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Female Privilege or Femme Fatale?

That is not possible, since I did not strawman anyone.
Yes, you did, when you took a specific statement and generalised it.
You wrote "an appeal that no male con artist could have exercised on a male investor. "
Which I immediately followed by clarifying the nature of the appeal, and which you have snipped in your response.
Anyone familiar with the English language and reading comprehension will spout that as a straw man.
Of course it was a straw man. It was meant to be a straw man. It shows you how obvious your own straw man was.
The conjecture that an attractive teenaged white woman made a difference to heterosexual male investors is not relevant to the opinion that no man could have accomplished what Ms. Holmes did.
Yes, it is relevant. It is a mechanism which Holmes had which no male con artist can employ.
 
you suggesting Madoff was sexually appealing to heterosexual male investors?

No!
How hard is this?
It is apparently exceedingly difficult for people to understand that men and women are treated differently in society.

Madoff was an ugly old dude who ran a great scam without benefit of being a hot Californian teen girl.
Where did I imply that sex appeal was necessary to run every scam? I didn't.

Being as hot as Holmes was a bit of an advantage. But the premise that her scam was unique because she's hot is ridiculous.
No: nobody said her scam was unique because she was hot. What was said was that no man could have pulled off what she did. Her sex appeal could be part of that but it wouldn't be all of it. I explained other possible reasons she was successful where a man would not have been, unrelated to her sex appeal. In particular:
* People who believe in the patriarchy would probably say women's ideas are often overlooked, while men get too easy a pass for their ideas. Therefore, savvy investors would assume that Holmes's idea was better than it appeared on the surface because her idea would have had to go through the extra, prejudicial vetting (by others) to get to the startup stage.
* Some investors support startups led by women solely because they are led by women. There are investment capital firms that are formed solely around this concept.

Hot chicks run all kinds of scams, but usually to achieve this level requires an older mentor.
Someone like Balwani.
Tom
Nobody contended Holmes could have done it on her own. The contention was that no man could pull off what she did, which was peddle an obviously scientifically impossible idea into a 4.5 billion dollar company. I have yet to see any substantial response to this, although I have seen substantial strawmanning of it.
 
The contention was that no man could pull off what she did,

And mine is that a man did. Balwani.

A male pulled that off. She was a tool. Useful, but unimportant. Balwani could have replaced her in an evening on the internet. Blonde bimbos with great boobs, smooth talkers, are easy to come by.
Tom
 
That is not possible, since I did not strawman anyone.
Yes, you did, when you took a specific statement and generalised it.
You wrote "an appeal that no male con artist could have exercised on a male investor. "
Which I immediately followed by clarifying the nature of the appeal, and which you have snipped in your response.
You wrote what you wrote. I find your post-hoc explanation unconvincing.
Anyone familiar with the English language and reading comprehension will spout that as a straw man.
Of course it was a straw man. It was meant to be a straw man. It shows you how obvious your own straw man was.
As you persist in confirming, you have no idea what a straw man is.
The conjecture that an attractive teenaged white woman made a difference to heterosexual male investors is not relevant to the opinion that no man could have accomplished what Ms. Holmes did.
Yes, it is relevant. It is a mechanism which Holmes had which no male con artist can employ.
You seem unable to stick to the subject. It is not relevant to the issue that no man could have pulled off the same scam as Ms. Holmes.
 
The contention was that no man could pull off what she did,

And mine is that a man did. Balwani.

A male pulled that off. She was a tool. Useful, but unimportant. Balwani could have replaced her in an evening on the internet. Blonde bimbos with great boobs, smooth talkers, are easy to come by.
Tom
Ah yes. It was always the male mastermind. Women don't have the brains to pull off conning people, and they don't have the moral agency to be blamed for it even when they do.

:rolleyes:
 
The contention was that no man could pull off what she did,

And mine is that a man did. Balwani.

A male pulled that off. She was a tool. Useful, but unimportant. Balwani could have replaced her in an evening on the internet. Blonde bimbos with great boobs, smooth talkers, are easy to come by.
Tom
But without her? She was the face of it. She was the long sought female tech star. Criticizes her? How dare you, you misogynist bastard.

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You wrote what you wrote. I find your post-hoc explanation unconvincing.
It wasn't a post hoc explanation. It was a sentence that you snipped that immediately followed the sentence you quoted. That you do not know that the sentences in a paragraph are connected is another sign of the failure of your primary school education. But you knew enough to know it was necessary to snip the sentence in order for your straw man to look more plausible.
You seem unable to stick to the subject. It is not relevant to the issue that no man could have pulled off the same scam as Ms. Holmes.
Whether a man could have pulled off the same scam that Holmes did is indeed relevant to the issue of whether a man could have pulled off the same scam that Holmes did.
 
The contention was that no man could pull off what she did,

And mine is that a man did. Balwani.

A male pulled that off. She was a tool. Useful, but unimportant. Balwani could have replaced her in an evening on the internet. Blonde bimbos with great boobs, smooth talkers, are easy to come by.
Tom
Ah yes. It was always the male mastermind. Women don't have the brains to pull off conning people, and they don't have the moral agency to be blamed for it even when they do.

:rolleyes:

I said no such thing.
Blonde bimbos run scams on dudes all the time.

In this particular case, I think it was mostly Balwani. I doubt that Holmes could have managed all that by herself, due to her age. Give her another 20 years of experience and she might be running the World Bank.
Who knows?

But, no, your misogyny doesn't resonate with me at all. You might think that women don't have the brains to scam people, but I know they do. I believe that she was just young and got in way over her head.
Tom
 
You wrote what you wrote. I find your post-hoc explanation unconvincing.
It wasn't a post hoc explanation....

It came after the fact - so it is a post hoc explanation. I understand paragraphs and words. You wrote what you wrote. I am not responsible for your sloppiness.
You seem unable to stick to the subject. It is not relevant to the issue that no man could have pulled off the same scam as Ms. Holmes.
Whether a man could have pulled off the same scam that Holmes did is indeed relevant to the issue of whether a man could have pulled off the same scam that Holmes did.
Your tautology is a tribute to the depth of your analysis. but it is off point.

You and Trausti claim that no man could have pulled off the same scam as Ms. Holmes. Scams do not require sexual appeal. The conjecture that Ms. Holmes's attractiveness or sexual appeal is relevant to Ms. Holmes's effectiveness in scamming in this context, but it is completely irrelevant to the issue of whether a man could have scammed investors.
 
It came after the fact - so it is a post hoc explanation. I understand paragraphs and words. You wrote what you wrote. I am not responsible for your sloppiness.
It isn't post hoc. It is in the original post that you quoted, but you snipped it out.
You and Trausti claim that no man could have pulled off the same scam as Ms. Holmes. Scams do not require sexual appeal. The conjecture that Ms. Holmes's attractiveness or sexual appeal is relevant to Ms. Holmes's effectiveness in scamming in this context, but it is completely irrelevant to the issue of whether a man could have scammed investors.
Does the inconsistency within your own paragraph even register to you?

Neither Trausti nor I claimed that a man could not scam investors. That claim is nowhere to be found. That claim is a strawman version of the claim that Trausti actually made and that you appear to be aware of--that no man could have pulled off the same scam as Holmes.

No man could have pulled off what Holmes did (which was to scam investors to the tune of a 4.5 billion dollars with an obviously scientifically impossible idea) (sentence A)

does not equal

No man could have scammed investors. (sentence B)

A is not B. You strawmanned A into B in order to dismiss A, but A is not B.
 
I said no such thing.
Blonde bimbos run scams on dudes all the time.
Why do you think Holmes is a blonde bimbo?
But, no, your misogyny doesn't resonate with me at all. You might think that women don't have the brains to scam people, but I know they do. I believe that she was just young and got in way over her head.
It is not my misogyny. It's yours. I think Holmes had the brains and the charisma to scam people, and she did. I did not displace her moral agency onto a man like you did.
 
No man could have pulled off what Holmes did (which was to scam investors to the tune of a 4.5 billion dollars with an obviously scientifically impossible idea) (sentence A)

Why do you think that only Holmes, or someone like her, could have pulled this off?
That's the bottom line here.

Why do you believe that it required a woman to accomplish this?

Tom
 
No man could have pulled off what Holmes did (which was to scam investors to the tune of a 4.5 billion dollars with an obviously scientifically impossible idea) (sentence A)

Why do you think that only Holmes, or someone like her, could have pulled this off?
That's the bottom line here.

Why do you believe that it required a woman to accomplish this?

Tom
I already explained in post #230 and over several posts how Holmes' sex could have been necessary (though not sufficient) in pulling off such a fraud.

And, to clear up the straw men that will inevitably arise again, this is not a claim that only women can scam people. It is not a claim that sex appeal is necessary or sufficient to scam people.

Also, the statement 'no man could pull this off' would be contradicted by any evidence that a man peddled an obviously scientifically impossible idea in the biotech space into a multi-billion dollar company.
 
It came after the fact - so it is a post hoc explanation. I understand paragraphs and words. You wrote what you wrote. I am not responsible for your sloppiness.
It isn't post hoc. It is in the original post that you quoted, but you snipped it out.
It is post hoc - it came way after your post in question.
You and Trausti claim that no man could have pulled off the same scam as Ms. Holmes. Scams do not require sexual appeal. The conjecture that Ms. Holmes's attractiveness or sexual appeal is relevant to Ms. Holmes's effectiveness in scamming in this context, but it is completely irrelevant to the issue of whether a man could have scammed investors.
Does the inconsistency within your own paragraph even register to you?

Neither Trausti nor I claimed that a man could not scam investors. That claim is nowhere to be found. That claim is a strawman version of the claim that Trausti actually made and that you appear to be aware of--that no man could have pulled off the same scam as Holmes.
You keep repeating that canard.
No man could have pulled off what Holmes did (which was to scam investors to the tune of a 4.5 billion dollars with an obviously scientifically impossible idea) (sentence A)
That claim does not require any conjectures about Ms. Holmes's attractiveness or sexual appeal to the investor.
So why did you bring it up?
does not equal

No man could have scammed investors. (sentence B)

A is not B. You strawmanned A into B in order to dismiss A, but A is not B.
Your continuing repetition of a falsehood does not make it true, no matter how many times you repeat that falsehood.
 
It is post hoc - it came way after your post in question.
You quoting one sentence then snipping out the next sentence is a dishonest quoting method. I'm not going to argue about this further.
That claim does not require any conjectures about Ms. Holmes's attractiveness or sexual appeal to the investor.
So why did you bring it up?
I was explaining the mechanisms, related to Holmes's sex, that could make the conjecture plausible.

I'm awaiting evidence that any man has peddled an obviously scientifically impossible idea in the biotech industry into a multi-billion dollar company. That would contradict Trausti's conjecture pretty quickly.
 
Are you suggesting Madoff was sexually appealing to heterosexual male investors?

Madoff ran a wealth management fund. A wealth management fund is not an obviously fraudulent biotech scam.
They were both fraudulent schemes. They were both selling something that didn't exist. It makes no difference what they were selling.
 
Are you suggesting Madoff was sexually appealing to heterosexual male investors?

Madoff ran a wealth management fund. A wealth management fund is not an obviously fraudulent biotech scam.
They were both fraudulent schemes. They were both selling something that didn't exist. It makes no difference what they were selling.
Of course it makes a difference for the reasons I've already explained. A wealth management fund is a thing that can exist and indeed they do exist and indeed some of them can beat the market spectacularly (genuinely beat the market, not a Ponzi scheme, but it's just luck). Madoff did not need to persuade people on an impossible biotech invention. Nobody would have invested in Madoff because he was a female leader in a STEM field (because he isn't).

We live in a world where society reacts differently to men and women. It beggars belief that I have to explain this. And, because of this difference and certain contexts (like the desire for many people to support women leaders in STEM), Holmes was in a position to pull off a certain kind of scam that men are not in a position to pull off.
 
Also, the statement 'no man could pull this off' would be contradicted by any evidence that a man peddled an obviously scientifically impossible idea in the biotech space into a multi-billion dollar company.
What makes you think it was a scientific impossibility? And what are your qualifications to make that determination?
 
Also, the statement 'no man could pull this off' would be contradicted by any evidence that a man peddled an obviously scientifically impossible idea in the biotech space into a multi-billion dollar company.
What makes you think it was a scientific impossibility?
The fact that it is one. And the pathologists who say it is impossible.



And what are your qualifications to make that determination?
I am confident that I can use my own brain to understand arguments.
 
Also, the statement 'no man could pull this off' would be contradicted by any evidence that a man peddled an obviously scientifically impossible idea in the biotech space into a multi-billion dollar company.
What makes you think it was a scientific impossibility?
The fact that it is one. And the pathologists who say it is impossible.


You do know the date that video was posted was December 30, 2021, less than a month ago. Do you have anyone that said the same in 2012?
And what are your qualifications to make that determination?
I am confident that I can use my own brain to understand arguments.
So where are the 2012 arguments?
 
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