Europe Submits Voluntarily II: The Moria Arson

[Derec]

A bunch of Afghan fakefugees currently camping for free at the Moria camp on the Greek island of Lesbos have set fires and completely destroyed the camp.

Greece: 4 Afghans charged with arson for fire at Lesbos camp

Four Afghan migrants were formally charged with arson Wednesday for their alleged involvement in fires that destroyed most of a large refugee camp on Greece's eastern island of Lesbos, authorities said.
The men, who have not been named, were led to a court on the island and later returned to police detention after being given three days to prepare their testimony.
The fires swept through the overcrowded camp at Moria on two nights last week, prompting more than 12,000 migrants and refugees to flee. Nobody was hurt. Most of them remain without shelter, camped on a roadside near the gutted camp.
Two other migrants allegedly involved in setting the fires are minors who are being held by police on the Greek mainland but have not been formally charged. They were among around 400 unaccompanied minors from Moria who were flown to the mainland after the fires.

That's a nice scam - burn your camp down and get a free trip to the mainland!

The Greek government maintains that the fires at Moria were set deliberately by migrants protesting confinement after the site was locked down due to an outbreak of COVID-19.
Athens on Tuesday urged the European Union to jointly run new refugee camps on Greece’s eastern islands as part of an overhaul of the EU’s migration policies.

That would be a smart decision - set up a new camp. Hopefully a closed camp with better security and more deportations back home immediately after an asylum rejection. But, unfortunately, Germany's Merkel regime is pushing EU to take the Muslim mass migrants and distribute them among EU countries.
Germany to take in 1,500 migrants from Greek islands after Lesbos fire

Germany plans to welcome more than 1,500 migrants from Greece after a fire devastated the Moria camp on the island of Lesbos, governmental sources have said.
This represents a sharp increase from the initial pledge to host some of the 400 unaccompanied children evacuated from Lesbos to mainland Greece following the September 8 blaze.
More than 12,000 people lived in cramped conditions in the Moria camp, which was built to accommodate fewer than 3,000. The vast majority of the 12,000 are now sleeping rough around the island.
Germany and France have both urged other European Union countries to show more solidarity and said the incident demonstrated the bloc needs to find a common answer to the migratory question.

This is a very stupid move. It rewards mass migrants for burning down their camp (how long until other camps on the Greek islands are on fire?) and taking in thousands of these mass migrants is going to send a signal for would be migrants still in countries such as Afghanistan and Pakistan that it's again possible to get into EU just by showing up at the border.

The Merkel government is very bad on this question, but the opposition, especially Greens and Left Party are even worse - they'd love for Germany to take in all 12000!
Germany: CDU rejects calls to bring thousands of refugee children from Greek camps

Green party leader Robert Habeck had asked the Berlin government to bring thousands of migrants from the Greek camps to Germany.
"Get the kids out first," Habeck told German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung.
Roughly 4,000 children, including "many girls, many fragile little people," are in need of urgent help and it is a "requirement of humanity," he insisted.

Most of the "4,000 [so-called] children" are not "girls" or "fragile little people" but strapping young lads of 16 or 17 or 18-22 year olds who threw away their documents and pretend that they are minors. Two of the arsonists are among that group. Habeck is a lying liar who lies because he knows full well the age demographics of Moria.

Germany is really hell-bent on committing national suicide.

There are hundred thousands or even millions of would be migrants in Afghanistan alone! And they are hardly "fragile little people", but mostly either older teenagers or young men in their 20s.

P.S.: Yes, I am aware that the title of the sequel sounds like a Robert Ludlum novel ...

 

[Jayjay]

That's a nice scam - burn your camp down and get a free trip to the mainland!

Let's review the steps of this scam...

1. Be born in Afgahnistan
2. Get chased to Iran by Taleban.
3. Stay a decade or two with no legal status, education, or any government protections.
4. Run to Turkey and spend a few years in a filthy refugee camp.
5. Take boat to Lesvos to another filthy refugee camp and stay there for a few more years.
6. Burn down camp.
7. Get a free trip to Greek mainland = Profit!

Yeah, I can see why people are butthurt that they didn't think of this great scam first.

 

[Derec]

2. Get chased to Iran by Taleban.

Reality check. Those fakefugees are not being chased by Taleban[sic]. The Afghan migrants are for the most part economic migrants.
Their families encourage these teenagers and young men to go to Europe, raise thousands of dollars to pay smugglers, all as an investment as they hope their son can send a multiple of the investment back home once he makes it to Western Europe.

7. Get a free trip to Greek mainland = Profit!

You forgot "8. Make your way to a country with generous benefits for migrants such as Germoney."
Then you get profit. And a lot of it.

 

[Jokodo]

2. Get chased to Iran by Taleban.

Reality check. Those fakefugees are not being chased by Taleban[sic]. The Afghan migrants are for the most part economic migrants.
Their families encourage these teenagers and young men to go to Europe, raise thousands of dollars to pay smugglers, all as an investment as they hope their son can send a multiple of the investment back home once he makes it to Western Europe.

7. Get a free trip to Greek mainland = Profit!

You forgot "8. Make your way to a country with generous benefits for migrants such as Germoney."
Then you get profit. And a lot of it.

The current rate for a single adult on welfare in Germany who has not previously worked and paid payroll taxes is € 432,- per month, or € 345,- for someone under the age of 24. If a refugee is recognized, that's exactly what they'll get - no more, no less. (Support for housing costs on top of that is possible, but limited to six months.)

A don't know the cost of rental in Atlanta, GA, but in much of Germany, you have to be lucky to find a room in a shared appartment for less than 400,-

 

[bigfield]

Reality check. Those fakefugees are not being chased by Taleban[sic]. The Afghan migrants are for the most part economic migrants.
Their families encourage these teenagers and young men to go to Europe, raise thousands of dollars to pay smugglers, all as an investment as they hope their son can send a multiple of the investment back home once he makes it to Western Europe.

This story makes no sense.

A young Afghan man, who probably doesn't speak any German (or English) and probably doesn't have much education, let alone marketable vocational training, will have to spend a long time just learning German and finding even basic employment. Even then he will probably bring in enough money to meet his own cost of living (Germany is an expensive place to live) unless he is willing to live in conditions that are probably even more unpleasant than his hometown. His family is highly unlikely to see any return on their "investment" within a couple of decades.

You forgot "8. Make your way to a country with generous benefits for migrants such as Germoney."
Then you get profit. And a lot of it.

This whole story, that asylum seekers are sending home surplus amounts of welfare money, just doesn't add up.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Reality check. Those fakefugees are not being chased by Taleban[sic]. The Afghan migrants are for the most part economic migrants.
Their families encourage these teenagers and young men to go to Europe, raise thousands of dollars to pay smugglers, all as an investment as they hope their son can send a multiple of the investment back home once he makes it to Western Europe.

This story makes no sense.

A young Afghan man, who probably doesn't speak any German (or English) and probably doesn't have much education, let alone marketable vocational training, will have to spend a long time just learning German and finding even basic employment. Even then he will probably bring in enough money to meet his own cost of living (Germany is an expensive place to live) unless he is willing to live in conditions that are probably even more unpleasant than his hometown. His family is highly unlikely to see any return on their "investment" within a couple of decades.

You forgot "8. Make your way to a country with generous benefits for migrants such as Germoney."
Then you get profit. And a lot of it.

This whole story, that asylum seekers are sending home surplus amounts of welfare money, just doesn't add up.

Whether they send money home is irrelevant to whether they are after higher benefits.

As for more unpleasant than home--that's usually not the case. And you're assuming they aren't working under the table.

 

[laughing dog]

A bunch of Afghan fakefugees...

There is nothing in the cited article to indicate that these migrants do or do not have legitimate refugee status. Hmmm.

 

[Jokodo]

This story makes no sense.

A young Afghan man, who probably doesn't speak any German (or English) and probably doesn't have much education, let alone marketable vocational training, will have to spend a long time just learning German and finding even basic employment. Even then he will probably bring in enough money to meet his own cost of living (Germany is an expensive place to live) unless he is willing to live in conditions that are probably even more unpleasant than his hometown. His family is highly unlikely to see any return on their "investment" within a couple of decades.



This whole story, that asylum seekers are sending home surplus amounts of welfare money, just doesn't add up.

Whether they send money home is irrelevant to whether they are after higher benefits.

It kind of is relevant when the claim is explicitly that "Then you get profit. And a lot of it."

Not "They're naively hoping to get profit, and a lot of it."

Different claims. The latter might be true while the former is false - and Derec would still be false, and bigfield right to call him out.

As for more unpleasant than home--that's usually not the case. And you're assuming they aren't working under the table.

The post bigfield replies to explicitly talks about "generous benefits for migrants" - not about "ample opportunities for working under the table".

Maybe there is an argument somewhere there, but Derec didn't make it - he claimed the former. And you didn't make it either - you effectively criticized bigfield for criticising argument A while defending a different argument that no-one (including yourself) has made.