• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Flyover country -- Split from: Rape victim ordered to pay her abuser child support

Rhea

Cyborg with a Tiara
Staff member
Joined
Jan 31, 2001
Messages
14,947
Location
Recluse
Basic Beliefs
Humanist
In my area ( small college town flyover country) l


Toni, I have to ask, didn’t you just recently accuse urban progressives of disrespecting people by calling central USA “flyover country” and didn’t we respond by saying that the only place we hear this from is the people accusing?


It’s not “flyover country,” respectfully. It is midwest, or mississippi basin, or central USA, or a specifi state name. But “flyover country” is disrespectful.
 
In my area ( small college town flyover country) l


Toni, I have to ask, didn’t you just recently accuse urban progressives of disrespecting people by calling central USA “flyover country” and didn’t we respond by saying that the only place we hear this from is the people accusing?


It’s not “flyover country,” respectfully. It is midwest, or mississippi basin, or central USA, or a specifi state name. But “flyover country” is disrespectful.
In some respects it's like being gay and calling oneself a faggot.

When said by Toni, I read it, for whatever reason, as slightly pained over the fact that this is the briefest expedient to people understanding how she feels when thinking about her own area: overlooked and flown over.

When I read it, were I to say it myself these days or someone else not from such an area.... I would feel like it is an act itself of overlooking to say it.

I think the direction it comes from in the relationship of "city" vs "country" makes a lot of difference.

If someone from the country said "ivory tower", I would feel the same way as when someone from the city says "flyover".
 
In my area ( small college town flyover country) l


Toni, I have to ask, didn’t you just recently accuse urban progressives of disrespecting people by calling central USA “flyover country” and didn’t we respond by saying that the only place we hear this from is the people accusing?


It’s not “flyover country,” respectfully. It is midwest, or mississippi basin, or central USA, or a specifi state name. But “flyover country” is disrespectful.
Are you saying that I am adopting the language of my oppressors? I suppose that I am, but when I do it, it is ironic.

I have spent most of my life in various parts of the Midwest, and currently am living here mostly by choice. I’ve lived in large urban areas in the east and in the Midwest and near large urban areas in the midwest. One thing I’ve noticed since the first time I moved from one large urban area to another is that the urban area—whichever it is-/seems to behave and believe as if the world revolves around it, and relegates everything else as mere and insignificant satellites, orbiting it. It’s the 500 lb gorilla in the state or region. I remember feeling a bit…bemused at the idea. It was, to me, mostly benign. Small towns/rural areas also often see themselves as the ‘real’ America or real ( insert state). I’m not criticizing any of this—I get it. It’s home, whether you’re talking rural/small town/suburban/urban. It’s their normal, their reality. Their home, their reference point. Whichever POV you’re talking about. Having lived in small towns, large metropolitan areas, small bedroom communities and small towns, with kids currently living in some major cities—I truly appreciate all of them. I love the museums and entertainment and dining and shopping opportunities in big metropolitan areas but they’ve always made me feel claustrophobic—which is a me thing and not an argument against fir anyone other than me. I feel like some of the stereotypes are true but mostly they are not. It is possible to embrace your neighborhood or to be a recluse in your neighborhood, which ever type of neighborhood you choose.

In more recent years, maybe the last 10 or so, maybe longer, it has felt that there is a bigger and bigger divide between rural and urban areas. Dislike and distrust is fairly mutual but the derision and disrespect I hear directed at all of us poor ignorant incestuous rubes for not putting the needs and perspectives of city folk who are definitely our betters is palpable and mutually destructive. So much that we hear is that we are simply beneath consideration—just one big patch of flyover country, no need to even consider as the beautiful people fly overhead between their beautiful homes on the coast. At the same time, I don’t hear rural folks heap that link d of derision on city folks. A lot of our kids move there and we like to visit the city once in a while, even if it’s not where we want to live.

That derision, that disregard as not even being worth learning the names of our states has made it much, much, much easier to exploit the fears, the resentment of the disrespect ( real and perceived) the lack of self esteem ( our kids all move far away!!!!), the financial struggles, lack of genuine opportunities—to slip into crazy Trump World, where people are happy to talk about the big bad city folk and their evil ways ( and can’t wait to wade right into that swamp and make it even swampier). I see much more division now compared to 30 some years ago when we moved from big city to small town/rural the last time. MUCH more, and much, much, much uglier.

Hey, I watched my grandfather admire my father for his job in the city and to try not to feel insignificant for remaining on the struggling family farm. My kids sometimes talk about us ‘rents moving to be nearer to them in the same breath they talk about traffic and crime ( I know it is less than 50 years ago) and too many people in the stores, no parking, high costs, etc. next breath they are talk g about how much they miss being able to see the stars. They are visibly more relaxed here, in the town they couldn’t wait to escape. I get it. I get it all.

*note: I also try to be very vague about where I live. As I’ve mentioned before, I know people who have found people they know online suddenly appear on their doorstep ( unannounced and uninvited, and drunk) or call their homes, call their place of work and attempt to cause them problems, etc. Heck, I once found out an online friend—someone I really liked! was in my area and I arranged a meet up. I even paid for lunch. Turned out their spouse is a Very Big Deal in a small special interest groups, my friend managed them ( none of which I knew previously) and they really did expect the world to revolve around them and for me to jump through some significant hoops that would have put me in a bad spot re: my job…to satisfy their whim. And when I was unwilling to drive through a blizzard to jump through a hoop per their whim ( much less jeopardize my standing at work) , I became much less cool and I was repeatedly attacked on line. I left that online community. Ignorance may not be bliss but: I’m good with anonymous. No offense to anyone here.

Flyover country is very vague, self-deferential, possibly a little passive-aggressive and pretty anonymous. I’m cool with that.

To/dr: Don’t blame you.
 
Last edited:
I get everything you are saying aboug the differences and the feeling of home.

The point I was making was that you said in another thread that this divide was manifested in disdain such as calling the midwest “Flyover country”. I replied that this is frustrating because I experience this as a disdain that is reported by midwesterners, but the people I hear most often using that disdainful moniker are the midwesterners. In other words, it feels like a false accusation - a strawman. They say they hear it, but they hear it most often from themselves.

And then here you post in another place using the term. We don’t hear it here from our city dwellers, we are hearing it from you.

Hence, it feels like creating a divide where there isn’t one. Agitating to rub salt in the wound oneself so that it stays fresh.

I get all about the home feeling and the sense of pride. But this “disdain” that you reported prior and and reporting again now is a serious Moore-Coulter, and is being self-inflicted. I feel that my experience is that the country dwellers are FAR MORE disdainful. The contrast of one group perhaps saying “hicks, bumpkins,” maybe even “stupid” and other saying, “corrupt, thug, murderer, rapist”.

These are not a both sides kind of level.

I know they say these things because I live here and I have for my whole life. My perspective is broadened by extensive travel, but the largest city I’ve ever lived was 30,000, most have been under 3,000.


So when I saw you again being the one to create the divide by using the term that you, yourself, claimed was a term of disdain and one that supposedly defines the city dwellers as unreasonable, I saw it instead as a demonstration that the place we hear this term from is the country folk, not the city dwellers. A strawman.


(Tone alert - you know I love your posts and experience and thoughts, I am exploring this idea as I react to it.)
 
Back
Top Bottom