat will be at the bottom of the power structure in DC. His influence - if he has any at all - will be a tiny fraction of Cantor's, and his district and state will suffer for it.

If Virginia's Congressional delegation were a football team, the voters just fired the star quarterback and are going to send in a rookie who has never played a quarter of pro ball in his life. Good luck with that.
 
This is good in every way. It gets more crazies out into the spotlight so that the official GOP position is that they're fucking nuts and it forces the rest of the GOP to swing hard to the right and isolate themselves even further from the majority of the country.

Sure, it allows the Dems to cozy up even further with the corporate interests who openly bribe them at the expense of everyone else due to the "Ha ha, what the fuck are you sushi-eating, tree-hugging bitches going to do about? Vote for our opponents?" factor, but I'm a rich white guy so that doesn't actually put me out any.

But you have to worry about being too cozy to corporate interests as well. After all, they're part of the establishment, and Cantor wasn't noted for his distance from them either.

[...]

Wait. After years of arguing for tax breaks, deregulation, and the ability to spend unlimited amounts of money bribing elected officials, now you complain about corporate influence? For fuck's sake, you and every other rightist argued and voted and sometimes even donated money to make this happen, and now that you've proven successful, you're going to complain about your own success? What did you think would be the result of everything you argued for?

Obligatory: what's so great about communism? Why do you hate America? Why do you hate our freedom? [/conservolibertarian]

It was the Democrats who voted overwhelmingly for the TARP bail-out after Republicans had defeated it. It was Democrats who voted overwhelmingly to keep the Export-Import Bank when Republicans tried to abolish it. Of course we need to de-regulate because it is big business that writes the regulations, and they do so in their favor. But I'll give the Democrats some credit here. It was the Carter Administration that finally abolished the Interstate Commerce Commission. It was the Carter Administration that de-regulated the Savings & Loans. It was the Carter Administration that ended price controls on oil. And it was Ted Kennedy who led the fight to de-regulate the airlines. Those were all very good things.

The ICC was created way back in 1887 to regulate the railroads, and the first thing it did to protect the consumer was to INCREASE the price of railroad fares. It hasn't changed much since. When Ted Kennedy got his de-regulation of the airlines bill through Congress, airline fares plummeted. Almost all the airlines in operation back then have since gone bankrupt. They couldn't compete when they had to lower their fares. Government regulation is costing the consumer bundles.

Even if I accept your claim that TARP was mostly or entirely the Democrats fault (pure nonsense, but we can ignore that for now), are you saying that the massive influence corporations have over our government is entirely due to TARP? You can't possibly be that out of touch with reality.

You and all the other rightists argued passionately for policies that would amplify corporate influence over government. For the past several decades, you and the vast majority of other rightists voted, wrote letters to the editor, donated money to political campaigns, volunteered for rightist causes, and spewed bumper sticker arguments at the water cooler in order to promote policies that made increased corporate influence over government inevitable.

You deregulated. You defunded regulatory agencies. You insisted that we allow unlimited political bribes (excuse me, "campaign contributions") made in secret. You insisted that corporations be allowed to donate money to political campaigns, even in states where such a thing was illegal. You demanded lots of tax cuts so that very wealthy people and large corporations would have more money to corrupt the political process. You insisted that we had to do these things in order to be "more free."

So now you have been successful. All the things you wanted have come to pass, but we should not accuse you of having any part in increasing corporate influence over government because... TARP? Seriously?

TARP is a symptom, not the disease. It is not what caused what we see today, it is the inevitable result of all the things you demanded for the past several decades.

Why would you work so hard for so long to make something happen, then complain when it happens? Your response makes no sense.

First of all, I didn't campaign for any of those things although I do think that campaign finance reform has done more harm than good. Secondly, I don't acquit Republicans of responsibility for much of the corporate influence. It was Bush who asked for TARP, but without Democrat votes, it wouldn't have passed, and it was Obama who lobbied those Democrats to switch their votes. And yes, TARP is a symptom (but also a cause of many of our current economic problems). What I did point out is that where there has been opposition to corporate influence and corporate welfare, it has come mostly from Republicans and a great many of those Republicans are what the media refers to as the "Tea Party."

Cantor was definitely NOT Tea Party. Although his voting record was a tad more conservative than Boehner's, he was a corporate guy all the way. Appearing on Fox News, Brat said that the GOP needed to quit worrying about Wall Street and start worrying about Main Street. Cantor was a Wall Street guy. Ironically, on the same page as Brat's interview on Politico, was this article about Cantor:

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/...ll-street-eric-cantor-loss-107696.html?hp=l20

"Wall Street Loses Ally with Eric Cantor Loss."

Many lobbyists on K Street whose clients include major financial institutions consider Cantor a go to member in leadership on policy debates, including overhauling the mortgage finance market, extending the government backstop for terrorism insurance, how Wall Street should be taxed and flood insurance.

He was “one of the few remaining House Republicans who understood the complicated and nuanced issues facing the financial services community,” one industry source said Tuesday following news of Cantor’s defeat.

Sorry, but I don't vote to send representatives to Congress to be understanding with Wall Street.

Jeb Hensarling of Texas is Chairman of the House Financial Services Committee:

The Texas Republican likes to tout that he is pro-free markets not pro-business.

For Wall Street this cuts both ways — as his chairmanship has shown. When it comes to rolling back regulations, he is an ally. But when it comes to keeping some government support in place for the housing and insurance markets, Hensarling has little patience for the industry’s complaints that his policies are going too far.

Over the years Cantor has been able to rely on the financial services industry to fill his campaign coffers, with his defense of how certain investment managers are taxed being particularly popular on Wall Street.

Hensarling is not a Tea Party Republican, but he does express the sentiments of the Tea Party and many Republicans who are more conservative than Cantor. He is pro-free market but not pro-business. Indeed, you cannot be both pro-free market and pro-business. Businesses must make it on their own, and if they can't, they should go bankrupt.

I don't know why liberals have such a hard time figuring this out. If I say that a certain tax on business is too high because it prevents business investment, that doesn't mean that I'm for that business. It means I'm for more business investment because that helps the economy and therefore everyone. But liberals have no problem defending an insane Federal Reserve policy of zero interest rates which ONLY benefits big business and does enormous harm to the economy.
 
As raunchy as Cantor was, this guy is even worse. We just seem to be waltzing between unpleasant and unworkable ideologies in this district. It should be noted that this election had a record low turnout in the district. It means the Republicans should be a good target here for a contested election....if only the Democrats had something to offer.

I often joke that the main debate in the Republican party seems to be whether the nation should roll the clock back to the 1950's, the gilded age or the middle ages.

Cantor seemed to be a 1950's kind of guy whereas Brat leans toward the gilded age but is begining to appreciate the point of view of the pro-middle age people.

Actually, Trammel, the Democrat candidate and Assistant Professor of Sociology, is a highly published author, but most of his works are fiction. He's soon to publish a novel about vampires.
 
The Chronicle compares the two (intellectual elite) candidates for Cantor's seat in

Prof v. Prof.

http://chronicle.com/article/Prof-Versus-Prof-How-2/147043/?cid=pm&utm_source=pm&utm_medium=en

By defeating Eric I. Cantor, the majority leader of the U.S. House of Representatives, in a Republican primary on Tuesday, David A. Brat will now face his faculty colleague, Jack Trammell, a Democrat, in the general election to represent the Seventh District of Virginia in Congress.

Both men teach at Randolph-Macon College, a private, liberal-arts college in Ashland, Va., just north of Richmond. The small college, with about 1,200 full-time students, touts its faculty as being focused on teaching and its average class size as 16, "with no large lecture classes and all courses taught by faculty."

i.e. they're not good enough to get published
You need to be careful there. It may be the case that their teaching load makes performing high quality research very difficult.

From NPR and the papers here, it seemed that immigration reform was the killer issue against Cantor with Brat claiming Cantor was soft on immigration.

That's the media spin but it doesn't seem to be well supported. Polls show that even Republicans in that district were favorable to immigration reform. Brat criticized Cantor for favoring amnesty, but that did not appear to be one his major campaign themes.

A wider reading to the available material suggests these reasons why Cantor lost.

1. His Congressional staff was often unhelpful, and occasionally perhaps not even terribly polite, to constituents needing help.
2. His attack ads on Brat were ineffective and probably helped Brat by boosting his name identification. Brat himself said that he thought the ads were funny.
3. Tea Party volunteers played a key role in giving him grass-roots support and door-to-door campaigning.
4. Talk radio, particularly Laura Ingraham, Glenn Beck, and Mark Levin, gave his campaign a big boost and may have been particularly helpful in raising the small amount of funds that he had. Big money Tea Party groups gave him no support at all.
5. Laura Ingraham, in particular, helped his campaign by appearing personally to campaign for him and thereby giving him local publicity that he couldn't afford to buy.
 
Back
Top Bottom