First Amendment and Gray Water Treatment?!

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The Amish around here will ride in a car, use a cell phone, use a nail gun, etc. But they won't drive a car. It's so phony.

 

[Toni]

Their practices (modern uses) depend on the community they belong to.

A large Amish community of about 36,000 exists in Northeast-Central Ohio, centered on Holmes County and extending into surrounding counties.[28] The Holmes Old Order Amish affiliation, with 140 church districts out of 221 in the Holmes County Amish settlement in 2009, is the main and dominant Amish affiliation.[29] Holmes County houses the highest percentage of Amish of any U.S. county, currently 42 percent of the population, and experts speculate that by 2027, Holmes County could become the first county in the US where more than half the residents were Amish.[30] The Amish & Mennonite Heritage Center in Berlin explains traditional ways of the Amish and provides an illustrated history for visitors in its 10-foot-by-265-foot mural.[31]

The overall Amish population of the area, centered on Holmes County, is the largest Amish community in the world.[28] Called locally "Amish Country", it draws many visitors to the county, thus making tourism an important sector of the local economy.

In Holmes County Amish Settlements there are several Old Order Amish affiliations. The Holmes Old Order Amish affiliation is the main and original affiliation, the Swartzentruber Amish with three subgroups, that originated in 1917 in Holmes County, are the most conservative Amish in Holmes county. There are also Andy Weaver Amish(formed 1952), Stutzman-Troyer Amish, Old Order Tobe Amish and Roman Amish on the conservative side, whereas the New Order Amish (formed in the early 1960s), the New Order Tobe Amish the New Order Amish Christian Fellowship are on the more progressive side. Holmes County is home of more Amish affiliations than any other place in the world.[32][33]

At what point in time will this grey water affect the water table? I'm sure these folks have been there and draining their grey water directly onto the surface of the land for decades if not centuries. If it hasn't affected the ground water yet, what is the concern?

And this is just horseshit:

Filmore County has been pursuing the case against the Schwartzentruber Amish community since 2006, and at one point the county asked for an order to declare the Amish homes uninhabitable if they did not install septic systems.

What dickery. To cause such distress among these good people.
Of all the god awful stuff that leaches into the soil from farms and golf courses, let's go after these tiny groups of pacifists who ask for nothing and are always willing to lend a hand.

The notion that Amish are necessarily "good people" depends on one's standards. IMO, good people do not treat animals poorly which the Amish do in my neck of the woods.

I agree that runoff from golf course and farms needs serious addressing, but that does not absolve other forms of runoff and contamination from potential action.

Furthermore, I wonder how do these Amish deal with toilet water and other sewage? One would expect that treatment of that type of sewage would also work for gray water.

AFAIK, the Amish use outhouses ( and chamber pots). Outhouses used to simply be covered over with soil and a new pit dug when needed. I don’t know the current practices. I do know that many state parks use different types of outhouses or chemical latrines in areas where more modern plumbing is not practical— or possible. Same thing with remote cabins, etc.

 

[Gospel]

Florida transforms into a winter retreat akin to Las Vegas for some Amish individuals. While there are numerous small, scattered communities, there is an intriguing commonality - a coexistence with off-grid electric devices, primarily air conditioning units, a necessity given the state's climate. They're more liberal than their norther counterparts. Likely because they came here to escape the "cold".

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The court's stance, as articulated in this document, does not deny the county's interest in the matter. Instead, it acknowledges such interest, but demands empirical proof that the proposed solution inflicts the minimal possible damage on the Amish's rights. Given that this is a conflict involving the rights of citizens versus governmental actions, I consider the court's request for evidence reasonable.

I consider polluting the water table grossly unethical. SCOTUS has no business meddling in engineering.

It depends on where the water table is. Locally, nobody's going to be drinking the near-surface water anyway--wells are always drilled to the deep water.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I’m actually uncertain what the Amish objections to a septic system are, except cost. The use of electricity? This seems inconsistent because Amish will ride in cars, use telephones and certainly shop in modern stores.

AFIAK septic systems do not use electricity except perhaps for monitoring. They're a pure gravity system unless you're in a location where you need boosting. (Drains must have a certain amount of rise over run and septic fields have a minimum distance above the water. If this makes it impossible then you have to use a booster pump--but that can happen with flat terrain and normal sewers as well.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In my view, 1st amendment rights should not override any threat to health, safety and life from polluting a natural resource.

I hope that state of Mn comes up with some actual evidence to support any regulation. I suspect the state of Mn will act to study this because water issues are becoming more important here. For far too long, the state has taken water for granted.

It sounds to me like the court it simply saying to prove the regulations are needed.

The denser the population the more precautions are needed with sewer systems and governments are inclined to one-size-fits-all rules that aren't always relevant. Rather than blanket measures it should be based on lot size and how far from the edge of the lot things are coming out.

State law here prohibits non-vault outhouses but if you're on a huge ranch it's really not an issue. If you're in a suburban neighborhood it would be an issue even if you had a vault outhouse.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

AFAIK, the Amish use outhouses ( and chamber pots). Outhouses used to simply be covered over with soil and a new pit dug when needed. I don’t know the current practices. I do know that many state parks use different types of outhouses or chemical latrines in areas where more modern plumbing is not practical— or possible. Same thing with remote cabins, etc.

In modern times every outhouse I've seen has been a vault design. When it's full it's pumped. Every such outhouse I've seen has been in a place with vehicular access, although I have seen one where the required vehicle is a boat. (The landward approach is not passable to any vehicle I am aware of, nor horses. There is also no place a helicopter could land.)

 

[Toni]

AFAIK, the Amish use outhouses ( and chamber pots). Outhouses used to simply be covered over with soil and a new pit dug when needed. I don’t know the current practices. I do know that many state parks use different types of outhouses or chemical latrines in areas where more modern plumbing is not practical— or possible. Same thing with remote cabins, etc.

In modern times every outhouse I've seen has been a vault design. When it's full it's pumped. Every such outhouse I've seen has been in a place with vehicular access, although I have seen one where the required vehicle is a boat. (The landward approach is not passable to any vehicle I am aware of, nor horses. There is also no place a helicopter could land.)

There definitely are places which are remote enough that I’m skeptical of pumping as a periodic maintenance. I can still remember when both sets of grandparents ts got indoor plumbing ( beyond the pump in the kitchen sink. I have no idea how a full outhouse was handled— I was pretty young at the time.

 

[Toni]

I’m actually uncertain what the Amish objections to a septic system are, except cost. The use of electricity? This seems inconsistent because Amish will ride in cars, use telephones and certainly shop in modern stores.

AFIAK septic systems do not use electricity except perhaps for monitoring. They're a pure gravity system unless you're in a location where you need boosting. (Drains must have a certain amount of rise over run and septic fields have a minimum distance above the water. If this makes it impossible then you have to use a booster pump--but that can happen with flat terrain and normal sewers as well.)

I’m wondering if the location in that particular area of Minnesota ( karst) would require specific technology for septic systems. Aside from the Amish, it’s a pretty rural area—and also not far from the Mississippi. Karst can involve easily contaminated water ways underground…

 

[TV and credit cards]

Types of Septic Systems