Exposing Atheistic Myths

[Half-Life]

Not believing in Santa Claus is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

Not believing in Vampires is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

Not believing in Bigfoot is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

Not believing in Leprechauns is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

Not believing in Zeus is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

Not believing a perfectly formed china teapot is in orbit somewhere between the Earth and Mars is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

Not believing Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon by uttering words given one at a time to him from God himself before the golden plates containing their original Reformed Egyptian writing were miraculously spirited away into Heaven is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

This is fun! Everybody can play!

Yes, that is ALL based on FAITH.
Glad we agree.

 

[Keith&Co.]

These types of responses are stupid!

If what I said is hardly heavy, then surely you should've had no problem refuting it.

Since you didn't, your comment was fluff.

So, Halfie, are you willing to stand by this claim?

If we post a comment on your claims, and you don't refute it, we can dismiss your posts as 'fluff?'

Like, if we point out five or six problems with your premise and you only respond to one niggling little detail, that's ignorable 'fluff' because you didn't respond to the actual problems? We can say your post is stupid?

I've refuted everything, Keith.

i certainly believe you think so, but the facts are against you.

The problem is there's so many word salad ways to write, "Nuh-uh!" at me and make yourself think you are smart.

at least i know the difference between a study and a survey.
Whivh is one point you never refuted....

For example, atheists have agreed that it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove God doesn't exist. So, since it's impossible to prove God does not exist, atheism is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

Bullshit.
First of all, what is that meant to refute? Are you replying to an actual quote, or just made-up Halfie fiction?

Second, that would only be true if atheism alway and only meant 'someone who claims they have disproven all gods.'
Do you kniw anyone who claims that is what atheists mean when they vvkaim to be an atheist?
In other words, cite?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Not believing in Santa Claus is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

Not believing in Vampires is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

Not believing in Bigfoot is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

Not believing in Leprechauns is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

Not believing in Zeus is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

Not believing a perfectly formed china teapot is in orbit somewhere between the Earth and Mars is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

Not believing Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon by uttering words given one at a time to him from God himself before the golden plates containing their original Reformed Egyptian writing were miraculously spirited away into Heaven is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

This is fun! Everybody can play!

Yes, that is ALL based on FAITH.
Glad we agree.

You did not read closely, did you?
Are you saying you have no reason but faith to reject LDS theology?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Everyone who says stuff like this usually always says,

everyone usually always?
Do you English? Ever?

So why not say, "Aliens don't exist" like you do about God?

If i am being scrupulous, i say the samevthing about both extraterrestrials an d deities.
If i am teasing, there may be a difference. But then i can just pull a atrump. Except i really AM Just Joking.

 

[skepticalbip]

I've refuted everything, Keith. The problem is there's so many word salad ways to write, "Nuh-uh!" at me and make yourself think you are smart.

For example, atheists have agreed that it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove God doesn't exist. So, since it's impossible to prove God does not exist, atheism is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

You seem to be having trouble with the English language. It does not take faith to not believe something for which there is no reason to believe. I don't believe that the story of Little Red Riding Hood is a narrative of real people and real events. This isn't faith. It is a lack of belief even though I was told the story many times by authority figures. Why a lack of belief? Because there is no logical reason to think it is true.

ETA:
I should have read the post after yours. Atheos pointed out your twisting of the English language much better than I did. Reading a little further would have saved me the trouble.

Everyone who says stuff like this usually always says, "Aliens might exist. I'm not saying they don't." So, why is it OK to leave the possibility open for aliens, but not God? There's no evidence for aliens, right? So why not say, "Aliens don't exist" like you do about God?

Hmmmmmmmm

You write like someone who has absolutely no understanding of probabilities... the kind of person who would see no problem with saying that there either are flying, fire-breathing dragons or there aren't so there is a 50/50 chance that flying. fire-breathing dragons exist.

Our current understanding of science and the universe explains quite well everything we experience and has allowed us to create the civilization you now enjoy. The existence of aliens somewhere out there would be well within the limits of everything we know of the universe; physics, chemistry, etc. Are there aliens? Dunno but I would be damned surprised if there were no other life in the universe. Why? Because all the same elements exist throughout the universe we have observed, chemistry applies wherever there are these elements, and the laws of physics apply everywhere.

The existence of the reality of the Bible's description of god and his powers would violate everything we know of the universe; physics, chemistry, etc.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I've refuted everything, Keith.

There are questions and claims in the post linked here that you have not answered, settled, or refuted.

Uh huh..... hey, can you tell me the rate at which nerve cells are replaced?

Heh.. you use 'prove' stupidly.

If our mind is immaterial, how did so many sailors get drunk every time we came into port?

Just think why you were born into your body and not someone else's.

i wasn't born into this body.
I have spent a good 50* years crafting the person in this body

No reason in a natural world why "you" were born in this time period and not some other time period.

a meaningless claim.

Why didn't we have different parents? Why do you believe we only get one life if you popped up randomly here in this life?

you are easily impressed by your self importance.

Why can't you pop up randomly again in thousands of years?

how do you know we do not?

Very heavy stuff.

nope.
Difficult to clean off the boot, but not all that heavy.

 

[abaddon]

From TFF, October 2019:

I've refuted everything, Keith. The problem is there's so many word salad ways to write, "Nuh-uh!" at me and make yourself think you are smart.

For example, atheists have agreed that it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove God doesn't exist. So, since it's impossible to prove God does not exist, atheism is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

And also this:

Everyone who says stuff like this usually always says, "Aliens might exist. I'm not saying they don't." So, why is it OK to leave the possibility open for aliens, but not God? There's no evidence for aliens, right? So why not say, "Aliens don't exist" like you do about God?

Hmmmmmmmm

From FRDB, July 2008:

It seems theists ... think that when atheists have "faith" in something, it proves their beliefs right or something. :huh:

If I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow, that in no way implies I must believe in God just because I have faith in something else. Just like it in no way implies I must believe in leprechauns or goblins either.

It actually seems like a lot of theists say ridiculous stuff like, "Well, if you don't believe in God, you can't have morals" or "if you don't believe in God, you can't know anything for certain." But, why not? All atheism is is a lack of belief in gods. Just because you don't believe in a super power, that means you can't do certain things?

(emphasis added)

Some posts in 2014 show Half-Life still identified as atheist at that time.

I'm wondering how atheism gets so badly misrepresented by (presumably) an ex-atheist. Does a reconversion to Christianity make the reconvert forget everything he once understood about atheism? (As well as forget how to even think?) Or... maybe Half-Life can just go ahead and say he's doing a parody?

 

[Half-Life]

From TFF, October 2019:

So, since it's impossible to prove God does not exist, atheism is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

From FRDB, July 2008:

It seems theists ... think that when atheists have "faith" in something, it proves their beliefs right or something. :huh:

If I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow, that in no way implies I must believe in God just because I have faith in something else. Just like it in no way implies I must believe in leprechauns or goblins either.

It actually seems like a lot of theists say ridiculous stuff like, "Well, if you don't believe in God, you can't have morals" or "if you don't believe in God, you can't know anything for certain." But, why not? All atheism is is a lack of belief in gods. Just because you don't believe in a super power, that means you can't do certain things?

(emphasis added)

Some posts in 2014 show Half-Life still identified as atheist at that time.

I'm wondering how atheism gets so badly misrepresented by (presumably) an ex-atheist. Does a reconversion to Christianity make the reconvert forget everything he once understood about atheism? (As well as forget how to even think?) Or... maybe Half-Life can just go ahead and say he's doing a parody?

Yes, that was all wrong. I didn't understand back then that atheists can not have objective morals. Without goodness being an innate property of God and God writing this goodness on our hearts, you can't have objective morals. You can only at best say, "I don't believe in murder but other people might. So, to each their own." That's the best you can do in an atheistic universe. You can't say, "Hey murderer! It's just wrong that you're a murderer!" There's no objective law of the universe that says murder is wrong in an atheistic universe.

 

[skepticalbip]

From TFF, October 2019:



From FRDB, July 2008:

(emphasis added)

Some posts in 2014 show Half-Life still identified as atheist at that time.

I'm wondering how atheism gets so badly misrepresented by (presumably) an ex-atheist. Does a reconversion to Christianity make the reconvert forget everything he once understood about atheism? (As well as forget how to even think?) Or... maybe Half-Life can just go ahead and say he's doing a parody?

Yes, that was all wrong. I didn't understand back then that atheists can not have objective morals. Without goodness being an innate property of God and God writing this goodness on our hearts, you can't have objective morals. You can only at best say, "I don't believe in murder but other people might. So, to each their own." That's the best you can do in an atheistic universe. You can't say, "Hey murderer! It's just wrong that you're a murderer!" There's no objective law of the universe that says murder is wrong in an atheistic universe.

Morals are cultural and so independent of religious beliefs or lack of religious beliefs. If we actually relied on the Bible for our morality then we would stone adulterers to death as a moral duty, see nothing immoral with slavery, accept beating our slaves as moral (as long as they could recover in a couple days), etc.

 

[Keith&Co.]

From TFF, October 2019:



From FRDB, July 2008:

(emphasis added)

Some posts in 2014 show Half-Life still identified as atheist at that time.

I'm wondering how atheism gets so badly misrepresented by (presumably) an ex-atheist. Does a reconversion to Christianity make the reconvert forget everything he once understood about atheism? (As well as forget how to even think?) Or... maybe Half-Life can just go ahead and say he's doing a parody?

Yes, that was all wrong. I didn't understand back then that atheists can not have objective morals. Without goodness being an innate property of God and God writing this goodness on our hearts, you can't have objective morals.

if they are from god, what makes them objective?

Whst do you think objective means?

You can only at best say, "I don't believe in murder but other people might. So, to each their own."

why is that the best if we don't have 'objective' morals?

That's the best you can do in an atheistic universe.

why? Back this up.

You can't say, "Hey murderer! It's just wrong that you're a murderer!" There's no objective law of the universe that says murder is wrong in an atheistic universe.

no, but we can, and we DO say, 'we all got together and WE SAY that murder is wrong, so, murderer, we are going to punish you for breaking our secular law.'
Are you really that ignorant about how things work?

 

[abaddon]

Yes, that was all wrong. I didn't understand back then that atheists can not have objective morals. Without goodness being an innate property of God and God writing this goodness on our hearts, you can't have objective morals. You can only at best say, "I don't believe in murder but other people might. So, to each their own." That's the best you can do in an atheistic universe. You can't say, "Hey murderer! It's just wrong that you're a murderer!" There's no objective law of the universe that says murder is wrong in an atheistic universe.

You're all wrong now.

And you skipped over my point. I'm asking about how you understood atheism back before your reconversion to Christianity. But now, after the reconversion, you don't. (Or you still understand it but are all-too-willing to grossly misrepresent it).

You understood, and argued over years, the side of the AvT argument that atheism is not "gods don't exist".

So, you understand at least that many atheists don't propose that "gods don't exist". Right?

If you understand that many atheists don't say that, then how is it ok to say that atheists say "gods don't exist"?

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Yes, that was all wrong. I didn't understand back then that atheists can not have objective morals. Without goodness being an innate property of God and God writing this goodness on our hearts, you can't have objective morals. You can only at best say, "I don't believe in murder but other people might. So, to each their own." That's the best you can do in an atheistic universe. You can't say, "Hey murderer! It's just wrong that you're a murderer!" There's no objective law of the universe that says murder is wrong in an atheistic universe.

Let me explain this to you. If you are robbed, raped, beaten, attacked or cheated, do you have to run to some old book to understand how you are supposed to feel about this? How about if you find your daughter or wife have been raped, tortured and killed?
How about if something good happens to you? Do you need some bronze age set of myths to explain that to you?

Evolution early on gave animals emotions to help guide them through the world.

Unfortunately, we humans have enough ability. The ability to think abstractly. Which gets us into trouble. We can be taught to ignore our emotions that might be a guide.

We can adopt bad religions, bad cultures, bad subcultures, bad politics, racism or ideologies.

"It's too bad we have to kill all the Jews to save Germany and the world". It is too bad we have to send millions to the gulags to create the Workers' Paradise" "God has made slavery moral and blacks are created to be slaves to the White Race". "He looked at me funny and our gang rules this neighborhood. I had to shoot him". And on and on.

Bible morality has often enough been the problem, not the solution. Atheists are aware that emotions are the basis of good ethics and morals, if we are smart enough not to adopt evil ideologies, cultures etc. and to be continuously examining our biases for such problems.

You need to rethink all of this. Evolution is at the roots of ethics and morality. Jelly fish, and other lowly animals without complex brains and emotions, obviously cannot have morality, just tropisms.

 

[Keith&Co.]

If you understand that many atheists don't say that, then how is it ok to say that atheists say "gods don't exist"?

LOOKS like an argument from consequences.
I mean, he knew a basic definition of atheism, but abandoned it because we would lack access to objective morality. So that...somehow...changes the word's meaning?

Standard PRATT, laws prove a lawgiver, but he just cannot color inside the lines, can he?

 

[steve_bank]

My well worn response to atheists having no 'objective morality' is observing the so called Christian biblical values and all the pain and suffering throughout history. You can have the so called biblical god mandated morality. It is worthless.

Witness the current Israeli Zionist government and seizing Palestinians land based on the idea god gave it to them. I am not condemning all Jews, but it is a glaring example of biblical interpretation leading to glaring immorality.

A long list I am tired of repeating.

 

[abaddon]

I mean, he knew a basic definition of atheism, but abandoned it because we would lack access to objective morality. So that...somehow...changes the word's meaning?

It has surprised me, the times that I've seen a former atheist saying untrue things about atheists and atheism. It made the claim "I used to be atheist too" seem suspicious. But now I understand why a formerly 'full-on atheist' becomes able to push the standard-issue propaganda about atheism. As believers they'll believe whatever they need to.

When I was a Christian, my biggest fear was I'd ever be atheist.

So I guess these Christians that deconvert, then reconvert, need really strong armor against it happening again.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I mean, he knew a basic definition of atheism, but abandoned it because we would lack access to objective morality. So that...somehow...changes the word's meaning?

It has surprised me, the times that I've seen a former atheist saying untrue things about atheists and atheism. It made the claim "I used to be atheist too" seem suspicious. But now I understand why a formerly 'full-on atheist' becomes able to push the standard-issue propaganda about atheism. As believers they'll believe whatever they need to.

When I was a Christian, my biggest fear was I'd ever be atheist.

So I guess these Christians that deconvert, then reconvert, need really strong armor against it happening again.

Halfie was obviously never a true atheist.

 

[Keith&Co.]

When I was a Christian, my biggest fear was I'd ever be atheist.

My biggest fear was that there was a test afterwards.
I mean, i could fake it in Sunday School and Primary. The women were only looking for key words and tricky phrases. You didn't really have to KNOW why the Catholics were wrong, or how having 20 grand-kids made Heaven better when you got there, or exactly why Coke was forbidden by a stricture against 'hot drinks.'

But they were in a hurry to get 20 kids through the day's lesson and get home to cook dinner. I knew God would not be fooled by throwing out code words. He'd KNOW if you didn't know shit. So i kept asking questions. Iwanted to be ready for the heavenly entrance exam.
And i was terrified that everyone around me apparently 'got' it. Just... Never occurred to me that they were only throwing out key words and pretending to knowledge none of us had...

 

[Atheos]

Not believing in Santa Claus is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

Not believing in Vampires is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

Not believing in Bigfoot is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

Not believing in Leprechauns is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

Not believing in Zeus is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

Not believing a perfectly formed china teapot is in orbit somewhere between the Earth and Mars is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

Not believing Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon by uttering words given one at a time to him from God himself before the golden plates containing their original Reformed Egyptian writing were miraculously spirited away into Heaven is based on faith, not facts, not logic, not reason, just pure and simple faith.

This is fun! Everybody can play!

Yes, that is ALL based on FAITH.
Glad we agree.

Interesting. So what you're saying is you have no more reason to believe in this god of yours than I have to believe in Vampires, Bigfoot, Russel's Teapot or Leprechauns. This seems rather tenuous ground to occupy but if it's where you want to make your stand so be it. Since this god of yours is no more evidenced than Leprechauns I'll toss them in the same bucket and remain a skeptical atheist.

 

[Treedbear]

...
Yes, that was all wrong. I didn't understand back then that atheists can not have objective morals. Without goodness being an innate property of God and God writing this goodness on our hearts, you can't have objective morals. You can only at best say, "I don't believe in murder but other people might. So, to each their own." That's the best you can do in an atheistic universe. You can't say, "Hey murderer! It's just wrong that you're a murderer!" There's no objective law of the universe that says murder is wrong in an atheistic universe.

Murder is defined as wrongful killing, period. It's too simplistic to think of it as an objective moral fact. There are some instances where killing is morally good and others where it is immoral. That's why we need courts and laws and precedents. Morality is complicated. The only objective thing about it is that it provides a structure that holds society together. But it continually evolves by trial and error. Theists want morality spoon-fed to them. But it's not coming from a God, it's from totalitarian religious regimes.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Theists want morality spoon-fed to them.

But that's not morality.
Morality is doing the right thing for the right reasons.
If the only reason i don't kill my jerkass neighbor is laziness, it is not a moral choice, but it is obeying the law and the commandment.
Unless he doesn't observe the Sabbath, and opens his witchcraft supply store and training coven on Subday. Then i am obeying the law, but breaking a different commandment, and still if i think he should be dead, but too lazy, not a moral choice.

Most of the commandments have no underlying rationale for why something is prohibited which would help a moral code develop. Just 'Don't.'