EU Elections Thread

[bilby]

So the EU votes over the next few days (UK and Netherlands on May 22, Eire on May 23, Latvia, Malta, Slovakia, and the French Overseas Territories on May 24, Czech Republic on May 23 and 24, and the rest of the EU nations on May 25).

All 751 seats are up for grabs; and the number of parties involved is huge, as each member state has its own set - although many of these are members of trans-national alliances split along approximate ideological lines.

The anti-EU parties are tipped to do well this time out, after the economic woes that started just before the last election in 2009, and continue to this day; Many of these parties are strongly nationalistic, and in some cases almost openly fascistic. The moderate right, moderate left, and green groupings are also big players, but it seems that even in the EU, many people are simply not that interested by EU elections.

This disinterest appears to be evident here too - I am a little surprised to find no thread for this election in the Politics forum less than 3 hours before the polls open - in stark contrast to the interest shown in the 2016 US elections, some 2+ years out from the event.

Does anyone care? Does anyone understand, the parties, the personalities, the policies, or the principals that are at stake in this election? If so, could they please explain them as simply as possible for the rest of us?

We are talking about the government of over 500,000,000 people - 1.6 times the population of the USA, and about 7% of the population of the world. Surely this is worthy of some discussion?

 

[dystopian]

Speaking from the Netherlands here;

I don't particularly care too much. I'm pretty pro-EU, but like most Dutch people I don't really feel my vote for the EU elections matters much. The Netherlands had, I believe, the lowest turnout last time. EU politics is just too far removed from the various people in their respective countries; a lot of people probably aren't even aware the elections are happening, and if they are they won't really know who to vote for or why. I think a lot of this has to do with the unwieldy system in place. Rather than casting a true European vote, we're just casting votes for local people who nobody's ever heard of to go to the EU parliament. And no matter what we do, because of our relatively small population, we only get less than 4% of the total seats. Of course, if we WERE allowed to cast a true European vote, we'd be even more overwhelmed since there's literally more than 16000 candidates across 953 parties to choose from. Even nationally though, it's still overwhelming. I just grabbed the candidate list I'm allowed to vote on, and there's literally 19 parties I could choose from, the average of which has around 20-22 people to vote for, and the biggest of which has 47! Some of these parties I've never heard of, others are national parties but then I don't know fuck about the people and parties they're allied with in Europe itself; or their european policies besides the meaningless soundbites we hear in the media from time to time.

It also doesn't help that our national politics in regards to the EU have become incredibly polarized over the last few years, with notorious blowhards like Geert Wilders just rambling on, ruining any chance of a meaningful discussion. When I read comments on Dutch news articles sometimes by people who support him, I just completely lose my faith in humanity.

Just for those interested, here's the list of parties I, as a dutch citizen, can vote for in the EU elections:

CDA (Christian Democrats) - apparently a member of the European People's Party; a christian democrat conservative alliance.

PVV (Party for Freedom) - Anti-European Xenophobes led by notorious Geert Wilders.

PVDA (Labor) - part of the Party of European Socialists

VVD (Conservative-Liberals)

D66 (Social-Liberal) - Part of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats

Groenlinks (Greens) - Part of the Party of European Socialists

SP (Socialists)

Christian-Union/SGP (Social Christians/Fundamentalists) - Part of the European People's Party

Article 50 (anti Europe)

IQ, the Rights & Duties party (random one member party run by a conspiracy nut whose party program literally suggests 9/11 was an inside job)

Pirate party

50PLUS (senior citizens party)

The Greens (First I've heard of them, but apparently they've been around and support a Universal Basic Income)

Anti EU (Yet another anti EU party)

Liberal Democratic Party (Another party I haven't heard of, never managed to get enough votes to get a seat anywhere)

JESUS LIVES (It's actually in all caps on my candidate list, I'm not kidding.); the guy who founded this party got some minor media attention a couple of years back when he painted "Jesus Saves" in giant letters on the sloped roof of his farm despite the local town council telling him to change the size/coloring because of local rules, which he refused to do. Pretty sure he won't get anywhere near enough votes to get a seat.

ikkiesvooreerlijk.eu (Ichooseforefair.eu); yes, someone founded a party and named it after their url. Apparently they support a complete dissolution of nationstates in favor of a single European superstate.

Party for the Animals; though this is clearly a one issue party, they've actually managed to get 2 seats in the Dutch parliament. They ALMOST got a seat in the EU parliament last time.

Aandacht en Eenvoud (Attention & Simplicity?); another party I haven't heard anything about. Their website looks like it was made in the 1990's. Based on their program, I have no idea what the hell they want.

 

[dystopian]

I doubt I'll go and vote today; if I were to vote though, I'd probably cast a vote on D66 or the Pirate party. D66's principle candidate is actually one of only 3 candidates for the EU parliament whose name I knew; I also followed her on twitter for a while. She supports privacy rights and is an honorary associate of the National Secular Society.

 

[Hickdive]

I suspect (and hope) that the turn out in Scotland will be bigger than normal this year in order to subject the SNP to a sound drubbing at the polls as a filip to the NO campaign for the independence referendum in September.

In short, as a sort of opinion poll.

 

[EricK]

I went to vote this morning on the way to work. I passed two old ladies who I believe had just come from voting (but might just have been strolling nearby). There were 3 people in the voting station, but all of them were working there. One other person came in to vote while I was in there.

So all in all, from that tiny sample, I am not predicting a massive turnout. Note, we also have local elections today, so even people who weren't interested in the EU would have had a reason to vote.

Most of the parties on the European ballot seemed to be anti-Europe - UKIP being the most famous, but lots of little ones I'd never heard of.

 

[dystopian]

Most of the parties on the European ballot seemed to be anti-Europe - UKIP being the most famous, but lots of little ones I'd never heard of.

I'm curious if the reasons for there being so many little anti-europe parties in the UK are the same as those for us:

Here, most of those anti-eu parties are actually just run-off from the PVV. The PVV is led by Geert Wilders; a loud racist xenophobe whose rhetoric and style attracts a certain shall we say... less than intelligent/civilized audience. This leads to natural instability within the party, especially when combined with the fact that wilders is the only actual member of the party and everyone else is basically just put on the various candicacy lists by him.

So people either get kicked out because A) it turns out that white thrash doesn't get less thrashy when it enters politics, B) people get disillusioned with the way wilders runs things like a dictatorship and try to revolt only to be kicked out, or C) people get disillusioned with the way wilders runs things like a dictatorship, and leave voluntarily.

And then some of these start their own; usually shortlived; parties.

Is it similar with those parties in the UK?

 

[Jokodo]

The reason there's no discussion is that there'd have to be 28 separate discussions. The set of parties eligible to be elected is a different one in every country, and even when some of them are part of the same European Alliances, the dynamics and the contents of their programmes differ from country to country.

Our options:
ÖVP Christian Democrats
SPÖ Social Democrats
FPÖ "Freedom" Party, right wing and anti-EU
Greens
BZÖ Alliance for the Future of Austria (a split from the Freedom Party, unlikely to make the cut this time)
NEOS (New Austria), a new liberal formation, made their debut in the national elections last year at around 5%, now polled at close to 10%
REKOS "Reform Conservatives" - another rightwing splinter group, their main candidate is an ex-FPÖ, ex-BZÖ member, also supported by Christian fundamentalist and monarchist splinter groups.
Europa Anders - an alliance of Pirates, Communists, and the Platform "der Wandel" ("Change"), polled at around 3% so more likely to make the cut (threshold of 4%) than either of REKOS and BZÖ but probably still a miss.
EUSTOP - a single issue anti-EU platform consisting of two initiatives that have between them reached around 0.01% at national elections

polls indicate a close race between ÖVP and SPÖ, with FPÖ closely following them on the third place, and again a close race between the Greens and NEOS for the 4th place, and ANDERS might or might not go in, though more likely not. There's some hope that FPÖ will score lower than predicted: Given that there electorate is anti-EU, they might be less inclined to go to the ballots.

I will vote. I retain my right to secrecy, but I'm certainly not going to vote any of ÖVP, FPÖ, BZÖ, REKOS, NEOS, or EUSTOP. REKOS actually holds the distinction of getting the lowest score from me in Voting Advice Applications.

- - - Updated - - -

Most of the parties on the European ballot seemed to be anti-Europe - UKIP being the most famous, but lots of little ones I'd never heard of.

I'm curious if the reasons for there being so many little anti-europe parties in the UK are the same as those for us:

Here, most of those anti-eu parties are actually just run-off from the PVV. The PVV is led by Geert Wilders; a loud racist xenophobe whose rhetoric and style attracts a certain shall we say... less than intelligent/civilized audience. This leads to natural instability within the party, especially when combined with the fact that wilders is the only actual member of the party and everyone else is basically just put on the various candicacy lists by him.

So people either get kicked out because A) it turns out that white thrash doesn't get less thrashy when it enters politics, B) people get disillusioned with the way wilders runs things like a dictatorship and try to revolt only to be kicked out, or C) people get disillusioned with the way wilders runs things like a dictatorship, and leave voluntarily.

And then some of these start their own; usually shortlived; parties.

Is it similar with those parties in the UK?

I don't think it's comparable. In the UK, UKIP which actively tries to paint itself as a single-issue anti-EU party (the alternative would be to recognise that they're a copy of the BNP) is set to become the largest party.

 

[dystopian]

I don't think it's comparable. In the UK, UKIP which actively tries to paint itself as a single-issue anti-EU party (the alternative would be to recognise that they're a copy of the BNP) is set to become the largest party.

That's not what I was asking. The PVV is also set to become the biggest party (or 2nd biggest); I was asking if those smaller anti-EU parties were just run-off from UKIP in the same way that the smaller dutch anti-eu parties are run-off from the PVV.

 

[Togo]

Not exactly. UKIP is partly a result of the implosion of the British National Party (BNP). They're an anti-EU party rather than a right wing-nationalist party (in theory anyway), and have picked up many of the BNPs old supporters as well as some of their own. The other thing that helps them is that Conservative party (traditionally but not consistently anti-Europe) have been in coalition with the Liberal Democrats (the most pro-Europe major party), something which has annoyed both their supporter bases. So because it's 'just' a European election, both conservative and Liberal voters are likely to vote elsewhere, or not turn up, to punish their own part for their misdeeds. This is particularly true of the Conservatives, who are particularly feeling the bite of UKIP into their supporter base.

Whether that will last into a 'real' national election is another matter.

Then there is the role of the EU in the recent financial crisis. The tendency on the continent is to blame financial speculators, of which the majority live and work in London. This has led to a great many laws being passed which pass responsibility for regulation of those people from London to Brussels (From the UK to Europe), a tendency to rally around the Euro, and to spend European money defending the euro as a currency. Since the UK isn't in the euro, and has been feeling a bit left out of the whole European solidarity thing, Europe's unpopularity is on the rise in the UK. More people oppose it, and those that don't are unlikely to turn to vote.

The elephant in the room is the so-called democratic deficit. In theory, people can vote for whomever they want, but in practice the power blocks are so large that they are rarely held to account in the same way as a national or regional election. Meanwhile the Parliament keeps on trying to transfer powers to itself from other branches of the EU, which means weakening the national governments, that are democratically accountable, but suffer very little scrutiny over European matters. The basic problem is that the EU is set up as a project to gradually form a federal superstate, and European voters have fairly consistently rejected this. So everyone agrees that something needs to change, but there's very little agreement on what.

 

[dystopian]

According to the exit polls here, the CDA (Christian Democrats) ended up with 15,4% of the votes, D66 (Progressive/Social Liberals - Pro EU) got 15,3% of the votes and PVV (xenophobic anti-eu nutjobs) got 12,7%. If right, this means that of the big three, D66 is the only one who'se won more votes than they had last time. Of course, the actual results might be different since it's just an exit poll. Also; turnout's looking to stay stuck at around 35-37%.

In any case, the comments on right-leaning forums are predictably saddening; people expressing hope for a civil war and the chance to slaughter people who voted D66 for being 'traitors'. L'sigh.

Edit: not sure if those figures were correct now; the latest numbers suggest 15,6% for D66 and 15,2 for CDA.

 

[Togo]

I voted today. The usual list of familair parties plus lots of tiny anti-europe parties. The ballot ended up being so long it flowed out of the booth and onto the floor while I was holding the top end.

 

[bilby]

I voted today. The usual list of familair parties plus lots of tiny anti-europe parties. The ballot ended up being so long it flowed out of the booth and onto the floor while I was holding the top end.

One advantage with FPTP voting is that no matter how large the paper, you need only mark one box. Over here, every box on the paper has to be numbered for your vote to count - except in Federal Senate elections, where you can mark a single box for a party list if you wish; although you still have the option to number every box (and there are typically around a hundred boxes).

 

[boneyard bill]

What kind of powers does the EU parliament actually have? My understanding is that they have diddley-squat for power. Most of the power rests in the European Commission which is appointed. So why should anyone waste their time to vote for members of a debating society?

 

[bilby]

What kind of powers does the EU parliament actually have? My understanding is that they have diddley-squat for power. Most of the power rests in the European Commission which is appointed. So why should anyone waste their time to vote for members of a debating society?

The parliament has been steadily growing in power over the last few decades; right now, they form one half of the decision making body that passes new legislation (the other half being the Council of Ministers, made up of one minister appointed by each of the governments of the member states). The Commission holds the executive powers, so is roughly analogous to the White House in the US model.

The approximately analogous body to the European Parliament in the US would be the Federal House of Representatives; The individual EU member states have far more autonomy than their US counterparts, so the power of the EU government is correspondingly lower; but despite the upswing in anti-EU sentiment amongst the electorate in recent years, the areas in which the EU is able to overrule the individual member's laws are steadily growing.

The Council of Ministers is roughly analogous to the US Federal Senate, in terms of its power, but is not directly elected.

Given that the only opportunity voters have to directly elect representatives is the parliamentary elections; and given that EU law does directly affect the people of the EU, it is rather more important than you are implying.

If the US president was chosen by the Federal Senate; and Federal Senators were appointees of State governments, leaving the House of Representatives as the only directly elected US federal government body, then surely it would make sense to vote in those elections? How else could you hope to influence Federal government policy?

 

[Sabine Grant]

The list I am linking to,

http://europedecides.eu/candidates/election-lists/fr/


is the same one the Consulat de France in Miami sent me as I am registered to vote via the Consulate. For those who have the patience and time to go through it, I suppose you will see that my country holds up to its "Vive la Difference". Speaking of pluralistic representation and not just by party but by regions. So, first you have to find "your region" which is usually your center of interest. Then, start eliminating which parties you would rather chew your own arm than vote for.(that would be the Front National for me, personally) While trying to figure out what is the platform of the UDI/MoDem, the Pirate party, the GUE/NGL, the DLR, Force Vie etc....

Step, 3, examining each candidate's performance/bio...good luck on this one! Will my fellow Frenchmen and women vote with a strong sense of civic duty? I do not think so. I predict that fringe parties will benefit from a low turnout from major parties voters, some profoundly disappointed by anything remotely close to " La Gauche" and others hesitant to believe that " La Droite" can be trusted. However, I expect the Front National to be a winner.

 

[bilby]

It does seem that, perhaps somewhat paradoxically, the EU parliament is a major contributor to the popularity of various dilutions of Fascism.

 

[lpetrich]

If the US president was chosen by the Federal Senate; and Federal Senators were appointees of State governments, leaving the House of Representatives as the only directly elected US federal government body, then surely it would make sense to vote in those elections? How else could you hope to influence Federal government policy?

That's how the US Senate started out, with US Senators chosen by state governments. That was changed to the people of each state by the 17th Amendment, passed in 1913.

As to the US President, the Electoral College was originally something like that, but with its delegates chosen by state governments. By the early 19th cy., however, each state's delegates became chosen by whichever party won the most votes in that state.

 

[bilby]

If the US president was chosen by the Federal Senate; and Federal Senators were appointees of State governments, leaving the House of Representatives as the only directly elected US federal government body, then surely it would make sense to vote in those elections? How else could you hope to influence Federal government policy?

That's how the US Senate started out, with US Senators chosen by state governments. That was changed to the people of each state by the 17th Amendment, passed in 1913.

As to the US President, the Electoral College was originally something like that, but with its delegates chosen by state governments. By the early 19th cy., however, each state's delegates became chosen by whichever party won the most votes in that state.

The design of the EU (and its predecessor the EEC) has always had at least one eye on creating a United States of Europe, loosely based on the USA model.

 

[dx713]

It does seem that, perhaps somewhat paradoxically, the EU parliament is a major contributor to the popularity of various dilutions of Fascism.

Yes, but the blames lies more to the feet of the national governments:
Step 1: deny as much power as possible to the EU parliament and discuss unpopular arrangement in non-elected bodies led by technocrats directly appointed by the national governments.
Step 2: cry to the national citizens that they cannot do anything because "Brussels technocrats" are preventing them (yes, those same technocrats they did appoint)
And in case the citizens get the wiser of it and vote against their European policies: cry that their citizens are "anti-Europe" and lump all those "pro-another-Europe" votes together with the real nationalist anti-Europe, adding insult to injury.

After that, they complain that the Front National's facists are seeing a better turnout than the major parties.

We're most probably going to end with a hung parliament, through lack of support for the main parties. The only saving grace might be that as all those extreme-right parties are also nationalists, they have difficulties forming an alliance, which might let the deep left or the green in a pivotal position to influence the policies, with the two main parties having to court their votes.

I think I'm going to vote for one of thoses: sustainable growth, more political control on the European Bank, euthanasia, minimum revenue, legalization, LGBT rights... Those are some issues I can get behind.

I still have to choose, though. The green program seem to align more closely with my left-libertarian / anarchist sensibilities, while the leftist "front de gauche" has some centralizing, communist undertones that I don't like much, but the green leaders have recently displayed some anti-science comments or uses of the natural fallacies that left me wondering, while I like the positions I heard of the Greek leader of the deep left European alliance.

(FWIW, I use "deep left" to differentiate them from the "officially left, but more like centrists" social-democrats but also from the fringe extreme left trotskists and assorted that we still have. Yes, the landscape on the French left isn't very simple.)

Off to the Internet to read the detailed programs I suppose...

What's sure is I will vote. Not voting is akin to voting for the winner (you increase their win in percentage), and there's no way I want to be voting for the Front National, even by default!

 

[Jokodo]

I voted today. The usual list of familair parties plus lots of tiny anti-europe parties. The ballot ended up being so long it flowed out of the booth and onto the floor while I was holding the top end.

One advantage with FPTP voting is that no matter how large the paper, you need only mark one box. Over here, every box on the paper has to be numbered for your vote to count - except in Federal Senate elections, where you can mark a single box for a party list if you wish; although you still have the option to number every box (and there are typically around a hundred boxes).

That's not an advantage that is specific to FPTP, but rather to single-vote systems in general. Most European countries have single vote systems that are nonetheless proportional.