FDA wants to regulate homeopathy....Wooo peddlers wailing in anguish

[steve_bank]

Medicme is notpeerfect. Drugs that pass rigorous testing do have unforseen long term problems. Some have known risks and it is up to the patient to accept or reject any drug.

People used to routinely die from waht today are simple curs and injuries from infection. An abscessed tooth could be fatal. It is ignorant to compare the supplement market to mainstream medicine.

There are supplements that are beneficial and are unregulated. The consensus from doctors I had is that while some supplements are beneficial those that are usually are insignificant. If you start stuffing yourself with OTC supplements you risk problems.

Those supplements that are sold as testosterone precursors have been linked to heart damage.

 

[Juma]

I think Phand's strident approach to the problem is way out of place. It is badly misdirected. For one, I don't think all that many people use homeopathic remedies and those that do use them for ailments that the medical community is notoriously bad about being able to treat themselves....common colds and back pain. This study from the Massachusetts General Hospital on homeopathic usage notes that they surveyed over 34,000 CIM users (that's 'complementary and integrative medicine', a grab-bag of various therapies) a grand total of 718 respondents admitted using homeopathic remedies and most of them did not see a practitioner.

Then, when one takes in to consideration these figures regarding the appalling position of the US medical community, I tend to think that the agitation of Phands and his/her ilk is dreadfully misplaced. The medical profession in the US is now rated at the third largest killer of Americans. I think the focus on rooting out the quackery already IN the American medical community....and it is corrupt to the core....is a far better objective than further demonizing an already deluded TINY minority. Okay, I'll accept that homeopathic remedies are quackery, but, so what? Compared to the travesty which the profit-motivated US physician, pharmaceutical, and medical devices communities perpetrate upon the US public the problem of homeopathic medicine is appallingly miniscule.

And Phands....You need to read the wiki entry for Wilk v. American Medical Association. The judge's observations are most amusing. Welcome to America.

Linking ”ourcivilisation.com” is a big laugh. I checked on your link and figures are wildly innaccurate.
Here a conclusion from a paper that tried to replicate the study that gave the first number in the table:

CONCLUSION: Meta-analysis was invalid because of heterogeneity of the studies. Most of these studies did not report the data needed for incidence calculations. The methodology used was seriously flawed, and no conclusions regarding ADR incidence rates in the hospitalized population in the United States should be made on the basis of the original meta-analysis.

 

[whollygoats]

larger supermarkets have large supplement scrions runn8ng from vitamins to homeopathic in some cases. They do not give up self space for what does not sell. Some supplements can be dangerous, label warnings not to mix with certain drugs.

The entire supplement industry is big business. There is a new one on TV by an ex football player for a supplement guaranteed to please your wife.

The industry has been hit with not supplying what is on the label and adding things not on the label. Same with vitamins.

Larry King infomercials made to look like a serious show and interview are laughable.

Yeah, supplements....*sigh* I personally use CoQ-10 and it was recommended to me by an MD nephrologist as an answer to the muscle pain caused by statins. It works, for me.

Sports nutrition....ROFLMAO.

Look at the crap that passes for 'nutrition', usually with some MD carrying a tag line. Diet scams are still pervasive, and MDs are thick on the ground there, too.

None of that is homeopathic and all of it is far more corrosive.

How do you know your pain relief was not placebo effect?

I don't. But I don't care, either. Pain reduction was the goal and it was realized. It was effective, by whatever mechanism.

Did it make your dick bigger and fuller and enhance sexual stamina?

Nope. Nor did it promise to.

 

[whollygoats]

I think Phand's strident approach to the problem is way out of place. It is badly misdirected. For one, I don't think all that many people use homeopathic remedies and those that do use them for ailments that the medical community is notoriously bad about being able to treat themselves....common colds and back pain. This study from the Massachusetts General Hospital on homeopathic usage notes that they surveyed over 34,000 CIM users (that's 'complementary and integrative medicine', a grab-bag of various therapies) a grand total of 718 respondents admitted using homeopathic remedies and most of them did not see a practitioner.

Then, when one takes in to consideration these figures regarding the appalling position of the US medical community, I tend to think that the agitation of Phands and his/her ilk is dreadfully misplaced. The medical profession in the US is now rated at the third largest killer of Americans. I think the focus on rooting out the quackery already IN the American medical community....and it is corrupt to the core....is a far better objective than further demonizing an already deluded TINY minority. Okay, I'll accept that homeopathic remedies are quackery, but, so what? Compared to the travesty which the profit-motivated US physician, pharmaceutical, and medical devices communities perpetrate upon the US public the problem of homeopathic medicine is appallingly miniscule.

And Phands....You need to read the wiki entry for Wilk v. American Medical Association. The judge's observations are most amusing. Welcome to America.

Linking ”ourcivilisation.com” is a big laugh. I checked on your link and figures are wildly innaccurate.
Here a conclusion from a paper that tried to replicate the study that gave the first number in the table:

CONCLUSION: Meta-analysis was invalid because of heterogeneity of the studies. Most of these studies did not report the data needed for incidence calculations. The methodology used was seriously flawed, and no conclusions regarding ADR incidence rates in the hospitalized population in the United States should be made on the basis of the original meta-analysis.

You mean Lucian Leape's original article? Yeah, I understand that subsequent studies keep expanding the original 98,000 deaths/year postulated by Leape's estimates. I understand that the situation is much worse than originally thought. There is still a lot of squabbling over the figures, as I understand. The Institutes of Medicine released their 'To Err is Human' report in 1999, which reiterated the problem highlighted by Leape and his team. I understand that Leape issued a scathing five-year update report to Congress about how the medical community basically sat on their hands. I also note that, in that interim, subsequent researchers have changed the numbers of victims, but they have always been increased, as earlier studies evidently failed to take in to consideration the scope of the incompetence. Yet, nobody has backed away from there being an outrageous problem.

 

[Juma]

Linking ”ourcivilisation.com” is a big laugh. I checked on your link and figures are wildly innaccurate.
Here a conclusion from a paper that tried to replicate the study that gave the first number in the table:

You mean Lucian Leape's original article? Yeah, I understand that subsequent studies keep expanding the original 98,000 deaths/year postulated by Leape's estimates. I understand that the situation is much worse than originally thought. There is still a lot of squabbling over the figures, as I understand. The Institutes of Medicine released their 'To Err is Human' report in 1999, which reiterated the problem highlighted by Leape and his team. I understand that Leape issued a scathing five-year update report to Congress about how the medical community basically sat on their hands. I also note that, in that interim, subsequent researchers have changed the numbers of victims, but they have always been increased, as earlier studies evidently failed to take in to consideration the scope of the incompetence. Yet, nobody has backed away from there being an outrageous problem.

Eh? What the fuck? That is not true. There are a lot of articles showing how wrong it was. But you probably know this already and I have no time talking to a wall so...

 

[whollygoats]

Linking ”ourcivilisation.com” is a big laugh. I checked on your link and figures are wildly innaccurate.
Here a conclusion from a paper that tried to replicate the study that gave the first number in the table:

You mean Lucian Leape's original article? Yeah, I understand that subsequent studies keep expanding the original 98,000 deaths/year postulated by Leape's estimates. I understand that the situation is much worse than originally thought. There is still a lot of squabbling over the figures, as I understand. The Institutes of Medicine released their 'To Err is Human' report in 1999, which reiterated the problem highlighted by Leape and his team. I understand that Leape issued a scathing five-year update report to Congress about how the medical community basically sat on their hands. I also note that, in that interim, subsequent researchers have changed the numbers of victims, but they have always been increased, as earlier studies evidently failed to take in to consideration the scope of the incompetence. Yet, nobody has backed away from there being an outrageous problem.

Eh? What the fuck? That is not true. There are a lot of articles showing how wrong it was. But you probably know this already and I have no time talking to a wall so...

Excuse me....But 'To Err Is Human', the IOM report, which is based largely upon Leape's work, is still considered the milestone for patient safety and the measure upon whether any improvement has been made. There is a shipload of squabbling about the estimated numbers, but they are still fucking huge. Are you telling me that his work, and the work of countless others since, is all wrong?

In a recent article in Academic Medicine, Dr. Leape and his associates opened by stating,

The slow pace of improvement in patient safety has been a source of widespread dissatisfaction for policy makers and the public, but even more to the health professions. Despite extensive efforts by many institutions and individuals, recent studies show little improvement in the rate of preventable patient harm since the Institute of Medicine’s (IOM’s) “To Err Is Human” sounded the alarm and issued its call for a nationwide safety improvement effort 12 years ago.
One explanation for this poor record is that the problem is so large and its causes are so varied. For example, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that 5,000 people acquire an infection in our hospitals every day, and the IOM estimates that 1.5 million patients are injured by medication errors every year. Other reasons include our lack of knowledge of how to prevent most complications of treatment, inadequate government investment in patient safety initiatives, and insufficient preventive and remedial measures.

So...Twelve years or more out and they are still throwing around a lot of gee-whiz numbers. Can we agree that this is a huge problem? One that affects more than just a few wingnuts focused upon their sympathetic magic potions? One which potentially affects the 98% or more of the population which relies upon medical care?

 

[Juma]

Eh? What the fuck? That is not true. There are a lot of articles showing how wrong it was. But you probably know this already and I have no time talking to a wall so...

Excuse me....But 'To Err Is Human', the IOM report, which is based largely upon Leape's work, is still considered the milestone for patient safety and the measure upon whether any improvement has been made. There is a shipload of squabbling about the estimated numbers, but they are still fucking huge.

Bullshite. And you know it. Especially since to err is human definitely is not based on leape’s work. Yes they mentions leape’s 98000 number but only as a unsecure upper guess.

Anyway. Your entire tirade about deaths in healthcare is nothing but a strawman:noone here says that nobody dies die to maltreayment, just that the figures are wildly exaggregated. And a perfect example of whataboutism.

Its just a way to get away from the real issue that homoepathy is a big fraud. A deatly one.

 

[whollygoats]

Eh? What the fuck? That is not true. There are a lot of articles showing how wrong it was. But you probably know this already and I have no time talking to a wall so...

Excuse me....But 'To Err Is Human', the IOM report, which is based largely upon Leape's work, is still considered the milestone for patient safety and the measure upon whether any improvement has been made. There is a shipload of squabbling about the estimated numbers, but they are still fucking huge.

Bullshite. And you know it. Especially since to err is human definitely is not based on leape’s work. Yes they mentions leape’s 98000 number but only as a unsecure upper guess.

And subsequent revisions of that number since have regularly revised that number upwards. That is what I know.

Anyway. Your entire tirade about deaths in healthcare is nothing but a strawman:noone here says that nobody dies die to maltreayment, just that the figures are wildly exaggregated. And a perfect example of whataboutism.

We are discussing the risks of relying upon health care advise from those who would suggest sympathetic magic. They are, in many instances, reverting to sympathetic magic via homeopathic remedies because they DO NOT TRUST THE MEDICAL PROFESSION TO ACT IN THEIR BEST INTERESTS. And, they have more than enough proof of that in that hospitals have proven a 'place to go to die'....even if you are healthy.

Its just a way to get away from the real issue that homoepathy is a big fraud. A deatly one.

No, it is an attempt to reframe the issue in a way that more sufferers from bad medicine and bad science might realize relief from the predators who prey upon them. Homeopathy might be a deadly fraud, but it pales in comparison to the frauds being carried out upon millions of unwitting medical patients in the name of 'medicine'. The size of the suffering imposed by modern medicine makes the paltry few who rely upon the delusions of homeopathy look fucking puny. Has anyone here claimed that homeopathy is effective or worth protecting? No. Is it worth getting all het up about snuffing it out? No. Particularly when you pointedly ignore the weaknesses and corruption of the only other system available to treat health crises.

I happen to think it better to invest time and energy in to reducing the morbidity and mortality attributable to medical error, reducing addiction to opioids and other over-prescribed pharmaceuticals, finding a means to effectively combat nosocomial infections, and cessation of overuse of antibiotics, than stamping out a relatively tiny fringe whackjob homeopathic remedies market. I think you need to change your priorities.

 

[bilby]

Bullshite. And you know it. Especially since to err is human definitely is not based on leape’s work. Yes they mentions leape’s 98000 number but only as a unsecure upper guess.

And subsequent revisions of that number since have regularly revised that number upwards. That is what I know.

Anyway. Your entire tirade about deaths in healthcare is nothing but a strawman:noone here says that nobody dies die to maltreayment, just that the figures are wildly exaggregated. And a perfect example of whataboutism.

We are discussing the risks of relying upon health care advise from those who would suggest sympathetic magic. They are, in many instances, reverting to sympathetic magic via homeopathic remedies because they DO NOT TRUST THE MEDICAL PROFESSION TO ACT IN THEIR BEST INTERESTS. And, they have more than enough proof of that in that hospitals have proven a 'place to go to die'....even if you are healthy.

Its just a way to get away from the real issue that homoepathy is a big fraud. A deatly one.

No, it is an attempt to reframe the issue in a way that more sufferers from bad medicine and bad science might realize relief from the predators who prey upon them. Homeopathy might be a deadly fraud, but it pales in comparison to the frauds being carried out upon millions of unwitting medical patients in the name of 'medicine'. The size of the suffering imposed by modern medicine makes the paltry few who rely upon the delusions of homeopathy look fucking puny. Has anyone here claimed that homeopathy is effective or worth protecting? No. Is it worth getting all het up about snuffing it out? No. Particularly when you pointedly ignore the weaknesses and corruption of the only other system available to treat health crises.

I happen to think it better to invest time and energy in to reducing the morbidity and mortality attributable to medical error, reducing addiction to opioids and other over-prescribed pharmaceuticals, finding a means to effectively combat nosocomial infections, and cessation of overuse of antibiotics, than stamping out a relatively tiny fringe whackjob homeopathic remedies market. I think you need to change your priorities.

$7.5 Billion (with a 'B') per annum doesn't strike me as 'relatively tiny'. It sounds like a lot of people getting fleeced for a lot of their hard earned cash by a bunch of well organized fraudsters.

For comparison, it is approximately equal to the total dollar value of ALL credit card crime (misuse of lost/stolen cards, counterfeit cards, and 'card not present' frauds) in the US.

 

[whollygoats]

And subsequent revisions of that number since have regularly revised that number upwards. That is what I know.



We are discussing the risks of relying upon health care advise from those who would suggest sympathetic magic. They are, in many instances, reverting to sympathetic magic via homeopathic remedies because they DO NOT TRUST THE MEDICAL PROFESSION TO ACT IN THEIR BEST INTERESTS. And, they have more than enough proof of that in that hospitals have proven a 'place to go to die'....even if you are healthy.

Its just a way to get away from the real issue that homoepathy is a big fraud. A deatly one.

No, it is an attempt to reframe the issue in a way that more sufferers from bad medicine and bad science might realize relief from the predators who prey upon them. Homeopathy might be a deadly fraud, but it pales in comparison to the frauds being carried out upon millions of unwitting medical patients in the name of 'medicine'. The size of the suffering imposed by modern medicine makes the paltry few who rely upon the delusions of homeopathy look fucking puny. Has anyone here claimed that homeopathy is effective or worth protecting? No. Is it worth getting all het up about snuffing it out? No. Particularly when you pointedly ignore the weaknesses and corruption of the only other system available to treat health crises.

I happen to think it better to invest time and energy in to reducing the morbidity and mortality attributable to medical error, reducing addiction to opioids and other over-prescribed pharmaceuticals, finding a means to effectively combat nosocomial infections, and cessation of overuse of antibiotics, than stamping out a relatively tiny fringe whackjob homeopathic remedies market. I think you need to change your priorities.

$7.5 Billion (with a 'B') per annum doesn't strike me as 'relatively tiny'. It sounds like a lot of people getting fleeced for a lot of their hard earned cash by a bunch of well organized fraudsters.

For comparison, it is approximately equal to the total dollar value of ALL credit card crime (misuse of lost/stolen cards, counterfeit cards, and 'card not present' frauds) in the US.

Hmmm....I'm certainly not going to pay the $49/month to find out how they are defining 'homeopathic and herbal'. I'd guess that the 'herbal' portion could be any fucking thing. And yes, the herbal supplements market in the US is fuckin' huge....but it ain't homeopathic. It's naturopathic. A slightly different set of scammers. Very closely related to the whole pharmacological paradigm; a vestigial structure, actually. Still....it palls in comparison to the pharmaceutical industry, which buys and sells congresscritters like baseball cards, all based upon the revenues generated by the largest fucking shell game on the planet.

ETA: And while that may look like a big number, keep in mind that pharmaceutical manufacturer, Wyeth, paid out over $21 billion (that's with a 'b', too) in legal costs for just one bad formulation, Fen-Phen. (Ten years later, Wyeth was absorbed by Pfizer.) So, let us keep in mind that the ENTIRE homeopathic AND herbal market is valued at about a third of what one pharmaceutical company paid out in legal fees when they fuck up big time, once....So, yeah, I guess those homeopathic compounders must be just one forkin' HUGE combine that would disappear in the crack of a single pharmaceutical company's margin of error oopsy fund. Gosh!

 

[bilby]

$7.5 Billion (with a 'B') per annum doesn't strike me as 'relatively tiny'. It sounds like a lot of people getting fleeced for a lot of their hard earned cash by a bunch of well organized fraudsters.

For comparison, it is approximately equal to the total dollar value of ALL credit card crime (misuse of lost/stolen cards, counterfeit cards, and 'card not present' frauds) in the US.

Hmmm....I'm certainly not going to pay the $49/month to find out how they are defining 'homeopathic and herbal'. I'd guess that the 'herbal' portion could be any fucking thing. And yes, the herbal supplements market in the US is fuckin' huge....but it ain't homeopathic. It's naturopathic. A slightly different set of scammers. Very closely related to the whole pharmacological paradigm; a vestigial structure, actually. Still....it palls in comparison to the pharmaceutical industry, which buys and sells congresscritters like baseball cards, all based upon the revenues generated by the largest fucking shell game on the planet.

ETA: And while that may look like a big number, keep in mind that pharmaceutical manufacturer, Wyeth, paid out over $21 billion (that's with a 'b', too) in legal costs for just one bad formulation, Fen-Phen. (Ten years later, Wyeth was absorbed by Pfizer.) So, let us keep in mind that the ENTIRE homeopathic AND herbal market is valued at about a third of what one pharmaceutical company paid out in legal fees on one bad formulation....so, yeah, those homeopathic compounders must be just one forkin' HUGE combine.

Well, I suppose it's nice to see that whataboutism isn't limited to partisan political discourse. But that doesn't render it any less fallacious.

Homeopaths are scammers who need to be held criminally liable for their fraud. This remains true even if other criminals are getting away with worse crimes.

 

[whollygoats]

$7.5 Billion (with a 'B') per annum doesn't strike me as 'relatively tiny'. It sounds like a lot of people getting fleeced for a lot of their hard earned cash by a bunch of well organized fraudsters.

For comparison, it is approximately equal to the total dollar value of ALL credit card crime (misuse of lost/stolen cards, counterfeit cards, and 'card not present' frauds) in the US.

Hmmm....I'm certainly not going to pay the $49/month to find out how they are defining 'homeopathic and herbal'. I'd guess that the 'herbal' portion could be any fucking thing. And yes, the herbal supplements market in the US is fuckin' huge....but it ain't homeopathic. It's naturopathic. A slightly different set of scammers. Very closely related to the whole pharmacological paradigm; a vestigial structure, actually. Still....it palls in comparison to the pharmaceutical industry, which buys and sells congresscritters like baseball cards, all based upon the revenues generated by the largest fucking shell game on the planet.

ETA: And while that may look like a big number, keep in mind that pharmaceutical manufacturer, Wyeth, paid out over $21 billion (that's with a 'b', too) in legal costs for just one bad formulation, Fen-Phen. (Ten years later, Wyeth was absorbed by Pfizer.) So, let us keep in mind that the ENTIRE homeopathic AND herbal market is valued at about a third of what one pharmaceutical company paid out in legal fees on one bad formulation....so, yeah, those homeopathic compounders must be just one forkin' HUGE combine.

Well, I suppose it's nice to see that whataboutism isn't limited to partisan political discourse. But that doesn't render it any less fallacious.

Homeopaths are scammers who need to be held criminally liable for their fraud. This remains true even if other criminals are getting away with worse crimes.

Yep....Bishop bilby, alright.

Star-quality fuckwit.

Context and perspective ought to count for something.

 

[whollygoats]

Heh....Well, whatabout you obfuscating the definitions and throwing out gee-whiz numbers to wow the rubes?

You do know that every society only has so many resources to bring to bear on any set of problems. By spending your time and energy enforcing your righteousness against those who believe silly superstitions which, by and large, harm only themselves, you absent those resources from enforcing the righteousness against those who actually lie, cheat, steal, plunder and loot at much greater levels, and make the lives of many more people than the just the superstitious miserable. Indeed, not only do you not address a problem much greater in scope, you actively avoid dealing with it and slur those who think it should be dealt with....I'd say that the hue and cry to hunt down the homeopaths is naught but a diversionary tactic to draw attention away from the real problems of a perverse medical system. You would kick the poor benighted deluded and malnourished heretical crone rather than deal with the pederast priests who rape your children. And that is the analog that those who refuse to address the problem of a perverse medical system...pharmaceutical representatives and charlatan huckster doctors are the pederast priests of the health care system. And now you want to protect them.... Congrats, bilby.

 

[southernhybrid]

First, I just wanted to clarify something. Every state in the US now requires a physical therapist to have a doctorate degree, and those with an associate degree aren't PTs. They are PTAs, physical therapist assistants. They do pretty much the same thing as the PT but the PT must make the initial assessment, and write the care plan, then the PTA can carry out the plan under the supervision of the PTA. I've had physical therapy earlier this year for neck pain. It didn't help much at all, but I do the exercises that I was taught and it has made my pain tolerable now. I don't want surgery or injections that sometimes have dangerous side effects.

I have a sister that is a strong believer in chiropractors. She has rather severe back pain and claims that her pain is relieved after her sessions. Sure, it might be a placebo, but placebos aren't necessarily bad thing when it comes to pain relief. Since it's almost impossible to get opioid Rxs. these days for severe pain without being treated like a criminal, I think anyone that can get relief from a placebo should be thankful. One study that I read about several years ago, discovered that some people are helped by placebos even when they are told they are being given a placebo. When I was a young nurse, I remember one patient who received much better relief from pain if she was given an injection of sterile water compared to a tablet of codeine. So, at the direction of her physician, we gave her the injections. I don't think they do that anymore, but at least it helped the patient.

Many drugs that have gone through the FDA process have dangerous side effects. Rxs. are supposed to be written on a basis of risk v. benefit. If you have hypertension and you don't want to take something for your blood pressure, you put yourself at risk for stroke, kidney failure and heart attack. Sometimes these medications have adverse side effects but most people prefer to lower their risk to those serious diseases, so they take them. On the other hand, the risks of say, erectile dysfunction drugs can have very dangerous, but usually rare side effects, so a man might decide to forgo sex rather than risk the side effects. Or he might want to take the risk of side effects rather than not be able to have sex. It's all about risk v. benefit. But, it probably would be good if supplements etc. were regulated to some extent. At least people would have a better idea of what the research said, instead of blindly taking things just because some Internet doctor said they work.

 

[steve_bank]

Yes there are categorical differences between a therapist and an assistant, nut no PHD is required.

The therapists in my rehab facility looked at my records and came up with a plan for rehab. My doctors were not involved. They worked independently.

There are therapists who come imto the facity I am in as contactors helping people with exercise.

Did you take the Berg Test by any chance?

 

[whollygoats]

MDs have been handing out placebos like candy for generations. But, hey, anybody but a doctor passes them out, some folks get their nose outta joint.

Take a couple and chill out.

If that doesn't work, you might have to step it up to Damitol, or even Fukitol.

 

[bilby]

 

[whollygoats]

The bishop is in the building!

Everybody....Have a Zeebo and chill out!

Let's watch and see if the bishop will whip the crowd in to a frenzy in anticipation of a forced public immolation of a homeopath on the altar of SCIENCE.

Damn...He's doing such a bang-up job of saving us from the marginal whackjobs of the world...don't you think?

 

[bilby]

The bishop is in the building!

Everybody....Have a Zeebo and chill out!

Let's watch and see if the bishop will whip the crowd in to a frenzy in anticipation of a forced public immolation of a homeopath on the altar of SCIENCE.

Damn...He's doing such a bang-up job of saving us from the marginal whackjobs of the world...don't you think?

Your crazed overreaction to the suggestion that your pet woo is woo does more to discredit your position than anything I, or anyone else, could say.

Keep up the good work!

 

[whollygoats]

The bishop is in the building!

Everybody....Have a Zeebo and chill out!

Let's watch and see if the bishop will whip the crowd in to a frenzy in anticipation of a forced public immolation of a homeopath on the altar of SCIENCE.

Damn...He's doing such a bang-up job of saving us from the marginal whackjobs of the world...don't you think?

Your crazed overreaction to the suggestion that your pet woo is woo does more to discredit your position than anything I, or anyone else, could say.

Keep up the good work!

Me? I thought you were here to pillory some poor dumb and deluded heretic...a homeopath, y'know? I figured you might martyr one right here in the thread. For science, an' all....

But now I'm not sure, since you are not making a whole lot of sense. Which woo do you think is my 'pet woo'?

Just asking for a friend.