Flouridation: Calgary reaps what the crazies sowed

[Loren Pechtel]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...hemophobes-over-fluoridation/article28814768/

Congratulations on +2 cavities.

 

[Derec]

Precious bodily fluids.

 

[bilby]

It's just like fluoridation, but with ground wheat.

 

[Metaphor]

Water flouridation, like vaccination, was one of the public health triumphs of the 20th Century.

And, just like vaccination, people now are all too willing to reap the benefits and then deny the source of those benefits.

And, just like parents who don't vaccinate their children, it'll be the children who suffer.

Jesus wept.

 

[braces_for_impact]

This is one of those hot button issues that many conspiracy theorists get their knickers in a twist about.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

It's just like fluoridation, but with ground wheat.

Cute.

What caught my attention in the article was the reference to bottled water and how the drinking of (unfluoridated) bottled water is thought to be healthier by large groups of idiots. Never mind the additional cost and environmental impact of drinking bottled water, I just never associated it with additional tooth decay. Stupid me.

But these things are typical backlash from idiots who never experienced the conditions before the fix. I swear we're going to see some group somewhere demand that cities stop treating water and simply pump it into homes in all its pristine bacterial and microbial beauty.

 

[DBT]

I don't think that comparing fluoridation with immunization is a fair comparison because, unlike immunization, it is reasonably easy to take care of one's own teeth.

The latter being an issue of education personal responsibility. The same measures that improve dental health, reducing processed carbs, cleaning after meals, etc, also improves and maintains overall health.

 

[Metaphor]

I don't think that comparing fluoridation with immunization is a fair comparison because, unlike immunization, it is reasonably easy to take care of one's own teeth.

The latter being an issue of education personal responsibility. The same measures that improve dental health, reducing processed carbs, cleaning after meals, etc, also improves and maintains overall health.

Public health is not measured on whether some alternative 'personal responsibility' method could in theory achieve results. Public health is measured on the systemic changes that are achieved by public health initiatives.

 

[Axulus]

I don't think that comparing fluoridation with immunization is a fair comparison because, unlike immunization, it is reasonably easy to take care of one's own teeth.

The latter being an issue of education personal responsibility. The same measures that improve dental health, reducing processed carbs, cleaning after meals, etc, also improves and maintains overall health.

Your argument might be one worth looking at if the benefits of water fluoridation fell almost entirely onto adults. However, that is not the case. The benefits fall almost entirely on children and children alone, especially those who are in low income households.

 

[Rhea]

I don't think that comparing fluoridation with immunization is a fair comparison because, unlike immunization, it is reasonably easy to take care of one's own teeth.

The latter being an issue of education personal responsibility. The same measures that improve dental health, reducing processed carbs, cleaning after meals, etc, also improves and maintains overall health.

I disagree. I live in a place that does not have fluoridated water. So I take my kids to the dentist regularly, and they receive periodic fluoride treatments. Also I buy and enforce use of toothpaste and decent brushing technique.

My neighbors, however, do NOT all have the opportunity to go to a dentist regularly. Nor are they all educated enough to make teeth education a priority to their kids.

So quite a few of my neighbors do not have any modern protection for their teeth and will expect the same cycle as their parents - starting to loose them in their 40s and earlier.

Many of these arguments; fluoridation, food, sex education, vaccines etc, where people say, "oh come on, _I_ don't need this," make the mistake of assuming that everyone in the picture is equally capable. They aren't. And society benefits, in my estimation, from taking care of those who _don't_ have average education and responsibility.

The fact that all of these things are trivially easy for me does not (and should not) erase my knowledge that it is not easy for everyone.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Clearly we aren't putting enough mind controlling toxins in the chemtrails. Damned budget cuts!

Water flouridation, like vaccination, was one of the public health triumphs of the 20th Century.

And, just like vaccination, people now are all too willing to reap the benefits and then deny the source of those benefits.

And, just like parents who don't vaccinate their children, it'll be the children who suffer.

Jesus wept.

Fluoridation causes brain damage and makes people lethargic, easier to control. Mainstream science has hidden this and covered it up from the people. Here, look at these mainstream peer reviewed studies on the dangers of fluoride.

 

[Metaphor]

Clearly we aren't putting enough mind controlling toxins in the chemtrails. Damned budget cuts!

Water flouridation, like vaccination, was one of the public health triumphs of the 20th Century.

And, just like vaccination, people now are all too willing to reap the benefits and then deny the source of those benefits.

And, just like parents who don't vaccinate their children, it'll be the children who suffer.

Jesus wept.

Fluoridation causes brain damage and makes people lethargic, easier to control. Mainstream science has hidden this and covered it up from the people. Here, look at these for the list in Box 1 of mainstream peer reviewed studies on the dangers of fluoride.

Box 1

I've made the point a bit less subtle.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Clearly we aren't putting enough mind controlling toxins in the chemtrails. Damned budget cuts!Fluoridation causes brain damage and makes people lethargic, easier to control. Mainstream science has hidden this and covered it up from the people. Here, look at these for the list in Box 1 of mainstream peer reviewed studies on the dangers of fluoride.

Box 1

I've made the point a bit less subtle.

Actually I was just saying what I've been told online before. It is a huge lie... the science is clear, but being covered up. Then they give you studies to read (such as an area in China where natural fluoride in the water is at very very high levels), but when you cite other studies... those are part of the cover up... here check out this mainstream peer reviewed paper.

 

[arkirk]

I don't think that comparing fluoridation with immunization is a fair comparison because, unlike immunization, it is reasonably easy to take care of one's own teeth.

The latter being an issue of education personal responsibility. The same measures that improve dental health, reducing processed carbs, cleaning after meals, etc, also improves and maintains overall health.

Your argument might be one worth looking at if the benefits of water fluoridation fell almost entirely onto adults. However, that is not the case. The benefits fall almost entirely on children and children alone, especially those who are in low income households.

So you are saying keep fluoridating for the sake of the minimum wage earners' children? I think the problem is one of somebody assuming that there is an easy way to reduce dental caries that does not involve the attention of those that are protected. This really isn't true. There are risks associated with fluoridating water supplies particularly if the water is over fluoridated. The usual agent is sodium flouride and that is a deadly poison. You get enough fluoride from brushing your teeth or using a rinse. It is easy to overdo the significance and the dosage of fluoride. I don't think it belongs in drinking water.

 

[bilby]

Your argument might be one worth looking at if the benefits of water fluoridation fell almost entirely onto adults. However, that is not the case. The benefits fall almost entirely on children and children alone, especially those who are in low income households.

So you are saying keep fluoridating for the sake of the minimum wage earners' children? I think the problem is one of somebody assuming that there is an easy way to reduce dental caries that does not involve the attention of those that are protected. This really isn't true. There are risks associated with fluoridating water supplies particularly if the water is over fluoridated. The usual agent is sodium flouride and that is a deadly poison. You get enough fluoride from brushing your teeth or using a rinse. It is easy to overdo the significance and the dosage of fluoride. I don't think it belongs in drinking water.

EVERYTHING is a deadly poison. Everything is also harmless. It's all about dose. And the doses used in municipal water supplies do VASTLY more good than harm.

There are risks with EVERYTHING. Including inaction.

Your post is a litany of utterly stupid non-arguments. You really are on a roll today.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Your argument might be one worth looking at if the benefits of water fluoridation fell almost entirely onto adults. However, that is not the case. The benefits fall almost entirely on children and children alone, especially those who are in low income households.

So you are saying keep fluoridating for the sake of the minimum wage earners' children? I think the problem is one of somebody assuming that there is an easy way to reduce dental caries that does not involve the attention of those that are protected. This really isn't true. There are risks associated with fluoridating water supplies particularly if the water is over fluoridated. The usual agent is sodium flouride and that is a deadly poison.

Vitamin B6 can be a deadly poison.

You get enough fluoride from brushing your teeth or using a rinse. It is easy to overdo the significance and the dosage of fluoride. I don't think it belongs in drinking water.

It actually isn't that simple to overdo it.

 

[Metaphor]

So you are saying keep fluoridating for the sake of the minimum wage earners' children?

No; keep flouridating because of the public health benefits.

I think the problem is one of somebody assuming that there is an easy way to reduce dental caries that does not involve the attention of those that are protected.

There is. It's flouridation.

 

[arkirk]

So you are saying keep fluoridating for the sake of the minimum wage earners' children? I think the problem is one of somebody assuming that there is an easy way to reduce dental caries that does not involve the attention of those that are protected. This really isn't true. There are risks associated with fluoridating water supplies particularly if the water is over fluoridated. The usual agent is sodium flouride and that is a deadly poison. You get enough fluoride from brushing your teeth or using a rinse. It is easy to overdo the significance and the dosage of fluoride. I don't think it belongs in drinking water.

EVERYTHING is a deadly poison. Everything is also harmless. It's all about dose. And the doses used in municipal water supplies do VASTLY more good than harm.

There are risks with EVERYTHING. Including inaction.

Your post is a litany of utterly stupid non-arguments. You really are on a roll today.

You don't know what you are talking about fella. I worked for years in the desert removing toxic quantities of fluoride from well water for private well owners with solar distillers. I got variances for dual system use of over mineralized water from those wells. Fluoride is a toxic material in very low concentrations. Perhaps you should ask yourself why the germs that cause caries are dying and the teeth are surviving....also if it doesn't have other effects on bone and if it causes tooth mottling in concentrations less than 1.5 mg/L. You really need to study fluoride before you talk about it.

 

[arkirk]

So you are saying keep fluoridating for the sake of the minimum wage earners' children? I think the problem is one of somebody assuming that there is an easy way to reduce dental caries that does not involve the attention of those that are protected. This really isn't true. There are risks associated with fluoridating water supplies particularly if the water is over fluoridated. The usual agent is sodium flouride and that is a deadly poison.

Vitamin B6 can be a deadly poison.

You get enough fluoride from brushing your teeth or using a rinse. It is easy to overdo the significance and the dosage of fluoride. I don't think it belongs in drinking water.

It actually isn't that simple to overdo it.

It appears to be simple....You're doing it!

 

[bilby]

EVERYTHING is a deadly poison. Everything is also harmless. It's all about dose. And the doses used in municipal water supplies do VASTLY more good than harm.

There are risks with EVERYTHING. Including inaction.

Your post is a litany of utterly stupid non-arguments. You really are on a roll today.

You don't know what you are talking about fella.

Really? I am not the one whose posts are based on simple failures of reason and logic.

I worked for years in the desert removing toxic quantities of fluoride from well water for private well owners with solar distillers.

That's nice. Completely irrelevant to the topic of fluoridation of municipal water supplies, but nice.

I got variances for dual system use of over mineralized water from those wells.

Lovely. I am sure your parents would be proud of you. But that STILL has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Fluoride is a toxic material in very low concentrations.

Yes. And it is non-toxic at even lower concentrations. Just like EVERYTHING ELSE.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why the germs that cause caries are dying and the teeth are surviving...

OK, so you don't know the mechanism by which fluoride reduces caries, and think it is to do with killing bacteria. Well, I guess that explains why you are so convinced of your completely false beliefs on the topic. FYI, fluoride works by preventing (and in some cases reversing) the demineralisation of tooth enamel. It doesn't kill mouth bacteria at the concentrations used.

also if it doesn't have other effects on bone and if it causes tooth mottling in concentrations less than 1.5 mg/L.

Why would we care what happens at more than twice the recommended level? It's completely irrelevant

You really need to study fluoride before you talk about it.

That's good advice, and you should listen to it.

Being old doesn't make you knowledgeable; having tangential experience of a chemical in a completely different context doesn't make you knowledgeable. Even deriding the knowledge of people who you don't know jack-shit about, doesn't make you knowledgeable. Knowing stuff makes you knowledgeable. You should give it a try.