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Facebook is banning White Separatism and White Nationalism

 
 
 
Racial Pride isn't a good thing regardless of the race. I think you can have more success in shutting down such racist groups and their support if this applied to all. You otherwise create a basis for their cries of false persecution.

It's like Christians in the USA complaining that Jews or Muslims get some sort of special rights, if you ban religious persecution by Christians instead of religious persecution generally, despite the effect being pretty much identical in that country.

When a call for "ban white pride" is met with "bad all race pride" and then met not with "yeah ok" but instead with cries of racism or other defensive posturing, it only arms the white racists. Same goes for when "black lives matter" being met with "yes, all lives do" was then met with cries of racism or other defensiveness. Turning on would be allies doesn't push forward the cause, and arms the problem.

If as Derec fears, any anti-white group is still not banned from Facebook while the anti-not-white groups are, then what Facebook has done is create a recruiting tool as much as disabling one.
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
Racial Pride isn't a good thing regardless of the race. I think you can have more success in shutting down such racist groups and their support if this applied to all. You otherwise create a basis for their cries of false persecution.

It's like Christians in the USA complaining that Jews or Muslims get some sort of special rights, if you ban religious persecution by Christians instead of religious persecution generally, despite the effect being pretty much identical in that country.
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Well, when Black Pride groups start murdering a bunch of white people on multiple occasions because of their race, it would be valid to ban them as well. Until they do that, though, it would just be really weird and creepy to compare them to white nationalist groups.
 
Good luck in trying to manage this Facebook. The problem with banning stuff is that while banning porn is easy, what is the line of White Nationalism? Sure, there is easy things to block, but it will become muddled.
Tom Sawyer said:
Jolly_Penguin said:
Racial Pride isn't a good thing regardless of the race. I think you can have more success in shutting down such racist groups and their support if this applied to all. You otherwise create a basis for their cries of false persecution.

It's like Christians in the USA complaining that Jews or Muslims get some sort of special rights, if you ban religious persecution by Christians instead of religious persecution generally, despite the effect being pretty much identical in that country.
Click to expand...

Well, when Black Pride groups start murdering a bunch of white people on multiple occasions because of their race, it would be valid to ban them as well. Until they do that, though, it would just be really weird and creepy to compare them to white nationalist groups.
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You have the pride stuff... Irish Pride, Black Pride, then you have the hate White Nationalism.
 
Tom Sawyer said:
Jolly_Penguin said:
Racial Pride isn't a good thing regardless of the race. I think you can have more success in shutting down such racist groups and their support if this applied to all. You otherwise create a basis for their cries of false persecution.

It's like Christians in the USA complaining that Jews or Muslims get some sort of special rights, if you ban religious persecution by Christians instead of religious persecution generally, despite the effect being pretty much identical in that country.
Click to expand...

Well, when Black Pride groups start murdering a bunch of white people on multiple occasions because of their race, it would be valid to ban them as well. Until they do that, though, it would just be really weird and creepy to compare them to white nationalist groups.
Click to expand...

Only by those looking at it from that vantage point. I assure you that a potential white nationalist isn't going to be looking at it that way. Just like the Christians they don't recognize that they are the majority and thus the power. They see uneven treatment based on race. They see that as an attack on them. They seek others who think the same. They get radicalized.

Easy safeguard? Don't feed their recruiting efforts.
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
If as Derec fears, any anti-white group is still not banned from Facebook while the anti-not-white groups are, then what Facebook has done is create a recruiting tool as much as disabling one.
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Create a recruiting tool ? No, Facebook have done the opposite, they have prevented their platform from being used as a recruiting tool by banishing them from their platform. Whatever the white supremacists (or whatever group Facebook arbitrarily banish) get up to after they are banned from Facebook is not Facebook's concern.
 
dismal said:
ronburgundy said:
Jolly_Penguin said:
The social network said it hadn’t banned expressions of white nationalism because it was considering the broader scope of the concept, like separatism and pride. However, after conferring with race relations experts, Facebook decided that the rationale it applies to white supremacy also should apply to white nationalism, due to the company’s long-standing policy against hate speech on race, ethnicity or religion.

Interesting that it was "race relations experts" that they say made the difference for them in deciding this.... and not the attack in NZ.
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FB and Twitter both already have the AI collected data to know that the attack in NZ was not isolated and that white supremacy is widespread and on the rise in the US and elsewhere, congealing into organized political efforts that are impacting election outcomes. This is despite claims by our resident white supremacists that it's not a major problem.

Their consultation with race relation experts refers to them being hesitant to ban white supremacist hate speech b/c any AI algorithm would also tag things like white nationalism, separatism, and white "pride". FB was under the delusion those are fundamentally different things. The experts informed then they are not, they are merely various expressions of an underlying white-supremacist ideology.
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Well, since the guy in NZ was an ideological environmentalist I look forward to facebook shutting down environmentalist groups.
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Is there any point you can't miss?
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
Racial Pride isn't a good thing regardless of the race. I think you can have more success in shutting down such racist groups and their support if this applied to all. You otherwise create a basis for their cries of false persecution.

It's like Christians in the USA complaining that Jews or Muslims get some sort of special rights, if you ban religious persecution by Christians instead of religious persecution generally, despite the effect being pretty much identical in that country.

When a call for "ban white pride" is met with "bad all race pride" and then met not with "yeah ok" but instead with cries of racism or other defensive posturing, it only arms the white racists. Same goes for when "black lives matter" being met with "yes, all lives do" was then met with cries of racism or other defensiveness. Turning on would be allies doesn't push forward the cause, and arms the problem.

If as Derec fears, any anti-white group is still not banned from Facebook while the anti-not-white groups are, then what Facebook has done is create a recruiting tool as much as disabling one.
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter - banning them is enough for them to parade their victimhood. And anyone that is likely to persuade was simply one baby step away anyways.
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
Racial Pride isn't a good thing regardless of the race.
Click to expand...

Racial pride is not a good, but it isn't an equally bad thing for all groups. That is b/c it is only a clear direct sign of bigoted racial-supremacist ideology when it comes from the socially and economically dominant group that stepped on the throats of other races for centuries and still does.

When the victims of that racially dominant group engage in racial pride it is a self-protective mechanism to rebuild the self-worth violently stripped from them by the dominant group.

IOW, while all racial supremacy ideologies are equally heinous and bigoted, racial pride only reveals that heinous ideology when engaged in by the dominant race with a history of violent abuse of other races, which in any western society means whites.

That said, I agree with you that white supremacists will dishonestly make that false equivalence, precisely b/c it rests upon ignoring the violent attacks non-whites have and do go through, as only a white supremacist and those dangerously ignorant of history and reality would.
Thus, it does give them a rallying cry that could do more harm than good in terms of the spread of such ideology. Although, the only ones persuaded by such dishonest rhetoric would be those already prone towards white supremacy and just need a little push. Sadly, there are many of those as the last election showed.

(note: the above is NOT the same as nor gives support to the bogus notion that only whites can be racist. IF a non-white holds a racist supremacy ideology, then they are a racist person, even if their group lacks the power to cause as much harm. The issue is that racial pride among actually victimized groups is often not a sign of racial supremacy ideology or racism)
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
Tom Sawyer said:
Jolly_Penguin said:
Racial Pride isn't a good thing regardless of the race. I think you can have more success in shutting down such racist groups and their support if this applied to all. You otherwise create a basis for their cries of false persecution.

It's like Christians in the USA complaining that Jews or Muslims get some sort of special rights, if you ban religious persecution by Christians instead of religious persecution generally, despite the effect being pretty much identical in that country.
Click to expand...

Well, when Black Pride groups start murdering a bunch of white people on multiple occasions because of their race, it would be valid to ban them as well. Until they do that, though, it would just be really weird and creepy to compare them to white nationalist groups.
Click to expand...

Only by those looking at it from that vantage point. I assure you that a potential white nationalist isn't going to be looking at it that way. Just like the Christians they don't recognize that they are the majority and thus the power. They see uneven treatment based on race. They see that as an attack on them. They seek others who think the same. They get radicalized.

Easy safeguard? Don't feed their recruiting efforts.
Click to expand...

Well, the average white nationalist is a whiny snowflake idiot who'd manage to feel oppressed no matter what you did or didn't do to them. Who gives a fucking shit what white nationalists think about anything or how butthurt they get by others treating them like they're some kind of white nationalist or something?
 
laughing dog said:
It doesn't matter - banning them is enough for them to parade their victimhood. And anyone that is likely to persuade was simply one baby step away anyways.
Click to expand...

Talking about banning them is enough for them to claim victimhood. Hell, they already claim victimhood over non-existent 'shadow-banning'.
 
Derec said:
Jolly_Penguin said:
Interesting that it was "race relations experts" that they say made the difference for them in deciding this.... and not the attack in NZ.
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I wonder which "race relations experts" they consulted. Probably the racist ones who insist that only white people can be racist. How else do you explain that Facebook is not banning black, hispanic or any other kind of nationalism/separatism...

For example, why doesn't Facebook ban the NBPP? What's sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander.
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+1 Agree
 
Tom Sawyer said:
Well, when Black Pride groups start murdering a bunch of white people on multiple occasions because of their race, it would be valid to ban them as well. Until they do that, though, it would just be really weird and creepy to compare them to white nationalist groups.
Click to expand...
You would have a point if Facebook only banned groups who were directly involved in violence. But Facebook is trying to ban all groups who express a particular idea, and therefore there is no justification in banning racial hate only from one race, but not others.

By the way, there are violent anti-white hate crimes, but they do not get a lot of coverage in the media.
 
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