Europe will be diverse

[Keith&Co.]

Keith&Co

So atheism does have things to offer nonbelievers.
And most of the things your religion offers you are all in your head, anyway

your wife love you is just in your head

Not at all.
When we moved, my wife sent in the 'change of address' card for my Playboy subscription. I have far more evidence Mrs. &Co. loves me than you have that any skybeast loves you.

but you glad that she love you,

Well, you got that much right...

without her love in your head you would go insane ( most of us )

No, not really. I didn't know she existed for 22 years, three months and four days. I didn't go insane* that whole time. I've known enough divorced people to know that it is possible to lose love and carry on sanely.

But still, you're saying that the benefits of religion need be no greater than a conviction that you're in the right, huh?
You BELIEVE your god loves you, so you have hope.
Which doesn't do shit if you're starving, but you die, what, happy?
Don't people sometimes die angry at god for failing them? Or when their kids die before they do? Can't people get mad at a disappointing belief in their head?

If nothing else that is one spot where atheism has the advantage. Atheism won't disappoint me by failing to save my kid from an unjust death. I don't think my kids deserve to die, but I also am under no illusion that the universe loves my kids or me enough to save them. My 'non-faith' will never be shattered by ugly fate. My 'non-prayers' ALWAYS go without being answered, so i never expect protection, last-minute reprieves, lottery wins, narrow escapes or a touchdown in the last 10 seconds that saves the school. Shit happens. No one is to blame.
Like, if i attend my son's gay wedding and give his union my blessing, and the next day my other son's cruiser is sunk in a hurricane, I WILL NEVER WORRY IF THE TWO EVENTS ARE CONNECTED! I will never wake up in the night FEELING GUILTY ABOUT IT.

Game, set and match, Atheism.


*At least, not by carefully selected standards of sanity, not counting volunteering for submarine service, which only looks insane from the outside. Kind of like Las Vegas.

 

[atrib]

What does any religion offer to people struggling to find food? Uh, nothing.

religion does not gave food but gave hope that next life will be better, without hope of next life their life has NO meaning ONLY to survive for food

Wrong. I do not need hope in an afterlife delivered by an imaginary god to provide meaning to my life. I find meaning through my family and friends, my curiosity, the work that I do and many activities that I derive pleasure from. I understand that my existence is finite, which makes me value what time I have and allows me to derive pleasure and fulfillment every day.

If your life has no meaning without the belief that an imaginary master will give you a life of infinite pleasure in heaven when you die, your life is wretched. People like you spend their lives on their knees, grovelling in fear of pissing off imaginary gods and demons, and kissing their imaginary ass every time you have some fun and feel guilty about it. The universe is full of wonder. Get off your knees and look around, and you will discover a life you never knew you could have.

for them atheism is MORE depressing news
so atheism is a cult for RICH and rebellious people who dont like authority

Now you're making up shit because you are wrong and you know it. You may be old and set in your ways, but I know you are not stupid.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

It doesn't do anything for them. It's a statement about one's lack of belief in gods. Think of it like how beer bottles don't do a whole lot to help combat climate change because they're spending all their time just sitting there holding beer and being a completely unrelated subject.

an ideology does have any thing to offer to its believers that ideology would not survive for too long
so atheism will die out soon after war on terror end

As a shareholder in several major defence contractors, I can confidently tell you that the war on terror isn't ending anytime soon. Profit projections are just going to keep rising for the foreseeable future.

Atheism doesn't try to offer anything. It's not a child's philosophy like Christianity or Islam where you get some toys out of it. It's just the truth and that's it.

 

[Infinite Monkey]

no, but atheism does not claimed to TRUTH nor does it offer any benefit

Well, it's freed up my Sunday mornings. Also, I appreciate life more now that I view it as finite- mine, and the lives of those around me. So many people in the world suffer unjustly, and if you abandon the idea that an infinitely powerful being will somehow correct this suffering, you realize that the responsibility is ours to make life better- that we can't just shrug and assume that a god will fix our problems for us. Atheism places humanity in the driver's seat, by necessity. Whether or not you see that as a "benefit" is entirely up to you, I guess.

If another religion came around which offered you everything that Islam offers you, PLUS a nice hug, would you convert? The benefit package is better than what Islam is offering, right?

yes, if it makes more sense than islam why not?

So, you worship Allah because of what you expect to get from Him, and not because you inherently want to?

 

[Syed]

Tom Sawyer
Atheism doesn't try to offer anything. It's not a child's philosophy like Christianity or Islam where you get some toys out of it. It's just the truth and that's it.

atheist dont understand that poor people behave in civil manner only because hope of after life

if you take away hope from them they will became animal and rob you and kill you

 

[Syed]

Infinite Monkey

So, you worship Allah because of what you expect to get from Him, and not because you inherently want to?

i worship allah because my mind convinced he exist

 

[Keith&Co.]

Tom Sawyer
Atheism doesn't try to offer anything. It's not a child's philosophy like Christianity or Islam where you get some toys out of it. It's just the truth and that's it.

atheist dont understand that poor people behave in civil manner only because hope of after life

No, i understand it. I don't agree with you that that's their motivation.
I think most people do what they want to do and rationalize it to match the religion they've been taught.
I know many theists who SAY that they'd be rapists and murderers if they didn't have their faith, but i don't notice too many previously law-abiding people that go on rape sprees during a crisis of faith....

if you take away hope from them they will became animal and rob you and kill you

Doubt it.
1) People are animals, Syed. You, me, Buddhist priests, almost everyone with a pulse is an animal. And an ape.
2) Go over to the thread about people's conversion stories, how they became atheists. How many of them turned to crime once they lost the hope of an afterlife?
3) Is it really hope, when there's all sorts of conflicting stories about who goes to Heaven and who's in for a shock on the day after they die? More like gambling.

- - - Updated - - -

Infinite Monkey

So, you worship Allah because of what you expect to get from Him, and not because you inherently want to?

i worship allah because my mind convinced he exist

I'm convinced Chevy Chase exist, but i do not worship him.
Why do you worship allah? As opposed to just acknowledging that the skyguy exists, why do you choose to follow Him?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Tom Sawyer
Atheism doesn't try to offer anything. It's not a child's philosophy like Christianity or Islam where you get some toys out of it. It's just the truth and that's it.

atheist dont understand that poor people behave in civil manner only because hope of after life

if you take away hope from them they will became animal and rob you and kill you

Yes, that's always been one theory - Marx's whole opiate of the masses position - but it's at complete odds with the actual facts on the ground. The more religious a group of people are, the more likely that their poor will be violent.

It's just one more religious claim which doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Religion and atheism both offer nothing, but atheism at least has the maturity to admit it.

 

[skepticalbip]

It's just one more religious claim which doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Religion and atheism both offer nothing, but atheism at least has the maturity to admit it.

Now that is just not true. Religion offers empty dire threats of hell for those who do not obey and empty promises of reward for those who do the dirty deeds that the leaders demand.

 

[Methinx]

It's just one more religious claim which doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Religion and atheism both offer nothing, but atheism at least has the maturity to admit it.

Now that is just not true. Religion offers empty dire threats of hell for those who do not obey and empty promises of reward for those who do the dirty deeds that the leaders demand.

Religion also offers immortality, eternal life for the soul; people don't want to give that up...and even if they end up in hell, God is merciful, they will be forgiven one day.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

No they won't. That's the whole point of Hell. You don't get forgiven and you burn forever. If you're only getting tortured for a couple of milliseconds or billion years before being able to spend an eternity in Paradise, it undercuts the entire rationale behind the place.

 

[Syed]

atheist dont understand that poor people behave in civil manner only because hope of after life

if you take away hope from them they will became animal and rob you and kill you

Yes, that's always been one theory - Marx's whole opiate of the masses position - but it's at complete odds with the actual facts on the ground. The more religious a group of people are, the more likely that their poor will be violent.

It's just one more religious claim which doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Religion and atheism both offer nothing, but atheism at least has the maturity to admit it.

religions offer HOPE of after life even if it is false

without HOPE human would become suicidal

atheism is snake oil would NOT survive for too long

 

[Keith&Co.]

Yes, that's always been one theory - Marx's whole opiate of the masses position - but it's at complete odds with the actual facts on the ground. The more religious a group of people are, the more likely that their poor will be violent.

It's just one more religious claim which doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Religion and atheism both offer nothing, but atheism at least has the maturity to admit it.

religions offer HOPE of after life even if it is false

So you'd rather be lied to than given bad news. Okay.

without HOPE human would become suicidal

But the afterlife is not the only possible source of HOPE, Syed. So, even if this is true, it's not germane.

atheism is snake oil would NOT survive for too long

Um...35 years as my personal testimony.

But, hey, this idea that you NEED an afterlife hope in order to have hope, that's the lie you'd rather have than face the truth, i guess.
So more power to you, Syed. Keep believing that your beliefs have some value for you, if that's the only value you can find in your life.

It's sad, but if that's all you have, and all religion can offer, that's all you have.

I'll be over here, having a life, thanks. Your cherished lies offer nothing for me.