FDA wants to regulate homeopathy....Wooo peddlers wailing in anguish

[whollygoats]

But the FDA is looking at maybe changing guidance on homeopathic drugs via a RISK BASED analysis. There are only two risks to homeopathic drugs:

1) to the wallet
2) potentially not taking a drug that is actually needed

3) potentially not taking a pharmaceutical drug which could kill or disable you.

 

[whollygoats]

The stats on drugs prescribed to kids is staggering.

In the 90s I went for acupuncture, the insurance company was running a study. They'd pay amf you write a report. The things being said to patients was pseudoscience of the highest order.

I ended up with a licensed massage therapist with in depth knowledge of physiology who worked wonders on my back. One session lasted several weeks.

For a serious problem, I'd go to a degreed physical therapist.

Which stats, where?

I've never done acupuncture. I have a needle phobia. I struggle with my insulin as it is; willingly subjecting myself to multiple punctures is way too much.

There are those who would dismiss a licensed massage therapist as woo, often with an arched eyebrow. I submit myself to the ministrations of a licensed massage therapist who is a practicing naturopathic physician. That's how she garnered her skills and training in massage, as it was a 'modality' of her naturopathic training. She is basically an herbalist. I do not consult her on nutritional supplements.

My significant other, a licensed massage therapist, has a physical therapist she prefers. My experience is that they do the same thing, but cost slightly more than a chiropractor. In my state, they are required to have a doctorate to practice as a 'physical therapist', as are chiropractors. An osteopathic physician should be able to do the same, but for them, you are charged out at the same rates as an MD, so, four to five times the cost of either chiropractor or physical therapist.

 

[steve_bank]

The stats on drugs prescribed to kids is staggering.

In the 90s I went for acupuncture, the insurance company was running a study. They'd pay amf you write a report. The things being said to patients was pseudoscience of the highest order.

I ended up with a licensed massage therapist with in depth knowledge of physiology who worked wonders on my back. One session lasted several weeks.

For a serious problem, I'd go to a degreed physical therapist.

Which stats, where?

I've never done acupuncture. I have a needle phobia. I struggle with my insulin as it is; willingly subjecting myself to multiple punctures is way too much.

There are those who would dismiss a licensed massage therapist as woo, often with an arched eyebrow. I submit myself to the ministrations of a licensed massage therapist who is a practicing naturopathic physician. That's how she garnered her skills and training in massage, as it was a 'modality' of her naturopathic training. She is basically an herbalist. I do not consult her on nutritional supplements.

My significant other, a licensed massage therapist, has a physical therapist she prefers. My experience is that they do the same thing, but cost slightly more than a chiropractor. In my state, they are required to have a doctorate to practice as a 'physical therapist', as are chiropractors. An osteopathic physician should be able to do the same, but for them, you are charged out at the same rates as an MD, so, four to five times the cost of either chiropractor or physical therapist.

It has been well covered in the news. Ritalin for one. If a kids behavior that is overactive by a doctor the kid gets ritalin. It us pushed by big pharma just like oxy is pushed to over prescribing. Ritalin has become a recreational drug.

It helps some kids, but it is over applied. You might say some doctors practice pseudo medicine. They look up a symptom and pick a drug that is recommended. Either kids have dratcally changed in the last 50 years or doctors are going overboard.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylphenidate

https://psychcentral.com/lib/the-dr...gnosis-leads-to-over-prescription-of-ritalin/

Ritalin is over-prescribed as a medication for the treatment of supposed attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder in our children nowadays. Ritalin (also known by its generic name of methylphenidate) use has at least tripled in the past 5 years (1990-1995) and some studies suggest use is up an astounding 500%. Some psychiatrists and doctors are quick to explain away this increase as being due to a greater understanding of attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and a greater acceptance amongst parents of the effectiveness of Ritalin as a proper and useful treatment.

http://www.apa.org/topics/adhd/ritalin-debate.aspx

LMT woo? Who? They are required to have a knowledge of physiology. Massage works, much like running releases endorphins. Obviously you have never had a quality whole body massage.

My point is chiropractors are little more than physical therapists. Licensed physical therapists require two years of college, an internship, and testing.

 

[whollygoats]

The stats on drugs prescribed to kids is staggering.

In the 90s I went for acupuncture, the insurance company was running a study. They'd pay amf you write a report. The things being said to patients was pseudoscience of the highest order.

I ended up with a licensed massage therapist with in depth knowledge of physiology who worked wonders on my back. One session lasted several weeks.

For a serious problem, I'd go to a degreed physical therapist.

Which stats, where?

I've never done acupuncture. I have a needle phobia. I struggle with my insulin as it is; willingly subjecting myself to multiple punctures is way too much.

There are those who would dismiss a licensed massage therapist as woo, often with an arched eyebrow. I submit myself to the ministrations of a licensed massage therapist who is a practicing naturopathic physician. That's how she garnered her skills and training in massage, as it was a 'modality' of her naturopathic training. She is basically an herbalist. I do not consult her on nutritional supplements.

My significant other, a licensed massage therapist, has a physical therapist she prefers. My experience is that they do the same thing, but cost slightly more than a chiropractor. In my state, they are required to have a doctorate to practice as a 'physical therapist', as are chiropractors. An osteopathic physician should be able to do the same, but for them, you are charged out at the same rates as an MD, so, four to five times the cost of either chiropractor or physical therapist.

It has been well covered in the news. Ritalin for one. If a kids behavior that is overactive by a doctor the kid gets ritalin. It us pushed by big pharma just like oxy is pushed to over prescribing. Ritalin has become a recreational drug.

It helps some kids, but it is over applied. You might say some doctors practice pseudo medicine. They look up a symptom and pick a drug that is recommended. Either kids have dratcally changed in the last 50 years or doctors are going overboard.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylphenidate

https://psychcentral.com/lib/the-dr...gnosis-leads-to-over-prescription-of-ritalin/

Ritalin is over-prescribed as a medication for the treatment of supposed attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder in our children nowadays. Ritalin (also known by its generic name of methylphenidate) use has at least tripled in the past 5 years (1990-1995) and some studies suggest use is up an astounding 500%. Some psychiatrists and doctors are quick to explain away this increase as being due to a greater understanding of attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and a greater acceptance amongst parents of the effectiveness of Ritalin as a proper and useful treatment.

http://www.apa.org/topics/adhd/ritalin-debate.aspx

Ah, thanks. I just wondered which issue you were referencing. There are several. Dosing, for one...very little is done in the way of research supporting pediatric dosing with most pharmaceuticals.

LMT woo? Who? They are required to have a knowledge of physiology. Massage works, much like running releases endorphins. Obviously you have never had a quality whole body massage.

My point is chiropractors are little more than physical therapists. Licensed physical therapists require two years of college, an internship, and testing.

Well, you need to read a mite more carefully. I undergo full body massage of the highest quality, as frequently as I can afford, and recommend it for most. I tend to focus upon back and shoulder massage, but foot massages can be heavenly. I don't consider it 'woo' at all....but Phands has not checked back in to this thread, yet. Who knows what he thinks about licensed massage therapists, given that he seems to think that chiropractors are somehow akin to the spawn of the devil. To give the ranters their due, the edges of the massage therapy world is peopled with the cultists of Reiki. Woo.

Well, in searching the requirements for physical therapists, I got this: "Before they are allowed to practice, physical therapists must have earned a graduate degree from accredited academic program in physical therapy. These programs typically culminate in a doctoral degree and take at least three years to complete. " They are doctors, just not MDs. Yes, they must successfully complete the licensure examination in the state where they intend to practice. The same level and quality of education and examination is required of each and every chiropractor who practices in the state (as is each and every medical physician). In one sense, chiropractors are _more_ limited in their practice, as it is theoretically limited to spinal manipulation, whereas physical therapists can engage in all manner of physical manipulations. But, yes, essentially, they address the same type of problems with the same set of tools.

 

[phands]

The stats on drugs prescribed to kids is staggering.

In the 90s I went for acupuncture, the insurance company was running a study. They'd pay amf you write a report. The things being said to patients was pseudoscience of the highest order.

I ended up with a licensed massage therapist with in depth knowledge of physiology who worked wonders on my back. One session lasted several weeks.

For a serious problem, I'd go to a degreed physical therapist.

Which stats, where?

I've never done acupuncture. I have a needle phobia. I struggle with my insulin as it is; willingly subjecting myself to multiple punctures is way too much.

There are those who would dismiss a licensed massage therapist as woo, often with an arched eyebrow. I submit myself to the ministrations of a licensed massage therapist who is a practicing naturopathic physician. That's how she garnered her skills and training in massage, as it was a 'modality' of her naturopathic training. She is basically an herbalist. I do not consult her on nutritional supplements.

My significant other, a licensed massage therapist, has a physical therapist she prefers. My experience is that they do the same thing, but cost slightly more than a chiropractor. In my state, they are required to have a doctorate to practice as a 'physical therapist', as are chiropractors. An osteopathic physician should be able to do the same, but for them, you are charged out at the same rates as an MD, so, four to five times the cost of either chiropractor or physical therapist.

It has been well covered in the news. Ritalin for one. If a kids behavior that is overactive by a doctor the kid gets ritalin. It us pushed by big pharma just like oxy is pushed to over prescribing. Ritalin has become a recreational drug.

It helps some kids, but it is over applied. You might say some doctors practice pseudo medicine. They look up a symptom and pick a drug that is recommended. Either kids have dratcally changed in the last 50 years or doctors are going overboard.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylphenidate

https://psychcentral.com/lib/the-dr...gnosis-leads-to-over-prescription-of-ritalin/

Ritalin is over-prescribed as a medication for the treatment of supposed attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder in our children nowadays. Ritalin (also known by its generic name of methylphenidate) use has at least tripled in the past 5 years (1990-1995) and some studies suggest use is up an astounding 500%. Some psychiatrists and doctors are quick to explain away this increase as being due to a greater understanding of attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and a greater acceptance amongst parents of the effectiveness of Ritalin as a proper and useful treatment.

http://www.apa.org/topics/adhd/ritalin-debate.aspx

LMT woo? Who? They are required to have a knowledge of physiology. Massage works, much like running releases endorphins. Obviously you have never had a quality whole body massage.

My point is chiropractors are little more than physical therapists. Licensed physical therapists require two years of college, an internship, and testing.

Are you seriously trying to conflate the nonsense of acupuncture and chiro with Ritalin over-prescription? That's disingenuous at best. No-one would advise homeopathy for a kid with hyperactivity, except a complete fraud....oh, wait....

 

[steve_bank]

It has been well covered in the news. Ritalin for one. If a kids behavior that is overactive by a doctor the kid gets ritalin. It us pushed by big pharma just like oxy is pushed to over prescribing. Ritalin has become a recreational drug.

It helps some kids, but it is over applied. You might say some doctors practice pseudo medicine. They look up a symptom and pick a drug that is recommended. Either kids have dratcally changed in the last 50 years or doctors are going overboard.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylphenidate

https://psychcentral.com/lib/the-dr...gnosis-leads-to-over-prescription-of-ritalin/

Ritalin is over-prescribed as a medication for the treatment of supposed attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder in our children nowadays. Ritalin (also known by its generic name of methylphenidate) use has at least tripled in the past 5 years (1990-1995) and some studies suggest use is up an astounding 500%. Some psychiatrists and doctors are quick to explain away this increase as being due to a greater understanding of attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and a greater acceptance amongst parents of the effectiveness of Ritalin as a proper and useful treatment.

http://www.apa.org/topics/adhd/ritalin-debate.aspx

LMT woo? Who? They are required to have a knowledge of physiology. Massage works, much like running releases endorphins. Obviously you have never had a quality whole body massage.

My point is chiropractors are little more than physical therapists. Licensed physical therapists require two years of college, an internship, and testing.

Are you seriously trying to conflate the nonsense of acupuncture and chiro with Ritalin over-prescription? That's disingenuous at best. No-one would advise homeopathy for a kid with hyperactivity, except a complete fraud....oh, wait....

Are you ridiculously interpreting what I said?

 

[steve_bank]

Here in Wa the lowest level of physical therapist requires an associate degree. It can go up to PHD.

The typical therapists I had in the hospital and rehab had associated degrees. I had back nerve damages from an abcess that affected my legs and at one point my doctor refeder me to an MD sports injury specialist.

The none MD specialists are typically in physiology not therapy. Therapists will assist in rehab exercise and apply doctor prescribed therapy. That is my experience. Therapists can get grad degrees, but they don't get much back for it fron what I have seen.

I was not arguing ageist massage therapy, quite the opposite.

 

[phands]

Are you ridiculously interpreting what I said?

Not based on what you wrote. It looked like you were trying to justify quackery by saying Ritalin is massively over-prescribed....?

 

[whollygoats]

Are you ridiculously interpreting what I said?

Not based on what you wrote. It looked like you were trying to justify quackery by saying Ritalin is massively over-prescribed....?

Yeah...Where do you get off pointing out the egregious quackery that is the massively over-prescribed Ritalin paradigm?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The stats on drugs prescribed to kids is staggering.

In the 90s I went for acupuncture, the insurance company was running a study. They'd pay amf you write a report. The things being said to patients was pseudoscience of the highest order.

I ended up with a licensed massage therapist with in depth knowledge of physiology who worked wonders on my back. One session lasted several weeks.

For a serious problem, I'd go to a degreed physical therapist.

The woo factor certainly is high.

As I see it, a competent acupuncturist exorcises the demon infection with the holy penicillin. They've learned what works and made up a bunch of woo to explain why it works. There certainly is a placebo factor involved in some cases--but placebos can still help patients. When my wife (acupuncture) described to my mother (psychology, hypnosis) what she does to help patients quit smoking my mother immediately recognized it as fundamentally the same thing she would do--give the patient some reason to think it would work, give them a reinforcing technique when they are wavering. Yes, it's mostly if not all placebo--but it should be at least as effective as what the psychologist can do.

 

[whollygoats]

I think Phand's strident approach to the problem is way out of place. It is badly misdirected. For one, I don't think all that many people use homeopathic remedies and those that do use them for ailments that the medical community is notoriously bad about being able to treat themselves....common colds and back pain. This study from the Massachusetts General Hospital on homeopathic usage notes that they surveyed over 34,000 CIM users (that's 'complementary and integrative medicine', a grab-bag of various therapies) a grand total of 718 respondents admitted using homeopathic remedies and most of them did not see a practitioner.

Then, when one takes in to consideration these figures regarding the appalling position of the US medical community, I tend to think that the agitation of Phands and his/her ilk is dreadfully misplaced. The medical profession in the US is now rated at the third largest killer of Americans. I think the focus on rooting out the quackery already IN the American medical community....and it is corrupt to the core....is a far better objective than further demonizing an already deluded TINY minority. Okay, I'll accept that homeopathic remedies are quackery, but, so what? Compared to the travesty which the profit-motivated US physician, pharmaceutical, and medical devices communities perpetrate upon the US public the problem of homeopathic medicine is appallingly miniscule.

And Phands....You need to read the wiki entry for Wilk v. American Medical Association. The judge's observations are most amusing. Welcome to America.

 

[steve_bank]

larger supermarkets have large supplement scrions runn8ng from vitamins to homeopathic in some cases. They do not give up self space for what does not sell. Some supplements can be dangerous, label warnings not to mix with certain drugs.

The entire supplement industry is big business. There is a new one on TV by an ex football player for a supplement guaranteed to please your wife.

The industry has been hit with not supplying what is on the label and adding things not on the label. Same with vitamins.

Larry King infomercials made to look like a serious show and interview are laughable.

 

[whollygoats]

larger supermarkets have large supplement scrions runn8ng from vitamins to homeopathic in some cases. They do not give up self space for what does not sell. Some supplements can be dangerous, label warnings not to mix with certain drugs.

The entire supplement industry is big business. There is a new one on TV by an ex football player for a supplement guaranteed to please your wife.

The industry has been hit with not supplying what is on the label and adding things not on the label. Same with vitamins.

Larry King infomercials made to look like a serious show and interview are laughable.

Yeah, supplements....*sigh* I personally use CoQ-10 and it was recommended to me by an MD nephrologist as an answer to the muscle pain caused by statins. It works, for me.

Sports nutrition....ROFLMAO.

Look at the crap that passes for 'nutrition', usually with some MD carrying a tag line. Diet scams are still pervasive, and MDs are thick on the ground there, too.

None of that is homeopathic and all of it is far more corrosive.

 

[phands]

I don't care what you think of my position: homeopathy is utter dangerous garbage, and is banned in enlightened countries.

The judge's decision is just plain wrong - but that's not surprising either.

The rest of your diversion attempt is just noise.

 

[whollygoats]

I don't care what you think of my position: homeopathy is utter dangerous garbage, and is banned in enlightened countries.

The judge's decision is just plain wrong - but that's not surprising either.

The rest of your diversion attempt is just noise.

Fine.

And you're here to save us from homeopathy? Please....

Like I said, you are misdirected. Probably misguided, as well.

But, by all means, feel free to spout your unnecessary drivel all over the forum.

Do we even have anybody here who deigns to defend homeopathy? I have my doubts.

 

[phands]

I don't care what you think of my position: homeopathy is utter dangerous garbage, and is banned in enlightened countries.

The judge's decision is just plain wrong - but that's not surprising either.

The rest of your diversion attempt is just noise.

Fine.

And you're here to save us from homeopathy? Please....

Like I said, you are misdirected. Probably misguided, as well.

But, by all means, feel free to spout your unnecessary drivel all over the forum.

Do we even have anybody here who deigns to defend homeopathy? I have my doubts.

Well, homeopathy is indefensible.

 

[whollygoats]

I don't care what you think of my position: homeopathy is utter dangerous garbage, and is banned in enlightened countries.

The judge's decision is just plain wrong - but that's not surprising either.

The rest of your diversion attempt is just noise.

Fine.

And you're here to save us from homeopathy? Please....

Like I said, you are misdirected. Probably misguided, as well.

But, by all means, feel free to spout your unnecessary drivel all over the forum.

Do we even have anybody here who deigns to defend homeopathy? I have my doubts.

Well, homeopathy is indefensible.

Great....Are you happy now?

 

[phands]

Well, homeopathy is indefensible.

Great....Are you happy now?

Frankly, no. Homeopathy needs to be extirpated from the planet. It kills people needlessly.

 

[whollygoats]

Well, homeopathy is indefensible.

Great....Are you happy now?

Frankly, no. Homeopathy needs to be extirpated from the planet. It kills people needlessly.

FFS - Do you kick poor pathetic little cowering malnourished developmentally delayed children, too? What a fucking asshat.

Modern medicine kills hundreds of thousands of people needlessly each and every year in the United States alone. The National Institutes of Health confirm it.
You need to redirect your anger to where it might actually be productive.

 

[steve_bank]

larger supermarkets have large supplement scrions runn8ng from vitamins to homeopathic in some cases. They do not give up self space for what does not sell. Some supplements can be dangerous, label warnings not to mix with certain drugs.

The entire supplement industry is big business. There is a new one on TV by an ex football player for a supplement guaranteed to please your wife.

The industry has been hit with not supplying what is on the label and adding things not on the label. Same with vitamins.

Larry King infomercials made to look like a serious show and interview are laughable.

Yeah, supplements....*sigh* I personally use CoQ-10 and it was recommended to me by an MD nephrologist as an answer to the muscle pain caused by statins. It works, for me.

Sports nutrition....ROFLMAO.

Look at the crap that passes for 'nutrition', usually with some MD carrying a tag line. Diet scams are still pervasive, and MDs are thick on the ground there, too.

None of that is homeopathic and all of it is far more corrosive.

How do you know your pain relief was not placebo effect?


Did it make your dick bigger and fuller and enhance sexual stamina?