Friggin' OBAMAcare again!

[Malintent]

I got into a conversation with the kid that cuts my grass about his efforts to secure a job as a teacher, now that he has graduated from college (undergrad).

He said, with original emphasis his, "no school district is hiring new substitue teachers because of friggin' OBAMACARE, so I can't get a job for more than 4 days per week..."

When I asked him to explain what he meant, he said that new healthcare regulations require schools to provide benifits to employees that work more than 4 days per week.. so they are not hiring full time teachers, but instead only subs for one or two days per week, and he has to go to multiple school districts to get enough hours to support himslef (and still cut people's grass for that added income).

I asked him what he would think if there was a new regulation, informally called "SuperFair", that said that whenever a new teaching position was opened, that they must consider black teachers for the job, as well as non-black teachers... and if the school then decided by policy to not hire ANY new teachers because they didn't want to consider any black teachers for any new jobs, if he would be saying the same thing about "Friggin' SuperFair being the reason I can't get a job".

No, it is the school district using loopholes to avoid their responsibilities.

I am not sure he understood. It seems the social networking that the anti-American tea partyists have been doing has been very successfull. People are so goddamned gullible and manipulatable it is discusting. This kid (and so many others) are convinced that the bad behavior of those trying to skirt the rules are the reason the rules are bad.

Remove the bars from the bank vaults... too many bank robbers are hurting people trying to get into them.

 

[Bomb#20]

No, it is the school district using loopholes to avoid their responsibilities.

I am not sure he understood. It seems the social networking that the anti-American tea partyists have been doing has been very successfull. People are so goddamned gullible and manipulatable it is discusting. This kid (and so many others) are convinced that the bad behavior of those trying to skirt the rules are the reason the rules are bad.

Yeah, just like when those two bootlegger gangs were shooting it out over turf and I heard the passerby hit in the crossfire rasp out "Friggin' Prohibition". I told him the holes in his guts were the fault of bootleggers and speakeasy customers skirting the rules and avoiding their responsibilities, and that he was so goddamned gullible and manipulable it was disgusting, but I don't think he heard me.

 

[Malintent]

Did you expect the victim in your example to blame the prohibition law or the mafia shooter? Prohibition removed individual's rights to access liquor. Are you intending to imply that AHA removes people's rights to access health care?

 

[Factinista]

The prohibition analogy fails hard.. almost as much as that school for failing to provide jobs for the community. Some people are dicks, especially people who have a vested interest in something, like ideology or a profit making company.

Its unfortunate but people just don't want to pay people for doing things. Unless its government contracts for war and oil, then they'll pay you a shitload.

 

[untermensche]

The prohibition analogy fails hard.. almost as much as that school for failing to provide jobs for the community. Some people are dicks, especially people who have a vested interest in something, like ideology or a profit making company.

Its unfortunate but people just don't want to pay people for doing things. Unless its government contracts for war and oil, then they'll pay you a shitload.

The rich like to have the people that teach their children paid a lot.

They like to have their children in a small class size with a lot of individual attention.

They understand the importance of that only for their own children.

How are my children supposed to make it with an even playing field?

 

[dismal]

The prohibition analogy fails hard.. almost as much as that school for failing to provide jobs for the community. Some people are dicks, especially people who have a vested interest in something, like ideology or a profit making company.

Its unfortunate but people just don't want to pay people for doing things. Unless its government contracts for war and oil, then they'll pay you a shitload.

In the OP a government agency is reacting to a law passed by the government in ways that are not particularly surprising given the incentives in the law the government passed.

Given this case involves nothing but governments, I struggle to find even a slight relevance to your comments about "profit making companies".

 

[HaRaAYaH]

I got into a conversation with the kid that cuts my grass about his efforts to secure a job as a teacher, now that he has graduated from college (undergrad).

He said, with original emphasis his, "no school district is hiring new substitue teachers because of friggin' OBAMACARE, so I can't get a job for more than 4 days per week..."

When I asked him to explain what he meant, he said that new healthcare regulations require schools to provide benifits to employees that work more than 4 days per week.. so they are not hiring full time teachers, but instead only subs for one or two days per week, and he has to go to multiple school districts to get enough hours to support himslef (and still cut people's grass for that added income).

I asked him what he would think if there was a new regulation, informally called "SuperFair", that said that whenever a new teaching position was opened, that they must consider black teachers for the job, as well as non-black teachers... and if the school then decided by policy to not hire ANY new teachers because they didn't want to consider any black teachers for any new jobs, if he would be saying the same thing about "Friggin' SuperFair being the reason I can't get a job".

No, it is the school district using loopholes to avoid their responsibilities.

I am not sure he understood. It seems the social networking that the anti-American tea partyists have been doing has been very successfull. People are so goddamned gullible and manipulatable it is discusting. This kid (and so many others) are convinced that the bad behavior of those trying to skirt the rules are the reason the rules are bad.

Remove the bars from the bank vaults... too many bank robbers are hurting people trying to get into them.

Unless you are in the deep south, this has to complete BS. Health benefits, job descriptions and terms of employment are set by union contracts. No union would allow their workforce to made into part time players. This smells fishy.

 

[barbos]

I don't get it.
I thought teachers had insurance before ObamaCare, no?
Are you saying ObamaCare created an opportunity to drop insurance for teachers?
In any case, it seems clear that single payer insurance is a way to go. Employer should not even be allowed to offer insurances to employees.

 

[laughing dog]

I got into a conversation with the kid that cuts my grass about his efforts to secure a job as a teacher, now that he has graduated from college (undergrad).

He said, with original emphasis his, "no school district is hiring new substitue teachers because of friggin' OBAMACARE, so I can't get a job for more than 4 days per week..."

When I asked him to explain what he meant, he said that new healthcare regulations require schools to provide benifits to employees that work more than 4 days per week.. so they are not hiring full time teachers, but instead only subs for one or two days per week, and he has to go to multiple school districts to get enough hours to support himslef (and still cut people's grass for that added income).

I asked him what he would think if there was a new regulation, informally called "SuperFair", that said that whenever a new teaching position was opened, that they must consider black teachers for the job, as well as non-black teachers... and if the school then decided by policy to not hire ANY new teachers because they didn't want to consider any black teachers for any new jobs, if he would be saying the same thing about "Friggin' SuperFair being the reason I can't get a job".

No, it is the school district using loopholes to avoid their responsibilities.

I am not sure he understood. It seems the social networking that the anti-American tea partyists have been doing has been very successfull. People are so goddamned gullible and manipulatable it is discusting. This kid (and so many others) are convinced that the bad behavior of those trying to skirt the rules are the reason the rules are bad.

Remove the bars from the bank vaults... too many bank robbers are hurting people trying to get into them.

Unless you are in the deep south, this has to complete BS. Health benefits, job descriptions and terms of employment are set by union contracts. No union would allow their workforce to made into part time players. This smells fishy.

It is possible the union contract is not strong on this issue, and the school district is using the ACA as an excuse to use part-timers instead of full time employees. But, it does smell fishy.

 

[Toni]

I got into a conversation with the kid that cuts my grass about his efforts to secure a job as a teacher, now that he has graduated from college (undergrad).

He said, with original emphasis his, "no school district is hiring new substitue teachers because of friggin' OBAMACARE, so I can't get a job for more than 4 days per week..."

When I asked him to explain what he meant, he said that new healthcare regulations require schools to provide benifits to employees that work more than 4 days per week.. so they are not hiring full time teachers, but instead only subs for one or two days per week, and he has to go to multiple school districts to get enough hours to support himslef (and still cut people's grass for that added income).

I asked him what he would think if there was a new regulation, informally called "SuperFair", that said that whenever a new teaching position was opened, that they must consider black teachers for the job, as well as non-black teachers... and if the school then decided by policy to not hire ANY new teachers because they didn't want to consider any black teachers for any new jobs, if he would be saying the same thing about "Friggin' SuperFair being the reason I can't get a job".

No, it is the school district using loopholes to avoid their responsibilities.

I am not sure he understood. It seems the social networking that the anti-American tea partyists have been doing has been very successfull. People are so goddamned gullible and manipulatable it is discusting. This kid (and so many others) are convinced that the bad behavior of those trying to skirt the rules are the reason the rules are bad.

Remove the bars from the bank vaults... too many bank robbers are hurting people trying to get into them.

If your grass mowing friend is that gullible and that unable to engage in critical thinking, then I believe he has found his caing. As a mower of lawns. Without pesky benefits like health care.

 

[barbos]

I got into a conversation with the kid that cuts my grass about his efforts to secure a job as a teacher, now that he has graduated from college (undergrad).

He said, with original emphasis his, "no school district is hiring new substitue teachers because of friggin' OBAMACARE, so I can't get a job for more than 4 days per week..."

When I asked him to explain what he meant, he said that new healthcare regulations require schools to provide benifits to employees that work more than 4 days per week.. so they are not hiring full time teachers, but instead only subs for one or two days per week, and he has to go to multiple school districts to get enough hours to support himslef (and still cut people's grass for that added income).

I asked him what he would think if there was a new regulation, informally called "SuperFair", that said that whenever a new teaching position was opened, that they must consider black teachers for the job, as well as non-black teachers... and if the school then decided by policy to not hire ANY new teachers because they didn't want to consider any black teachers for any new jobs, if he would be saying the same thing about "Friggin' SuperFair being the reason I can't get a job".

No, it is the school district using loopholes to avoid their responsibilities.

I am not sure he understood. It seems the social networking that the anti-American tea partyists have been doing has been very successfull. People are so goddamned gullible and manipulatable it is discusting. This kid (and so many others) are convinced that the bad behavior of those trying to skirt the rules are the reason the rules are bad.

Remove the bars from the bank vaults... too many bank robbers are hurting people trying to get into them.

If your grass mowing friend is that gullible and that unable to engage in critical thinking, then I believe he has found his caing. As a mower of lawns. Without pesky benefits like health care.

Since when school is a place for critical thinking?
And maybe the guy got his bible studies degree from DeVry?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This has nothing to do with Obamacare, but rather it's the usual game of blaming cost-cutting on Obamacare.

Teachers normally have insurance anyway so there's no additional burden. It's just they're being cheap and hiring part-timers to avoid benefits, a game that has been going on long before Obamacare.

 

[Bomb#20]

Did you expect the victim in your example to blame the prohibition law or the mafia shooter?

What do you mean, "expect"? He's a character in a story, not a subject of an experiment.

Prohibition removed individual's rights to access liquor. Are you intending to imply that AHA removes people's rights to access health care?

Where do you get this stuff? I didn't say a bloody thing about rights. What I'm saying is that the very commonplace attitude you displayed in your OP, to the effect that provided policy makers mean well they bear no responsibility for the unintended but easily foreseeable consequences of their policy, is irrational.

 

[coloradoatheist]

I got into a conversation with the kid that cuts my grass about his efforts to secure a job as a teacher, now that he has graduated from college (undergrad).

He said, with original emphasis his, "no school district is hiring new substitue teachers because of friggin' OBAMACARE, so I can't get a job for more than 4 days per week..."

When I asked him to explain what he meant, he said that new healthcare regulations require schools to provide benifits to employees that work more than 4 days per week.. so they are not hiring full time teachers, but instead only subs for one or two days per week, and he has to go to multiple school districts to get enough hours to support himslef (and still cut people's grass for that added income).

I asked him what he would think if there was a new regulation, informally called "SuperFair", that said that whenever a new teaching position was opened, that they must consider black teachers for the job, as well as non-black teachers... and if the school then decided by policy to not hire ANY new teachers because they didn't want to consider any black teachers for any new jobs, if he would be saying the same thing about "Friggin' SuperFair being the reason I can't get a job".

No, it is the school district using loopholes to avoid their responsibilities.

I am not sure he understood. It seems the social networking that the anti-American tea partyists have been doing has been very successfull. People are so goddamned gullible and manipulatable it is discusting. This kid (and so many others) are convinced that the bad behavior of those trying to skirt the rules are the reason the rules are bad.

Remove the bars from the bank vaults... too many bank robbers are hurting people trying to get into them.

If your grass mowing friend is that gullible and that unable to engage in critical thinking, then I believe he has found his caing. As a mower of lawns. Without pesky benefits like health care.

It's not gullibility though, it's understanding how people respond to incentives. What would happen if the government passed a law that said if you use a babysitter for 4 hours or less you can pay them the normal wage but for the 5th hour or more you must pay $100 an hour?

- - - Updated - - -

This has nothing to do with Obamacare, but rather it's the usual game of blaming cost-cutting on Obamacare.

Teachers normally have insurance anyway so there's no additional burden. It's just they're being cheap and hiring part-timers to avoid benefits, a game that has been going on long before Obamacare.

But it's not just teachers, its a lot of business. The issue has been the impact and how many businesses have responded in the same way as the school district.

 

[ksen]

If your grass mowing friend is that gullible and that unable to engage in critical thinking, then I believe he has found his caing. As a mower of lawns. Without pesky benefits like health care.

It's not gullibility though, it's understanding how people respond to incentives. What would happen if the government passed a law that said if you use a babysitter for 4 hours or less you can pay them the normal wage but for the 5th hour or more you must pay $100 an hour?

Because that's exactly the same.

 

[coloradoatheist]

It's not gullibility though, it's understanding how people respond to incentives. What would happen if the government passed a law that said if you use a babysitter for 4 hours or less you can pay them the normal wage but for the 5th hour or more you must pay $100 an hour?

Because that's exactly the same.

It's more appropriate than the first alternate scenario. People and business wil respond to incentives and how much it's going to cost for either solution. Using more temporary workers to avoid the bigger bills with full health care is an alternative.

 

[scombrid]

Kid that cuts your grass needs to stick to mowing lawns. Schools played this game with substitute teachers in grade school and workloads for adjunct profs in teaching colleges long before Obamacare. If he made it through college unaware of that fact then he wasn't very well prepared. So he's just buying the bullshit that comes through the radio while he's driving between jobs.

 

[Toni]

If your grass mowing friend is that gullible and that unable to engage in critical thinking, then I believe he has found his caing. As a mower of lawns. Without pesky benefits like health care.

It's not gullibility though, it's understanding how people respond to incentives. What would happen if the government passed a law that said if you use a babysitter for 4 hours or less you can pay them the normal wage but for the 5th hour or more you must pay $100 an hour?

It IS gullibility: teachers ordinarily have health care as part of their compensation package. Obamacare has done NOTHING to change that fact. The rest is merely political grandstanding, something I've watched happen at school boards more than once, for a long time, on issues that have nothing to do with health care but rather some board members' political leanings. In fact, I am watching this happen in my own county right now. It is not Obamacare locally, but it is personal political agenda.

This has nothing to do with Obamacare, but rather it's the usual game of blaming cost-cutting on Obamacare.

Teachers normally have insurance anyway so there's no additional burden. It's just they're being cheap and hiring part-timers to avoid benefits, a game that has been going on long before Obamacare.

But it's not just teachers, its a lot of business. The issue has been the impact and how many businesses have responded in the same way as the school district.

The issue is that businesses and governmental bodies are very fond of making cuts to benefits, wages, and all labor costs and then blaming it on whatever the current boogeyman is. Right now, it is Obamacare. Insurance companies are not happy and are fueling the misinformation distribution. They'd rather pay their PR people and lobbyists than do what they are contractually obligated to do: pay insurance claims in return for the VERY generous payments they receive. Look at the compensation insurance companies give their executives. Look at the money they pay for ads and other PR. Look at what they pay lobbyists and what they give in political contributions.

 

[coloradoatheist]

It IS gullibility: teachers ordinarily have health care as part of their compensation package. Obamacare has done NOTHING to change that fact. The rest is merely political grandstanding, something I've watched happen at school boards more than once, for a long time, on issues that have nothing to do with health care but rather some board members' political leanings. In fact, I am watching this happen in my own county right now. It is not Obamacare locally, but it is personal political agenda.

Teachers have had benefits paid for, but substitutes haven't. It's the mix that they use to cover their scheduling needs. So the question is how much is the school district hiring new teachers compared to covering their shortfall with part time labor?

This has nothing to do with Obamacare, but rather it's the usual game of blaming cost-cutting on Obamacare.

Teachers normally have insurance anyway so there's no additional burden. It's just they're being cheap and hiring part-timers to avoid benefits, a game that has been going on long before Obamacare.

But it's not just teachers, its a lot of business. The issue has been the impact and how many businesses have responded in the same way as the school district.

The issue is that businesses and governmental bodies are very fond of making cuts to benefits, wages, and all labor costs and then blaming it on whatever the current boogeyman is. Right now, it is Obamacare. Insurance companies are not happy and are fueling the misinformation distribution. They'd rather pay their PR people and lobbyists than do what they are contractually obligated to do: pay insurance claims in return for the VERY generous payments they receive. Look at the compensation insurance companies give their executives. Look at the money they pay for ads and other PR. Look at what they pay lobbyists and what they give in political contributions.

Of course, businesses have always had to pay X for the costs of the workers and they fight against it, however if a law comes in and makes costs X+10% or whatever it, it's going to changing their hiring decisions.

 

[Sabine Grant]

It IS gullibility: teachers ordinarily have health care as part of their compensation package. Obamacare has done NOTHING to change that fact. The rest is merely political grandstanding, something I've watched happen at school boards more than once, for a long time, on issues that have nothing to do with health care but rather some board members' political leanings. In fact, I am watching this happen in my own county right now. It is not Obamacare locally, but it is personal political agenda.

Teachers have had benefits paid for, but substitutes haven't. It's the mix that they use to cover their scheduling needs. So the question is how much is the school district hiring new teachers compared to covering their shortfall with part time labor?

This has nothing to do with Obamacare, but rather it's the usual game of blaming cost-cutting on Obamacare.

Teachers normally have insurance anyway so there's no additional burden. It's just they're being cheap and hiring part-timers to avoid benefits, a game that has been going on long before Obamacare.

But it's not just teachers, its a lot of business. The issue has been the impact and how many businesses have responded in the same way as the school district.

The issue is that businesses and governmental bodies are very fond of making cuts to benefits, wages, and all labor costs and then blaming it on whatever the current boogeyman is. Right now, it is Obamacare. Insurance companies are not happy and are fueling the misinformation distribution. They'd rather pay their PR people and lobbyists than do what they are contractually obligated to do: pay insurance claims in return for the VERY generous payments they receive. Look at the compensation insurance companies give their executives. Look at the money they pay for ads and other PR. Look at what they pay lobbyists and what they give in political contributions.

Of course, businesses have always had to pay X for the costs of the workers and they fight against it, however if a law comes in and makes costs X+10% or whatever it, it's going to changing their hiring decisions.

Considering that the AHCA employer's mandate concerns their having to provide Group Plans meeting the required minimum coverage under the AHCA and they are in NO way mandated to opt for Group Plans under the Silver, Gold and Platinum coverage while opting for the Bronze coverage plans, why such outcries of doom and loom on the part of businesses? Has anyone in fact taken the time to provide evidence that employers will be "harmed" by offering benefits under the equivalent of a Bronze plan coverage?

It seems to me that just about any rationalization is used by profit centered mentalities to justify their hiring decisions. Indeed, the current "boogieman" being the AHCA addressing the employer's mandate.

Have all those crying out "doom and loom" businesses considered that providing the required minimum coverage under the ACHA is bound to IMPROVE the overall morale of employees with the added benefit of the business having a much greater guarantee of employees/workers remaining healthy and productive rather than the current status of employees having been limited in their access to regular check ups, to preventative medicine, to emergent medicine resulting in workers/employees missing work due to untreated medical conditions.

It seems to remain a struggle in this nation to consider that a healthy crew makes a steady sailing ship. That the productivity of the working force is bound to be undermined if they remain limited in their access to necessary health care. That those limitations also affect the morale of the working force.