First World American Problems - What to do with the School Shooters who lived?

[Jimmy Higgins]

Ain't it somethin'? You have a school. Some person shoots it up. They survive, go to trial, get convicted, life in prison with a chance at parole.

All is grand and dandy, life as usual... well except for all the victims, both families of the dead and the ones that survived and were wounded (and their families), and the ones who were "only" mentally scarred. Fine and dandy until parole pops up. And then America needs to ask themselves, "what are we doing here?!"

The Heath High School shooter, who killed three and wounded five, is up for parole, post 25 years in prison. And we find ourselves in a very uncomfortable position... well... some of us do. Some are like "give him the chair!" and they really just don't care. Quite content on either capitol punishment or losing the key.

But others! They are wondering, what in the world is parole for... when talking about someone that committed an atrocious and utterly unnecessary act? What is the Justice System for? Post 25 years, was it feasibly possible for this person to epiphany up and be ready for release? What is required for him to be ready for release? What do the victims get to say about it?

This appears to be the first case of its type in America, where we are dealing with the long-term judicial issues of locking up people that committed mass school killings* (* in 1997, 3 dead would have been considered mass killing). Personally, I have a hard time thinking a person who is around 40 should get out of a life sentence. Of course, he has spent something like 60% of his life in jail. But if we aren't comfortable with releasing the killer after 25 years... why is it even an option to begin with? If we aren't willing to discuss redemption as a person over a period of 25 years, when the killer has actually become an adult, should we even be putting it out there?

 

[steve_bank]

Here in Seattle a violent offender who was released killd and offended again. He has been deemed incolpetent to stand trial and orderd to have psychiatric treatment. The facility is full so the stae was ordered to pay him $205 per day.

Washington ordered to pay alleged violent criminal $250 a day

(The Center Square) – A man charged in two separate attacks in a Seattle light rail station will receive $250 every day he does not receive mental health treatment.

www.thecentersquare.com

Mass shooters should be given treatment and returned to society?

Maybe we are being too benevolent.

Execution or mandatory life without parole.

Police convicted of using excessive force can be jailed. Why be squeamish about someone who plans and executes mass murder?

 

[Gospel]

If we can't bear to kill him (which we should) revoke his citizenship and deport the MF. Yeah it's unfair for another country to have to take him but I'm sure there is a few that wouldn't notice or give a crap if he's dumped from a helicopter.

 

[hyzer]

As for school shooters that are released, I’d gladly give a pass to any parent (that lost a child) that wants to take justice into their own hands. Perhaps we can make it so the school shooters revoke their request for parole…

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If we can't bear to kill him (which we should) revoke his citizenship and deport the MF. Yeah it's unfair for another country to have to take him but I'm sure there is a few that wouldn't notice or give a crap if he's dumped from a helicopter.

Didn't the people we do that too in So Cal. become MS-13 in Central America?

 

[Oleg]

As for school shooters that are released, I’d gladly give a pass to any parent (that lost a child) that wants to take justice into their own hands. Perhaps we can make it so the school shooters revoke their request for parole…

Yeah. If the state refuses to exercise its monoploy on violence, people can engage in self help.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

As for school shooters that are released, I’d gladly give a pass to any parent (that lost a child) that wants to take justice into their own hands.

Justice? That'd be revenge. The person has served more than half of their life in prison. 25 years doesn't seem enough, but again, why offer parole if we can't stomach it?

Thankfully there are no a lot of these cases... yet, but what is the purpose of having them be alive to live in prison for 65 to 75 years (or roughly 4 to 5 times the amount of time they lived outside of prison)?

 

[southernhybrid]

I doubt such a person would be given parole, but perhaps if he behaved well while in jail and had some good mental health care, he might be ready for a prison for non violent offenders, where he could be a trustee, like the men who work in my Senior Center. Well....maybe.... Maybe just transfer him to a prison with better food and more comfortable beds.

If the killer was in his teens, his brain wasn't fully developed, so perhaps he could be helped. Prison is supposed to be for rehab, not punishment, imo as a humanist. But, we must keep violent people separated from the rest of us. Is this killer still potentially violent? Have the reasons that influenced him to commit such a crime been investigated?

Has he been given treatment to help him overcome whatever it was that influenced him? Or, is he a hopeless psychopath, with no known cure for this horrible brain condition? If so, he must not be released as he still poses a. threat to others. He should remain in prison for the safety of others. Being up for parole, doesn't mean one's prison sentence is over.

People tend to get very emotional about such issues. I'm not into an eye for an eye form of punishment and I don't accept the concept of free will, so anyone could be the victim of the same genetic and environmental influences as the killer, and end up committing a similar crime. Do what is best and safest for all involved, including the killer. If he requests euthanasia, that would be acceptable too imo.

Regardless, this is the type of situation, that doesn't have an easy solution, as people will never come to an agreement on what should be done.



But, I'm PWI, so cut me some slack.

 

[Gospel]

If we can't bear to kill him (which we should) revoke his citizenship and deport the MF. Yeah it's unfair for another country to have to take him but I'm sure there is a few that wouldn't notice or give a crap if he's dumped from a helicopter.

Didn't the people we do that too in So Cal. become MS-13 in Central America?

MS-13 came from here?

 

[TV and credit cards]

14 at the time. A professional assessment should be done and if it is determined he is not a threat to society, he should be paroled. Lord knows what prison has done to him though.

For me, first and foremost it is if an individual who has shown through a pattern of behavior to be a detriment to society. One act, regardless of how heinous does not show that, not at age 14. It is the repeat violent offenders, those who prey on society and have shown they do so knowingly, repeatedly, and without remorse. Those are the ones who deserve death. It could be a history of rapes, beatings, and muggings without killing. Death. Be it by injection, electrocution, hanging, firing squad, or bungie.

 

[zorq]

I agree with TV&CC. If he is broken he should stay locked up. But if he is normal-ish, psychiatricly speaking, he should get a chance outside.

 

[steve_bank]

When I was growing up this did not happen.

What has changed in the culture?

There was a 60s incident at my high school in Stamford Ct. Stanford Catholic.

A student had a blow up with a teacher. He came in the next day with a rifle and went up on the roof, and shot himself in te head. We had to go into the halls because he had a line of sight in the classrooms.

Boy, 15, Commits Suicide On Stamford School Roof (Published 1968)

McGuinness, Kevin

www.nytimes.com

STAMFORD, Conn., Sept. 19 -- A 15-year-old sophomore at Stamford Catholic High School shot himself in the head on the roof of the School building today and died two hours later at St. Joseph's Hospital. View Full Article in Timesmachine »

It has always been there. Nothing on the scale of violence today.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

When I was growing up this did not happen.

What has changed in the culture?

You Steve. You changed in the culture. This all on you.

There was a 60s incident at my high school in Stamford Ct. Stanford Catholic.

A student had a blow up with a teacher. He came in the next day with a rifle and went up on the roof, and shot himself in te head. We had to go into the halls because he had a line of sight in the classrooms.

Boy, 15, Commits Suicide On Stamford School Roof (Published 1968)

McGuinness, Kevin

www.nytimes.com

STAMFORD, Conn., Sept. 19 -- A 15-year-old sophomore at Stamford Catholic High School shot himself in the head on the roof of the School building today and died two hours later at St. Joseph's Hospital. View Full Article in Timesmachine »

It has always been there. Nothing on the scale of violence today.

Socially little has changed in America that hasn't changed in Europe or Canada. So that leads me back to you Steve. Because you don't live in Europe or Canada... but where school shootings have been endemic. Really, there is no where else to look, but at you. I suppose we are also to suppose that it is merely a coincident crime has gone up notably in Seattle... where you live? Time to fess up.

 

[steve_bank]

I disagree. Culture has become more violent.

On TV and in movies there is an endless stream of violence.

When kids play video games and get points for killing culture has changed. In the 90s there was a rape video game kids were playing.

While there was violence in movies and early TV, there was also a social norm that violence is a last resort. Killers were the bad guys. Now killers are no longer bad guys in the movies and TV, they can be exciting heros.

Young people who commit mass murder are products of culture.

 

[zorq]

I disagree. Culture has become more violent.

On TV and in movies there is an endless stream of violence.

When kids play video games and get points for killing culture has changed. In the 90s there was a rape video game kids were playing.

While there was violence in movies and early TV, there was also a social norm that violence is a last resort. Killers were the bad guys. Now killers are no longer bad guys in the movies and TV, they can be exciting heroes.

Young people who commit mass murder are products of culture.

Classic westerns are filled with violent heroes. TV and comic books and movies in the 40's 50's and 60's were filled with soldiers and cowboys killing for glory and "justice". Almost all literature classics, have some extremely violent heroes. Consider Shakespeare and Homer. I don't buy this "the kids are positioned by media" garbage. Especially considering that, statistically, modern western democracies are some of the safest and least violent places to live of all time.

 

[bilby]

When I was growing up this did not happen.

Yes, it really did.

What has changed in the culture?

It's gotten somewhat less violent and more likely to correctly identify the perpetrators of crime.

That your beliefs are the reverse of reality should tell you that you need to stop trusting your biases, and start looking for hard empirical evidence, rather than anecdotes that buttress those biases.

But of course, it's very unlikely that you will do that.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If we can't bear to kill him (which we should) revoke his citizenship and deport the MF. Yeah it's unfair for another country to have to take him but I'm sure there is a few that wouldn't notice or give a crap if he's dumped from a helicopter.

Revoke it how? The US (along with most of the world) has signed treaties prohibiting making someone stateless. Note that this applies even to voluntary acts--US citizenship can only be renounced at a US embassy in another country and can only be done if you show you have citizenship elsewhere.

 

[laughing dog]

This particular eligible parolee is in Kentucky. Does anyone really think this killer has a chance in hell of getting paroled soon?

 

[ZiprHead]

Mass murder of children goes back a long way.

Andrew Kehoe | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers

Murderpedia, the free online encyclopedic dictionary of murderers. The largest database about serial killers, mass murderers and spree killers around the world

murderpedia.org

A.K.A.: "The Bath School murderer"

Classification: Mass murderer

Characteristics: The bombings comprised the deadliest act of mass murder in a school in U.S. history

Number of victims: 44

Date of murder: May 18, 1927

Date of birth: February 1, 1872

Victims profile: 3 men, 3 women (including his wife) and 38 children

Method of murder: Bombings (dynamite and hundreds of pounds of pyrotol)

Location: Bath Township, Michigan, USA

Status: Committed suicide the same day (killed in the explosions)

 

[bilby]

Mass murder of children goes back a long way.

Andrew Kehoe | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers

Murderpedia, the free online encyclopedic dictionary of murderers. The largest database about serial killers, mass murderers and spree killers around the world

murderpedia.org

A.K.A.: "The Bath School murderer"

Classification: Mass murderer

Characteristics: The bombings comprised the deadliest act of mass murder in a school in U.S. history

Number of victims: 44

Date of murder: May 18, 1927

Date of birth: February 1, 1872

Victims profile: 3 men, 3 women (including his wife) and 38 children

Method of murder: Bombings (dynamite and hundreds of pounds of pyrotol)

Location: Bath Township, Michigan, USA

Status: Committed suicide the same day (killed in the explosions)

But I thought this didn't happen when Steve Bank was growing up??

Surely you're not suggesting that he was already a grumpy old man in 1927?